Alternator warning buzzer

[Grime]

My alternator warning buzzer and light never goes off after I start the engine. The belt is tight. This all started after I installed my solar panels. I only have one battery at this time.

The solar panel has a controller but not one of the good ones like a friend on mine has. The alternator does not go to the controller it goes to the red on off both switch.

I layman's language what could be the problem? What do I need to check or change?

[Tim]

I am not much of a diagnostician without being there, but if it is set up for two batteries, could it be because you have only one?

[s/v Faith]

Do you have an installed voltmeter, or a hand held?  You can check to see if your alternator is charging by checking the voltage before you start the motor (something like 12.2v) and then after you start the motor while it is running.... The voltage should increase while running, something more then 13.4v, more like 13.8 or even as high as the high 14s...

If the voltage stays the same or goes down when the motor is running, check and clean the connections on the alternator, and if good pull it off and take it to an auto parts store.  Many have test benches where they can test it for you for free.

[SalientAngle]

do you happen to know what the absorption setpoints of your two regulators are??? A conflict is always possible...

quick edit: have you put a dc load on your circuits and observed the same?

[SalientAngle]

let me explain my thoughts: the solar panels have a regulator and the altenator has a regulator. They both measure the voltage at the terminals of your single battery. But, what I am making a swag at cause of alternator warning is basically that the alternator regulator is now sensing not only the terminal voltage but that of the solar panels... $0.02

[Grime]

let me explain my thoughts: the solar panels have a regulator and the altenator has a regulator. They both measure the voltage at the terminals of your single battery. But, what I am making a swag at cause of alternator warning is basically that the alternator regulator is now sensing not only the terminal voltage but that of the solar panels... $0.02

That's what I've been thinking. Just don't know enough to correct the problem. Talked to CJ awhile ago and he reminded me that when we moved the boat to Port Lavaca the alternator warning buzzer was buzzing. We turned the key off. Once a diesel starts it doesn't need elec so there was no problem starting it the next day.  I tighten up the belt and that seem to correct it.

I could add another battery and just hook it up to the alternator/ starter. As much as we have to motor here it would top  the battery off with out any problem.

I will do also as Faith suggested and run a few test the next time at the boat.

Thanks guys for the advice.
David

[cap-couillon]

What make and model alternator? Internal or external regulator? Less expensive "automotive" type alternators with internal regulators, sometimes use the "idiot light" as a ballast for the field. If the field coils are not energized the circuit will feed battery voltage to ground causing the light to go on. Sounds like the above opinons (and your own) are correct, but tough to trouble shoot without additional info. Maybe a simple sketch of how the system is wired, and info on alternator/ regulator as well as make and model of solar controler.

[Grime]

What make and model alternator? Internal or external regulator? Less expensive "automotive" type alternators with internal regulators, sometimes use the "idiot light" as a ballast for the field. If the field coils are not energized the circuit will feed battery voltage to ground causing the light to go on. Sounds like the above opinons (and your own) are correct, but tough to trouble shoot without additional info. Maybe a simple sketch of how the system is wired, and info on alternator/ regulator as well as make and model of solar controler.

I'm going to sound real smart here. Not.  ???
Don't know
Don't know
Don't know

Sunday is the earliest I'll be back to the boat.

[cap-couillon]

 ;D

I will be around.... Post what you can, when you can. How do you like your Watkins? Wanted one myself, but the Solitaire was the right time at the right price. Little small, but ok for a single-hander.

Like I said, if you can poke up a simple diagram as to how she is wired, along with the details, it would be a great help in solving the issue.

David
(aka Cap' Couillon)

[Grime]

David,

I like her pretty well so far. We had a lot of work to do on her before we could take her back out. The compression post was rotten. Got all that fixed now.

Here is how she is supposed to be wired. The controller runs just to the battery.  There is one of them red on off both switches.  I'll have to chase down the wirring.



Link didn't work would be in source code tho.  Yahoo groups code.

[SalientAngle]

let me explain my thoughts: the solar panels have a regulator and the altenator has a regulator. They both measure the voltage at the terminals of your single battery. But, what I am making a swag at cause of alternator warning is basically that the alternator regulator is now sensing not only the terminal voltage but that of the solar panels... $0.02

That's what I've been thinking. Just don't know enough to correct the problem. Talked to CJ awhile ago and he reminded me that when we moved the boat to Port Lavaca the alternator warning buzzer was buzzing. We turned the key off.

It could be a simple matter of corrosion on contacts. It may also be a faulty partially blown fuse from alternator to the evil switch. With volmeter in hand, you will be able to discover if it is a ground fault. Good luck. Cheers !!!

[Grime]

Tomorrow I'll check the alternator itself. The starter was bad and I had it rebuilt. The alternator could possibly be bad. Wouldn't surprise me.

[Grime]

I'm not sure it I understand anything now.

I pulled the alternator and in doing so I keep getting sparks if it touched any metal. Like is was not ground correctly. I disconnected the buzzer wire and this stopped. Then I notice the red heavy wire was not connected to anything except the alternator. But  it had a lighter wire that ran to a 20A fuse mounted on the engine. From the fuse block it runs into a bundle of wires that run up to the switch.  The black wire runs to ground somewhere. Ive not found it for sure.

On the back of the alternator is 3 terminals E for - B for alarm and L for +

When I took the alternator off to have it checked the Red wire was connected to E and the Black wire was connected to L. To me this would be wrong. Red to positive and Black to negative would be correct. 

To see if the alternator was any good I took it to Auto Zone. They couldn't test is because it didn't come off a car and they just didn't know how to do anything with out a listing in their computer. Same with O'Riley Auto parts. Hopefully NAPA can test it.

I don't understand why someone would hook it up wrong. I check the manual more than once to see if I missed understood. If I could figure out a way to post a screen shot of the diagram maybe someone could explain it to me better. 

[cap-couillon]

Assuming you have stock Yanmar 8 or 12 hp....

Hitachi alternator, negative ground, internal alternator. 35 Amp output
Wiring diagram (Click to Enlarge)


Correct hookup:

B terminal to battery. Usually connected to large battery terminal on the starter solenoid and thence to the battery switch. (Red)

E terminal to ground (Earth) Usually connected to ground lug on block, but could be connected direct to Negative terminal of Battery. (Black)

L terminal to alarm lamp (charging) via 20A fuse. This wire is hot when the engine switch is in the on position. As well as controlling the lamp and audible alarm, it also provides excitation voltage to the alternator. As in most "Motorola style" internal regulators, the lamp or a ballast  resistor must be present in the exciter circuit in order for the regulator to function properly. (White/Red Stripe)

From your description it would appear that the Alternator is in fact hooked up INCORRECTLY. While there is a good chance you may have cooked a diode by the fact it has been cooked up incorrectly, there is no harm in rewiring correctly and trying it out.

If it is fried, a new alternator ($135) will probably be as cheap as a rebuild. Starter rebuilds are considerably simpler and therefor a better bet than new. Alternator rebuilds in a reputable shop are not cheap, and usually only cost effective when you get into heavier high output machines.

Solar panel controller seems to be coincidental, not a root cause of alternator problems.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions

Cap' Couillon

[Grime]

Thanks David

Since I have it off I'll take it by NAPA and have them check it out.

Your explanation is great I just have to get it figured out in my head what you are saying.

I have a white/red wire that runs to the starter. This has me confused. The previous owner sure has thing messed up.

It will take me a little while but I'll get her straighten out.

[cap-couillon]

The previous owner sure has thing messed up.

It would seem so.....

Quick question, does the wiring harness look to be original? or does it appear to have been added onto over the years?
The white/red wire going to the starter solenoid (little can on top of the starter) should be coming from the "push to start switch" on the engine panel. Thats not the stock color code, but the solenoid should have only two terminals. One with the heavy cable coming from the battery switch (could have other wires on that same terminal) and one with a single wire coming from the start switch which engages the solenoid.

Your biggest concern is the three wires to the alternator.

E termnal goes to ground. (black wire? confirm with voltmeter it goes to ground)

B terminal goes to the battery. Either direct, via the starter solenoid battery terminal, or to the battery switch. This should be a fairly heavy wire, probably red.

L terminal goes to the warning lamp/buzzer circuit on the engine panel in the cockpit. Should be white with red stripe but might be previous owner swapped the engine start switch wire (normally solid white for your engine) with the lamp/buzzer wire (white/red) at the cockpit end. The colors don't matter as long as each end is in the right place. A snapshot of the back of the engine panel in the cockpit would help.. or just run a continuity test from the lamp to the extra wire end . (After the red and black are eliminated) .

Muddle along my man...  Give me a shout if you get really stuck. 

[CharlieJ]

Remembered after I left your boat- Rachel and James had difficulty getting an alternator checked in Port L. She wound  up going to Victoria.. They should be back tomorrow, so you could ask where.