Any thoughts on locating a hull ID?

[DarrenC]

Hello folks,

While I am so far thrilled with Carita after the short season we've spent together, I am having trouble gaining any provenance on her.  Online info on the Annapolis is scant at best, and how I wish this craft could talk so I could learn her particular story - specifically how she ended up in Canada and who took such care of her in the past.  

While those stories will likely remain untold, I would at least like to be able to discern an accurate year for her.  The problem is that I can't even locate a hull ID plate.  There is nothing in the usual spot on the transom, and I have looked anywhere I thought likely and even unlikely - insode of every locker, under berths, etc.  No luck.

What I do know about her is that these boats were produced both by Tidewater Yachts and Moorman Manufacturing.  I believe there was even overlapping years of manufacture, although from available information I can't be sure.  Given her coach roof/portlight design I know that she was one of the Moorman builds.  My mainsail bears the Annapolis insignia and sail # 12.

Is there a chance anyone out there knows more about the Annapolis, or maybe just has an idea of somewhere I haven't thought to look for an ID plate?

Thanks so much!

[CharlieJ]

If built before 1972, there won't be one. HIN's weren't used prior to that.

[DarrenC]

Thanks Charlie - I did know that about HINs and have considered that as a possibility.  Given the condition she's in I can't imagine she could be pre-1972, although one never knows...

[Jim_ME]

  What I do know about her is that these boats were produced both by Tidewater Yachts and Moorman Manufacturing.  I believe there was even overlapping years of manufacture, although from available information I can't be sure.  Given her coach roof/portlight design I know that she was one of the Moorman builds.  My mainsail bears the Annapolis insignia and sail # 12.
  Is there a chance anyone out there knows more about the Annapolis, or maybe just has an idea of somewhere I haven't thought to look for an ID plate?

Welcome Darren.

In one of my British-built boats, there is a small metal plate with hull number bonded to the hull inside the cockpit locker.

Have you seen the ad for this Annapolis 26 in Baltimore, Maryland?
http://www.sailingtexas.com/sannapolis26a.html

Reported to be "1973 Annapolis 26, Hull #9"

Since that is so close to your hull# (presumed from your sail number, if it is original to your boat), I'd expect your boat to be about the same year.

However, if the boat in the ad is in fact a 1973, it should have the transom HIN, and if yours is slightly newer, it should have the HIN, too.

Sometimes sellers get the year of their boat wrong, and my experience (although not based on very many instances) has been that the advertized year is a year or several newer than the actual boat.

This website says...
http://hinvalid.com/hinfo.php
Does every boat have a HIN?
As per the USCG, all 1973 and newer model boats have HINs. If your boat is older, it probably does not have a HIN. This may be particularly relevant if your boat was built in this period of transition.

The Sailboat Data website pages...
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=5586
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=606

The latter page includes this note...
"There was a later version (1972?) with a different coach roof. It is thought that these were built by Roger Moorman (builder of the MOBJACK 17)."

That is close to the year to the boat in the ad (1973). It wouldn't be surprising that a boat built in 1972 with no HIN, might not be sold and put into service (registered) until the following year.

If Sailboat Data is correct that Moorman started building the boat in 1972, it does seem likely that they would probably complete hull number 13 in that first year, unless they began production fairly late in that year.

[DarrenC]

Hi Jim,

I have definitely seen those sites you linked, and have tried to string together some similar conclusions, although I am confused in one area with no apparent resolution.

The 1973 boat listed in the for sale ad is a Tidewater hull.  Where my deductive reasoning runs into trouble is the question of whether Tidewater and Moorman would have had their own chronological hull numbering system or if they would have co-ordinated manufacturing data.  Does anyone know what the standard practice is when multiple manufacturers produce the same boat?

Thanks for the impromptu research!

[Jim_ME]

In some cases the hull molds are acquired by another builder.

An example is the Allied Greenwich 24 molds went to Cape Dory an the hull freeboard height was increased (which also increased the hull LOA a bit too) and a new cabin trunk mold was made and the boat went into production as the Cape Dory 25. I assume that in this case, since it was a different builder and boat size, that the hull numbers started over. Even though George Stadel is credited for both designs.

See...
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=331
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=366

Later on, in 1979 or 1980 Cape Dory redesigned the CD25 cabin trunk, I believe with Carl Alberg, who had done similar trunks on other Cape Dory boats (CD25D, CD26. CD27). I believe that these boats continued using the same hull numbers.

In this example, there was no possibility of overlapping builders, since there was only the one set of molds.

It seems possible that your boat is new version and also a continuation of the original builder's hull numbers, in 1972 but not new enough to have an HIN.

On this page...
http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=55354
from a post dated from 2004, someone has Annapolis 26 Hull #11 and gives his email as jsmith@jharms.com, so you might be able to still contact him and get some additional information.

This website...
http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/hin.htm
states that...
All boats manufactured or imported on or after November 1, 1972 must bear a HIN.

this website...
http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=131481
includes a member...
Mookie B
S/V Ariel
1978 Annapolis 26
Hull #62

So that would mean that over those intervening 5 or 6 years, only about 50 additional boats were built, if a continuation of the original hull numbers, and still not a lot even if the hull numbers were started over after the different builder/cabin trunk modifications were done. 

[rorik]

Is there any way to trace it back through the motor vehicle/vessel licensing department?

[Jim_ME]

Is there any way to trace it back through the motor vehicle/vessel licensing department?

This occurred to me, too. May be worth a try.

I was trying to think of a boat that had been built by different builders over time as an example to see how they handled the hull numbers. Thought of the Alberg Sea Sprite 23, built since the late 50s by several including Wickford, Sailstar, Pearson, and most recently C. E. Ryder.

Even then, from the association website, the list of hull numbers is not so straightforward...
http://www.seaspriteassociation.com/history/sea-sprite-23/
"As a non-official study, looking at the boats registered in our database, it appears that there were about 534 Sea Sprite 23s built. There are no hull numbers registered between 10 and 101 or between 339 and 501 and we know from Chad that 786 was the last boat built by C. E. Ryder."

[DarrenC]

Is there any way to trace it back through the motor vehicle/vessel licensing department?

Ahh...therein lies yet another rub - In Ontario there is no legal requirement to register a pleasure craft under 10HP regardless of size, so it is quite common to see sailboats without numbers.  Any given boat may have passed through dozens of hands without any government documentation.

I knew from the beginning that I wanted to register Carita, if for no other reason than to have something more than a handwritten bill of sale as proof of ownership.  I was worried this would be a hassle, but as it turns out my home marina is a designated government customs dock and it was a simple matter for the inspector to have a look, verify there was no obvious HIN anywhere and issue me a license based just on what I had.  Being as how we straddle the Ontario/NY border and will likely want to visit the 1000 islands in the coming season, I feel much more secure with those numbers on the bow and some documentation on board