The "Elimination of Misery" Principal.

[s/v Faith]

The "Elimination of Misery" Principal. ^TM[/b]

One of the ideas that I believe is important when considering the "how small / how simple / how far" question is what I call the "elimination of misery principal".   I have thought about this thread in the context of a couple of threads recently, and wanted to bring it up.

The essence is to avoid things that are not necessary, while targeting specific things that are likely to make one miserable.

Basically, the idea is that there are compromises that are not only reasonable, but necessary for success and they are not the same for everyone.  Many happily do without refrigeration, or other "luxuries" and adjust nicely.  There are others for whom such choices would quickly cause cruising to not only be "not fun" but miserable.

Often, in our discussions anyway, this idea is quickly sacrificed on the altar of "KISS".. Now, much of our discussions here are centered on solutions that allow a degree of elimination of misery, while avoiding overly complex systems... Good stuff!

One can set about cruising, and take a "Lin and Larry" approach.  Set up your bucket, your wash basin, your galley without refrigeration.... BUT!  If you (or your mate) are miserable, you will not be at it long.

KISS rightly argues for simplicity, many folks stop cruising because the cost and strain of big boats and complex systems simply suck the joy out of being "out there".  Fixing one head is a chore, fixing 3 heads that all break at once can cause someone to just throw in the towel (or go broke!).

 For example, Pat mentioned one of her priorities for a boat is the ability to take a shower, in a separate shower in the head.

 Now, many of us have our various approaches to this problem and few of us just go around stinky (ok, maybe that is debatable).  ;)   Obviously, having a separate shower, and the pressure water system that supports it (and likely a water heater) add a level of complexity to a boat.... But here is the thing... If someone is miserable not being able to take a shower, how long are they likely to want to do "this"?

[s/v Faith]

It might seem a stretch, but;

"....What shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"

 The purpose of this thread is to acknowledge that this applies at BOTH ends of the "KISS" spectrum.  Set up an overly complicated boat, that is too big and expensive so you end up giving up?  You loose.  Likewise I submit that if you make the wrong sacrifices, and find you are miserable and give up the result is the same.

It is important to figure out what is really important for you.  There are some things that I believe are pretty standard...  Give me a comfortable berth so I can sleep well, good ground tackle for the same reason.  

One person may be perfectly happy washing dishes in a basin in the cockpit, while someone else may find this to be so distasteful they dread washing dishes.. Subsequently they don't enjoy meals... If this "misery" is significant enough for them, they may not want to do this for long.

DarrenC posted;  The liveaboard dream vs. being part of a happy couple.
he discusses the very real considerations involved in finding ways for a couple to cruise together.  This is a great thread, and I believe that figuring out how to eliminate misery is an important part of makng that happen.


 "

[s/v Faith]

What compromises have you made on your boat to put this into practice?

What factors either are (or have in the past) made you or your crew miserable?

[Frank]

Old days: porta pottie under Vberth...definate no no for me. Some things are best not shared.
recent:Vicky/I and a 77lb Golden on 23ft for 3mths. Simply could not move without others moving 1st. A lil too much togetherness  ;D
My priorities now:
private head with shower (shower while sitting on "head-lid down" is fine)
2 settee's.....both can read on rain days
easy on/off (the low freeboard on Ariel and CP23 was great!)
some standing headroom
good ventilation
shallow draft! Prefer 3ft 6in or LESS (Keys and/or Bahamas)(WAY less stress!)

My preferences are:
outboard (anyone that has had inboard issues understands)
solar
engel (stress free refridgeration)

[DarrenC]

I'm sure we all say this, but I really would like to consider myself a man of simple pleasures.  A perfect example is just last night when I had the rare occasion to have the house entirely to myself - 2500 square feet to roam around in and no shortage of available entertainment, electronic and otherwise.  Nobody to account to for how I spend my time except myself.  How did I avail myself of this opportunity?  I made supper, washed my few dishes and spent the night on top of my mattress with a single bedside lamp reading my old Power Squadron piloting textbook - truly content.  I've been that way as long as I can remember whether it was wrapped up in a sleeping bag in the cuddy of my parent's first powercruiser or snuggled up in a tent listening to the rain and wind all around.

Whether I'm an old soul or just overly romantic for the old ways I don't know, but the idea of being completely self sufficient and the resulting freedom of being able to do what I want, go where I want and truly be at the helm of my own life without worrying about any quid pro quo is a constantly burning fire in my belly that I cannot extinguish.  In Herreshoff's tome The Compleat Cruiser, reading Weldon's philosophy on building and sailing Rozinante brings me to tears if I'm alone.  I'm not kidding.

That being said, in truth the biggest misery factor for me is potential lonliness, so I need to take the Admiral's comfort and happiness into consideration if I'm to avoid becoming a grizzled olt salt muttering to myself (and answering).  She's currently pleased with the amenities level of the boat, although she often admires and asks questions about larger craft and their 'goodies', and I'm certain that she's going to require much more if she is ever going to consider a boat as her one and only home.  A sticky situation at best when I want nothing more than to downsize and simplify.  For now all I can do is take it day by day, use the next season or two to constantly practice my technology-free seamanship and get her out as much as possible so hopefully she will be able to decide what her own misery factors are. 

[Godot]

So far:

Like Faith, a separate head is important to me if there is anyone else aboard.

A couple decent pots and pans for the galley. Well, at least one good pot and one good frying pan. I've spent time using cheap camping gear. I don't like it at all. I have some heavy nesting stainless cookware now. Not exactly cheap; but as a one time expense not exactly expensive, either. Cooking is now more of a joy. Doing dishes still sucks, though.

A double bunk. Pull out is fine (and what I currently have, more or less permanently extended). Being on the boat can be quite romantic. To me it's important to have a comfortable place to express that romance. When single this was less of a deal; but even then I wasn't planning on being single indefinitely. Also, a second bunk (a single is fine). Sometimes it is just too darn hot for togetherness.

SHEETS for the bunk (and blankets in the cold months). Sleeping bags are OK for a weekend, or probably while at sea (limited experience, here). Otherwise they just annoy me to no end. I want a bunk I can make up, at least while in port.

Tiller pilot. Sure, sheet to tiller can work, uses no electricity, and can be fun to play with. But the simple convenience of just having the boat steer itself, without a lot of muss, on a long day on the water greatly reduces misery. I don't think I'd be happy cruising without some sort of simple to set up self steering. If I were crossing oceans I'd probably put a steering vane in this category (or at least spend more time play with the sheet to tiller stuff).

Electric fans. It gets hot and miserable without them. Along the same lines, a wind scoop for the fore-hatch.

A good rowing dinghy. I really need to get my exercise or I get irritable (and fat). On shore I do a lot of hiking. On the water I like to take the dinghy out for a row every day. Eventually I'll get an outboard for it (maybe just an electric...we'll see) for those times when the dinghy is a commuting tool, not a source of pleasure. I'm hoping my ugly but practical porta-bote stores well on deck. I really don't want to be restricted to an inflatable, no matter how practical it is (the thought gives me twitches).

A dodger. Helps provide shade in the brutal sunshine, shelter in the rain (the hatch can stay open...luxury!), warmth in the cold, and a reasonably secure way to store things close at hand. Some people hate them (they damage the lines of the boat, and can sometimes get in the way). I love mine. The misery it reduces is sporadic; but definitely noticeable.

[DarrenC]

A couple decent pots and pans for the galley. Well, at least one good pot and one good frying pan. I've spent time using cheap camping gear. I don't like it at all. I have some heavy nesting stainless cookware now. Not exactly cheap; but as a one time expense not exactly expensive, either. Cooking is now more of a joy. Doing dishes still sucks, though.

Ditto on the good cookware!  In our canoe camping days I went through the whole modern ultralight/compact phase until I realized I was replacing gear every couple of trips, especially that ridiculous aluminum cookset with the combination lid/frypan - just awful.  A cast iron skillet and two nesting stainless steel billies were worth twice their extra heft when we factored in how much more we enjoyed cooking and eating.

[DarrenC]

It just occourred to me that this thread could really go in an exciting direction - by way of previous successful collaborative efforts such as the redoubtable Folkboat and the SCAMP cruising dinghy, with enough input from like-minded individuals and enough common ground as to "must haves", the concept/design talent pool we have here could potentially develop an enitrely new one-design class - the "SailFar Cruiser"!

Please - everyone who reads this take a couple of minutes and toss in some honest input.  I'm very interested to read all the results! 

[Godot]

An interesting concept I think I saw on Mimi Rose (member: marujo_sortudo), although perhaps it was someone else, when they last came through Baltimore was a custom fit space for their cookware. Instead of bouncing around under the sink or in a cabinet, it had an out of the way, but easily accessed place that securely held at least a big pot and I think some other cookware. Of course, Mimi Rose is a custom build. If I were to build a new boat from scratch, and you never know, I would definitely look into something like that. I wish I had taken some photos.

[s/v Faith]

[quote author]=DarrenC link=topic=4195.msg46353#msg46353 date=1394812752]
It just occourred to me that this thread could really go in an exciting direction.....

.....Please - everyone who reads this take a couple of minutes and toss in some honest input.  I'm very interested to read all the results! 
[/quote]

Grog!  A round for all to lubricate your tongues!

[CharlieJ]

A couple decent pots and pans for the galley. Well, at least one good pot and one good frying pan. I've spent time using cheap camping gear. I don't like it at all. I have some heavy nesting stainless cookware now. Not exactly cheap; but as a one time expense not exactly expensive, either. Cooking is now more of a joy. Doing dishes still sucks, though.

Ditto on the good cookwarece !  In our canoe camping days I went through the whole modern ultralight/compact phase until I realized I was replacing gear every couple of trips, especially that ridiculous aluminum cookset with the combination lid/frypan - just awful.  A cast iron skillet and two nesting stainless steel billies were worth twice their extra heft when we factored in how much more we enjoyed cooking and eating.

I also carry a small Wok. I find it very handy. This in addition to the 4 qt pressure cooker that's ALWAYS aboard. One nice thing about the pressure cooker, even when no cooking under pressure, is that the lid locks on. I once had a pot of spaghetti sauce dumped all over the sole (of a 35 foot trimaran) by an idiot ferry skipper who passed us about 10  feet off, throwing about a 4 foot wake  >:(

Pics- shrimp sauteed in beer and Tony Chachere's Creole seasoning, and served with rice on the bridge deck

Tony's is a staple- don't leave home without it. Even found Mexican cooks using it down in Isla Mujeres ;)

[DarrenC]

Where does everyone "stand" on the matter of headroom?

I've heard it said that anything between comfortable sitting and 'true' standing headroom is not only a waste, but unhealthy as it promotes folks to try and stand, leading to stooping and general poor posture.  I can see the wisdom in this since sadly I am one of the exceptions at 76" tall and even Carita's 6' headroom at her highest point is a teaser at best.  In order for me to have true standing headroom I would need to move up to quite a large boat, while maybe something where I could sit up straight with a few inches to spare would be cozy without being claustrophobic and lend itself to a prettier, lower windage coachroof.

[Tim]

The "separate" head was the motivation for a complete rebuild of the Ariel interior so that was definitely a priority. In doing so I have pretty much eliminated the VBerth as a sleeping area, but lengthened and made the quaterberths more usable. sink and stove are perpendicular to the center line for safety.
Fortunately I am not that tall, so the standing room in the Ariel is fine, because it is now a must in any boat I get also.

[s/v Faith]

The "separate" head was the motivation for a complete rebuild of the Ariel interior so that was definitely a priority. In doing so I have pretty much eliminated the VBerth as a sleeping are, but lengthened an made the quaterberths more usable. sink and stove are perpendicular to the center line for safety.
Fortunately I am not that tall, so the standing room in the Ariel is fine, because it is now a must in any boat I get also.

Excellent point,

  Some things necessary for the elimation of misery may be simple...  Bug screens, a blanket... Others require major modification or sometimes complication.

  If you have to knock back a bulkhead to be able to sleep comfortably... I say do it.  Living without refrigeration is really not all that bad, And can be managed... But for some buying an engle and a solar panel makes the difference between having a good time and not.

[s/v Faith]

....

A dodger. Helps provide shade in the brutal sunshine, shelter in the rain (the hatch can stay open...luxury!), warmth in the cold, and a reasonably secure way to store things close at hand. Some people hate them (they damage the lines of the boat, and can sometimes get in the way). I love mine. The misery it reduces is sporadic; but definitely noticeable.

Faith is a very good sailing boat.  I could likely sail without an engine, and I likely would if I had to choose between a dodger and a motor.

I don't care how good your foul weather gear is, going to weather without a dodger wears a person out!  That terrible trip I made delivering that Bene to Columbia was made many times worse for lack of a dodger.

I will add a Bimini to that if you are sailing in the south....  Bake in the sun during the summer and you are either a "mad dog, Englishmen"... or at least a hot and sweaty mess!

[CharlieJ]

posted from the boat.

I think I'd give up the mainsail before I gave up the bimini!!!

Beside shade, my solar panel is up there.

[Travelnik]

I'm 6' tall, so I have standing headroom through the cabin until just before the head in Travelnik, but that height also makes the legroom in the tiny enclosed head a bit cramped.

So, I'm putting a shower pan/sump in between the head and hanging locker. That will give some leg room, plus an enclosed sitting/kneeling shower. Since we are planning to spend a lot of time on the ICW and coastal areas, nude solar showers on deck may not be practical. (Don't wanna scare the ladies, ya know?  ;))

The hanging locker opposite of the head will be changed to an on demand propane water heater/water tank area, and a door added to close the area off from the main cabin. The head door already closes off the V-berth. I will build the water tank with a deck fill that will be able to catch rain water, and that water will be mainly for cooking and cleaning.

I will be adding a propane stove in the galley, but I will keep the sea-swing as a back-up to use in adverse weather situations.

The quarter berth/settees are 6'8", so that leaves good sitting/sleeping room, and the 6'3" V-berth will probably be used for storage, plus, there is a ton of storage in the area under the cockpit where an inboard engine would be if I had one.

Anyway, those are my planned comforts in a 22' boat.

[CharlieJ]

Couple of things in this subject line.

Craig- I'd love to have a dodger on Tehani- have as yet not been able to figure how to install one that didn't make going forward hazardous. But I'm still looking. Been a couple of times it would have made things MUCH better.

When I was looking to upgrade from the 21 footer, I wanted just a couple of things.. Standing headroom was one- being able to stand becomes a really nice thing after several weeks aboard, Herreshoff not withstanding :D

The other things were, tiller steering, outboard power, and a separate head compartment.

I got two of those three- she has a tiller and an outboard. But also has the "head under the bed" set up. Truthfully, after sailing the boat full time  from July, 2005, through December 2011, it really was no problem. I can count on one hand the number of times someone had to use the head, while the other was sleeping, and those usually only in the mornings when someone was being a lazy bum ;) Just never ever was a problem.

People have said "no privacy", to which I reply, on boats the size of Tehani, modesty and privacy are mostly in your head- learn to ignore things ;)

One other thing- the boat started out with a porta potty. The places set up to dump those are few and far between, and the attitudes of many marinas made that less than pleasant, if not downright uncomfortable to dump. I've even been told it was illegal to dump into a marina head ( it's not), so while at anchor in Boot Key harbor, I bought a newer MSD, and set that up to be pumped out. Shoulda started that way!!! So much more pleasant, so much less hassle and few serious costs. Many places have free, or subsidized, and most that did charge, charged inn the range of $5 per. Many places with mooring fields had pump out boats which came to the boat once a week and pumped, as a part of your mooring (or dinghy dock) fees. VERY worth while.

Draw back is mainly that in places such as the Bahamas there are no pump out places (except one in Nassau) so you must be able to deal with it on your own.

The new composting heads really haven't been that wide spread for people to know how to deal with them. Seems like a great idea, but all of them are just simply too tall to fit aboard my boat

[Frank]

Great thread. I totally agree with a dodger!!!
Even my lil Suncat has one.

"don't leave home without one" !!!   

I honestly couldn't imagine cruising without

[skylark]

Misery #1: Sunburn.  I have a dodger but no bimini yet.  The main sheet is connected to the center of the floor of the cockpit, so I need to figure out how to install a bimini without interference.  I think it would make a huge difference in quality of life.

2. Cold feet.  Warm slippers or insulated boot inserts in cold weather.  I also have a diesel heater, which makes the boat liveable if it is over 40F.  But even with the heater my feet get cold unless I wear slippers.

3. Uncomfortable seating.  I have a hammock that goes from corner to corner across the cabin.  A luxury and very high priority.  I was thinking about building a post and table in the cabin to provide a good handhold, but that got nixed when I realized it would interfere with the hammock.  I need more pillows to allow lounging on the settee and in the cockpit.  It is kind of straight up and down sitting as is.  Pillows would allow more slouched sitting.

4. Uncertainty at anchor.  I need a bow roller and modern anchor of about 30 pounds.  In order to sleep at anchor, you need what you need to keep from dragging, plus a big additional amount to feel secure.  Right now I have a 25lb Claw, which is a good anchor, but I would sleep better with a 33lb Rocna or Manson.  I have a 36lb Plow, but it is too heavy for me to hand over hand without a bow roller.  I guess if I had a bow roller, I think I could lift a 36lb anchor and the Plow would be enough anchor for me. 

5. Convenient head.  I have a portapotty, which is OK but I try not to use it.  Which sort of defeats the purpose of having a head.  I am looking at C-Head, which is a composting head with urine separation.  I could probably just set up a pail composting head and use a pee bottle as much as possible.  Not sure which way to go on this.  If it was just me a pail would do, but if I want to civilize the boat to attract a female, a C-Head is probably the way to go. 

6. Motor Controls.  I have an outboard on a bracket, and a boat with a high freeboard.    In order to start the motor, I have to get down on my knees in the cockpit and reach over the transom to set the choke and pull the cord.  It is a pain to reach down to adjust the throttle or shift.  I have added pvc pipe extensions for the throttle and shifter, so I can adjust them from the top of the transom.  But I would like motor controls where I could adjust the motor while still watching traffic ahead of me.  At least I would like to adjust the throttle and shift.  I don't care so much about starting the motor remotely, although sometimes in heavy waves it is a pain to lean over the transom and reach down to the motor.  I am afraid I will lose my glasses, balance or hat.

So my list of things I need to avoid misery:

Bimini
Slippers
Pillows
Bow Roller
C-Head
Motor Controls