Small Sailboats and the Great Loop

[skylark]

I found this discussion on the right boat to use for the Great Loop:

http://www.captainjohn.org/GreatLoopboat.html

Captain John's conclusion is that a sailboat with an outboard is the ideal low-cost boat to do the Great Loop.  This is based both on boat purchase cost and fuel cost.

I am putting together a list of things that I would need to do to my boat (Tanzer 28) to spend a lot of time on the Great Loop, including the Bahamas.  I may be able to do this (financially) starting in Fall 2015.  The admiral seems interested and may cooperate.

Looking at the list, there are a few differences between setting her up for the Great Loop and for sailFar voyaging, but most things are the same.  The differences are related to convenience and comfort for long distance motoring.

Mast stands to hold the mast during times when passing through canals that have fixed low bridges (Chicago Ship Canal, Erie Canal, a number of Ontario canals).

Moving and anchoring every other day or so might mean an electric anchor winch would be nice, since I like my 36 pound plow for a good nights sleep.  Hauling it is good exercise, but...

A 10hp four stroke outboard with electric start and cockpit controls.

A second outboard bracket, it might be nice to have an auxiliary in case of motor problems but this is probably not feasible due to space on the transom and is belt and suspenders.  I could just switch out the dinghy motor when problems happen to the main motor.

I need to do a number of upgrades on my boat, since the last time I did major work on it was in about 2004:

new house batteries, bigger solar panel
check, replace rigging
large awning and bug screen, cushions to turn the cockpit into a shaded, screened lounge
new water tanks, water catchment system
GPS nav system
new dinghy, 2hp four stroke motor
composting toilet system (pail with urine separation)
lots of large pillows to make the interior more comfortable
new interior cushions and covers
build new table
new VHF with AIS
backup tillerpilot with remote to allow steering from under the awning in companionway
two bow anchor rollers with a proper chain locker instead of the deck hatch storage I have now
a coat of paint inside to make it a white interior

Some of these things are wants and not needs.  I could use my boat as is and make improvements along the way, but I can't do it financially yet, so I have time to make the boat more comfortable.  I also need to pass the admiral test.

So what would you do to your sailFar boat to make it a Great Looper?

[Captain Smollett]

GPS nav system

Thinking that The Great Loop is partly comprised of the ICW and indeed includes the ICW (and similar travel), this is the only one on your list that I question.

Of course, it does depend on what is meant by GPS Nav System.  I assume it means active chart plotting.

You mentioned sailing to the islands, but I'll leave that aside in order to make the following point.

For protected water "ditch" travel, I don't think a GPS is needed at all.  Not even a hand-held.  Navigation is pretty much a non-issue, even in crazy areas like Cape Fear River.

What you do NEED is a good set of binoculars.  A compass is very helpful.  There are stretches where the next aid is not visible due to distance...following a compass course for an hour is easy enough.

GPS's make convenient speed logs and track recorders, so I understand having them for these purposes. 

GPS is cool and all, and no one goes anywhere (even for day hikes it seems) without one nowadays, but just as a 'reality check,' if one cannot 'navigate' the ICW and a couple of rivers/canals, one should probably stay home.

(Not saying YOU should just stay home...just making a rhetorical point).

[s/v Faith]

Paul,

  I have not done the great loop, but I think it sounds like a great trip!  I bought the book "the Ten-Tom Nitty Gritty" and the trip looked infinitely doable.

  Add a couple of long boat hooks and lots of extra fenders.  Locking through headed up the river will be a big part of your daily experience.  Rigging fenders so they can be rolled up on deck without having to tie them and untie them all the time seems like a good idea.

  I would add a combination smoke detector and co alarm.  You are going to be doing a lot of motoring, it would be good to keep an eye on how much co is headed down the companionway.... I was suprised when mine would go off.... 

Fuel stowage seems like an issue, at least south of dermopolous (sp).  The tried and true stowing cans on deck would probably be more then enough.  I have looked at below decks stowage of extra gasoline, boats used to be built this way without blowing up regularly..ll. I bought a tank from a Pearson Triton, but sold it after I realized I was going to have to pretty much destroy my boat to get it into the cockpit locker.

  Being able to step and instep your mast yourself.  Faith has a very large, heavy mast for her size.  I have looked at a few steps with hinges, but I have not found one I like enough to pull they trigger on.  She needs to be re-rigged so I will need to make a decision in that.   I must admit I hate that Chicago can't get with the program enough to make a bridge high enough to let us pass under....  I wonder why that is?

  Vhf with AIS.  I have it, I bet that it would be a good thing for this trip.... The reason I think so is that if the tugs are running ais, you would know where they were and not be surprised on the blind turns headed up the river...  I know how hard it can be to stay out of these guys way on the ICW, I a sure it is much harder on the Tenn-Tom when they are pushing much larger rafts.  I remember riding the merchant ships summers growing up in Lousianna and being absolutely amazed how those guys would push huge rafts down the river (the Mississippi).

[Auspicious]

Fuel stowage

Bingo - first thing that occurred to me. Stopping for fuel is a huge time killer, and there are long stretches of the Mississippi and Tenn-Tom without options that don't include taxi cabs and jugs.

In my opinion you should be able to run three or four days between fuel stops.

[Jim_ME]

This seems like an interesting system for raising and lowering a hinged mast solo, including a crutch to hold the lowered mast. After lowering I assume that you could leave the raising/lowering pole/rig in place until you wanted to raise the mast.

[Captain Smollett]

This seems like an interesting system for raising and lowering a hinged mast solo, including a crutch to hold the lowered mast. After lowering I assume that you could leave the raising/lowering pole/rig in place until you wanted to raise the mast.

The Alberg 30 group has a tried and true "system" developed by an A-30 owner couple. I think, if memory serves, they developed it for sailing on the Erie Canal.

Some key features:

(1) No hinged mast or step...straight A-30 mast

(2) Probably a two person operation; I doubt one could it easily or safely.

(3) the pieces stow for use underway, though "stow" is a loose term sometimes.

Hinged mast raising lowering systems are probably "better," but this one is pretty kiss.  I have not done so yet, but plan to make an A-Frame like this for my boat.

A link:

Unstepping the A-30 Mast  The links on the right side of the page take one to the step-by-step pages.

(Yep, looks like it was developed for transit of Erie Canal)

[s/v Faith]

Have any of our folks here done the Great Loop?

  Seems like someone would hAve?

[Jim_ME]

Craig, I'm thinking that the Down East Circle Route seems like a less daunting alternative...
(although it doesn't provide the going south part for winter)

John, here's a clear video of what seems like a variation of the A30 (stationary bipod) method, except with a hinged mast base.

I had been thinking that I would use the method where the bipod pivots, but it seems like having it remain fixed may provide more control? And you don't have to rig up pivoting bases/connections on the bipod poles.


Just found this blog of a cruise of the Down East Circle Loop. Have only browsed a few pages so far, but it looks interesting.

[Captain Smollett]

John, here's a clear video of what seems like a variation of the A30 (stationary bipod) method, except with a hinged mast base.

The big advantage that I can that a pivoting base brings to the table is the ability to raise/lower alone.  The A-30 "fixed step" method requires at least two people.   But, for what it's worth...it's simpler, especially if someone already has a non-pivoting mast.

That dude sure made it look easy, and that's the name of the game with raising systems.

I had been thinking that I would use the method where the bipod pivots, but it seems like having it remain fixed may provide more control? And you don't have to rig up pivoting bases/connections on the bipod poles.

I tried a "pivoting A-frame" setup on my little boat, and abandoned it after one or two test tries.  It was just harder to engineer, at least for what I was doing.  Keep in mind that boat has a "3 stay rig," so the shrouds are swept quite a bit aft; I could not anchor the A Frame at the chainplates (the chain plates are not at the mast pivot point).

For a boat that has a set of chain plates at the pivot point, any of these systems will work well I think.  And, if one cannot pull the rope directly, there's always a sheet winch or trailer winch for mechanical advantage.

Also, weighed against the use of the system for a pure trailer sailed boat (as opposed to a cruising boat that mast raised/lowered only occasionally, like an Erie Canal transit) is the setup time.  My pivoting a-frame took too much time to set up and take down, and thus was not worth the trouble in the cost-benefit analysis.  Set-up time is less an issue for a mast-down cruise.

[SalientAngle]

this is a well executed time-lapse video of the locks on the erie canal posted by active captain
http://youtu.be/fU0LKx6ewYs

[s/v Faith]

Very cool video.  They need to get rid of those bridges and stuff......

;D

[Sunset]

My brother did the Mississippi a few years back, said he was glad he did it BUT would never do it again. The only real fuel stop he could find was in Memphis. He walked and carried fuel, along with talking a few river business into selling him fuel.
Tenn-Tom is the way to go, most all the marinas disappeared on the mississippi after the Tenn- Tom opened up.
I'm not saying the Tenn-Tom is the way to go because of the scenery or the adventure, but because of the lack of services.

[Jim_ME]

This may be the Just-in-Time Method of lowering the mast to tackle a bridge under sail power...  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YWyRA-eEG8

[SalientAngle]

and jim, this worked well
http://youtu.be/kiv0fxFcV3I

[skylark]

I found this video series on the Great Loop

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq9L1XsnyKc

[SalientAngle]

I found this video series on the Great Loop

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq9L1XsnyKc

Great (loop) Find, skylark, grog !!!

[rorik]

  ... Add a couple of long boat hooks and lots of extra fenders  ....

FWIW I got snap shackles with eyes for my fenders. With a stopper knot on a line longer than needed, they can adjust to any height and they're really easy to clip on to almost anything.

[DarrenC]

I've actually thought about this quite a bit - the loop is one of the most realizable cruising dreams for almost anyone, and Carita could practically provision and do the trip right now without further investment.

As huge a sacrilege as it is to even say this, I think I would strip the rig and leave it at home, leave the bimini permanently set up and just enjoy my spectacular little high thrust 9.9 pushing me along at 1/3 throttle to the tune of about a half gallon of gas per hour. 

With the deck space opened up my little 26 footer could become an incredibly spacious, comfortable  and liveable frugal trawler.  Of course the HUGE mental obstacle to overcome with this plan is that you have to REALLY not care what other people think.  Really.  People can get very defensive and even nasty when they discover you've found a way to beat the system and enjoy the same experience as them for pennies on the dollar.

I believe the "have my cake and eat it too" scenario would be to find a way to freight forward to rig to Florida and incorporate some sailing through the Winter, maybe even throwing in the Bahamas for fun.