The "Elimination of Misery" Principal.

[Kettlewell]

When you have two people onboard you find your elimination-of-misery requirements grow exponentially, and may conflict. For example, one person's hot shower is another person's afternoon lost spent fixing the pressure water pump. One person's beloved tiller is another person's shin smasher. Etc. For me it comes down to some very basic things that have not been mentioned: A boat that sails like a witch so I can go anywhere, anytime, in any weather. A very large and comfortable navigation station down below that also serves as my office, repair station for small stuff, and general work space. Comfortable sea berths that hold you in place, are near the center of motion on the boat, are parallel to the fore and aft axis, allow you to lie down with your head forward, are somewhat out of the traffic flow, and have some decent ventilation. A boat with very low external maintenance--no teak, no fiddly wood decoration, no intricate painting or designs that require careful work, a bottom that is easy to get at and can be painted in a few hours, etc. As shallow draft as possible. An air draft of under 60 feet, but preferably under 50 feet. Ventilation that works even when sailing offshore. A safe and easy way to carry the dinghy onboard. No integrated anything--I don't want the failure of one piece of electronics to effect any other piece of electronics. A powerful manual anchor windlass (almost unavailable now). I would love but have never had an efficient refrigeration system, so I could live with a well-insulated ice box for when ice is available. Personally, I would be fine without refrigeration, but not my partner. Same with a kero cooker--I'm fine with one, but not the partner.

[rorik]

During the overly long refit of Mathilda - I've settled on trying to keep things as simple as possible and with the least number of breakable parts. I've become quite comfortable with very simple things and I don't want to spend what time I have left repairing/replacing complicated things.
I've done enough of that with houses and cars.
She's a sailboat first, everything else comes after.
Loose footed main, hanked on fore sails
Manual windlass
Single burner kerosene stove
Diesel heater
Ice box
Galley foot pump
Lavac head
Blocks instead of a traveller
Wind vane
The only electronics are a VHF, handheld GPS, depth sounder

A dodger is on the to-do list, but not for awhile

If I don't have to fix things, then the only misery I should have left is my own personal demons, and with enough sailing, maybe they'll be gone too.

[DarrenC]

If I don't have to fix things, then the only misery I should have left is my own personal demons, and with enough sailing, maybe they'll be gone too.

Amen to that, and grog to you brother!  May we one day buddy-boat our complication-free vessels on a complication-free cruise!
 

[Kettlewell]

There is no such thing as a complication-free boat--just degrees of complication! I met a guy once on a newly launched larger custom boat and the completely integrated "state-of-the-art" electronics were incredibly complicated. It all looked beautifully installed, but an electronics technician had been onboard working fulltime for two weeks trying to get everything to work. I chatted with him one day and he sounded totally perplexed why he couldn't get things to work properly. I later heard that they had cancelled the start that year of their planned 'round-the-world voyage as they were still troubleshooting problems all over the boat.That's the funny thing about boats-- the more you spend and the higher-end you get the more complications you have.

[DarrenC]

.That's the funny thing about boats-- the more you spend and the higher-end you get the more complications you have.

I couldn't agree more!  I spend an inordinate amount of time fantasizing about my dream boat, and it is always the ultimate in simplicity - basically the seagoing version of a hermits cabin with no systems, no through hulls, no wiring, no built ins, etc.  Kero lamps (including nav lights), an authentic shipmate woodstove, composting head, dry bilge for cool storage - i could go on and on....of course the advantage to having very few things is what you do have you can invest in the best quality.  In my case the luxurious splurges would be in a cabinetmaker grade finish and really great cushions/mattresses.

I ha e often thought the best KISS concession to technology would be to limit the electrics to basic handhelds, and have one unobtrusive solar panel charging the very best gel cell deep cycle battery available, whose sole purpose is to power a recharging station.

Of course all of the above is strictly long term dreaming. In the short term i have requested this years birthday gift be a sextant.

[Captain Smollett]

Kero lamps (including nav lights),... one unobtrusive solar panel charging the very best gel cell deep cycle battery available, whose sole purpose is to power a recharging station.

I used to be really enamored of the idea of kero lamps, including for nav lights.  I have an oil lamp that I have used as an anchor light when lashed to the forestay.

However, the availability of reliable LED's changed that game for me.  Yes, it's a concession to technology.

Since we are talking about "reduction of misery," LED's bring a LOT to that table.  No lamp fuel, no filling (and spilling), no smoke or smell (if using kero in the cabin), etc.  Lin and Larry used to use kero navigation lights, and I remember reading they had to carry MULTIPLE sets of spare glass because breakage was common at sea.

If one was going to have a truly "non-electric" boat, LED's are a harder sell.  But, if you are going to have a solar panel and battery for other things anyway, I sure think LED's reduce a lot of misery that oil brings.

Personal choices, of course...

[DarrenC]

Excellent point.  LEDs truly are the more practical choice 

Maybe the middle ground would be to still eliminate the wiring, but have self contained LED lamps with their own batteries which can be re charged as necessary.

[Kettlewell]

It's nice to have a kero lamp or two for night watch illumination, for the occasional cozy dinner below when it is chilly, etc., but electrics are much more practical for most situations, including running lights. For one thing a masthead tricolor is the best offshore sailing light. A couple of problems with kero are they heat the cabin up, and in the tropics you don't want any extra heat, they are potentially smelly and they do degrade air quality even if not smelly, the fuel is messy and difficult to handle, and when they spill the mess is hard to clean up. I personally don't like the idea of burning hydrocarbons down below more than necessary. A few LED lights connected by wiring to a simple electrical system may even be less complication than the kero, wicks, globes, matches or lighters, needed to keep lamps working, and I always have numerous LED flashlights around if something fails. Chances are most of us will want some electricity to run some basic electronics, and once you have that and the solar panel or two to keep things charged up the lights don't add much. I do think LED lights fit the "Elimination of Misery Principal."

[CharlieJ]

.That's the funny thing about boats-- the more you spend and the higher-end you get the more complications you have.

I couldn't agree more!  I spend an inordinate amount of time fantasizing about my dream boat, and it is always the ultimate in simplicity - basically the seagoing version of a hermits cabin with no systems, no through hulls, no wiring, no built ins, etc.  Kero lamps (including nav lights), an authentic shipmate woodstove, composting head, dry bilge for cool storage - i could go on and on....of course the advantage to having very few things is what you do have you can invest in the best quality.  In my case the luxurious splurges would be in a cabinetmaker grade finish and really great cushions/mattresses.

I ha e often thought the best KISS concession to technology would be to limit the electrics to basic handhelds, and have one unobtrusive solar panel charging the very best gel cell deep cycle battery available, whose sole purpose is to power a recharging station.

Of course all of the above is strictly long term dreaming. In the short term i have requested this years birthday gift be a sextant.

You are discussing Tehani ;)

No through hulls at all- sink lifts out and dumps overboard. Foot pump for water

Composting heads are too tall to fit, so I have an MSD, rigged for pump out

One solar panel feeding one battery.

Hand held GPS, although she does have a fishfinder and installed VHF.

However- I have LED fixtures for interior lighting, and am working to replace the running lights with LED's also

Used to use a kerosene anchor light on Tehani.. PITA!! Now I have an LED Anchor light and am delighted with it. Unfortunately the BEBI Company is defunct, but the folks who are replacing them post on here. Good deal

Picture was at anchor, Barataria La

[Captain Smollett]

Excellent point.  LEDs truly are the more practical choice 

Maybe the middle ground would be to still eliminate the wiring, but have self contained LED lamps with their own batteries which can be re charged as necessary.

That's an idea that can work for cabin lighting (we did it for a while), but I doubt it will be practical for navigation lights.

In my opinion, "wiring" is not a problem.  It's the connections that fail.  If you use high quality marine grade wiring and over sized conductors (yes, it costs more, but...), I seriously doubt you will see many failures in the run of the wiring.

That is, if reliability is the main concern...if there's another reason to not want wires, that does not matter so much.   ;D

[Captain Smollett]

She's currently pleased with the amenities level of the boat, although she often admires and asks questions about larger craft and their 'goodies', and I'm certain that she's going to require much more if she is ever going to consider a boat as her one and only home. 

My XO is quite happy with low amenities.  But living aboard can bring some surprises.

We see a lot of folks mentioning "Shower."  The lack of shower on our boat was not really ever a problem for us.  What got to her, after months / years living aboard, was the lack of a regular sized, soak-for-hours-in-steaming-hot bath tub.

And, quite frankly, I don't want the boat big enough to hold and supply one of those.

So, we made other compromises. 

Here's one thing I learned while living KISSey in a small boat.  The boat does not have to BE EVERYTHING.  We had a motto..."Get off the boat."  We love our boat, and look forward to moving back aboard.  But...the boat is not a house.  It's not meant to be a house.

How did we solve the bath tub problem?  A night or two every couple of months at a motel, family visits, house sitting for a friend, etc.

The bigger lesson is that one HAS to become creative at solving these kinds of problems.  The "house way" is to think inside the box...literally...that the "box" (boat home) has to be-all, end-all to every whim and desire.  That, in my opinion, is the kind of thinking that dooms dreams to failure.

Personal space / privacy is an issue on small boats, and this has been the plight of the seaman since man figured out he could build things that float.  The 'modern' answer is to...make the boat solve the problem, but making it big enough for each crew member to have 'their time.'

But, as I say, there are other ways to solve that issue.  If you are with people you care about, how much time REALLY is desired to be spent "alone."  Personally, I get "alone" time by reading, so it is not a physical alone.  We also get it by ... GETTING OFF THE BOAT ... and each having time to do their own thing.

Finally, there will be things you and/or your wife don't like about living small and KISS aboard.  There is no way we can predict every nuance.  But, the key, in my opinion, is to get really creative in how those issues are solved and not to latch onto the first, most obvious POSSIBLE solution - a bigger boat, or the second - move back ashore.

My two cents and food for thought, etc, etc.

[Chris]

I no longer have to be concerned with concessions and I am a bit sad about that though it is liberating. Fortunately I enjoy the solitude and more "sport" in my sailing than my ex partner wanted so downsizing from a comfortable heavy displacement traditional boat and simplifying seemed the way to go.
No toilet thank you...a solution that has worked for me is a bucket with cornstarch Eco Bags along with ash from the wood burning stove or kitty litter. When off shore everything goes over, closer in the bags work well.
A small woodburner or diesel stove for dry heat...had a Shipmate on my old boat. Will have to be something smaller now.
LEDs with oil burners for back . My anchor light is an old lamp hoisted on a penant
Portable GPSs and a sextant...tamaya venus
Good ground tackle...plenty of chain, Delta, Northill. Not going over the mid twenties for weight except for an emergency hook stowed below. I hated anchoring the larger boat...I suppose an electric windlass would have fixed that but too complicated.
Have to have a sink that drains, an ice box, a gimballed sea swing ad a fixed butane propane hotel stove. Badger has a nice built in galley with plenty of stowage.
Headroom is not been a big deal as long as I can easily get my pants on. I'm 6'2" and Badger has 5'9" headroom. I will be adding a Lucite bubble in the hatch that I can stand in. Rigging an inside steering system off the tiller will be easy.
Crash bulkheads...so easy to rig on this boat.
Auto tiller and vane.
Simple and close to nature now. Will see what lessons come with more offshore sailing

[CapnK]

I'm at:

• Almost no thru-hulls (all in boat are plugged and will be glassed over next haulout), though I do have 3 really nice new bronze fittings if I decide to. If I do, I think I would limit it to just 1 for raw water at the sink; drain would go overboard above waterline.I like the low mental overhead of knowing that only water from the sky can get into my boat.
• The interior layout I've come up with handles 2 fairly well; it's why I took so long finding what would work this way - plenty of space to be apart when below with little 'need-ya-to-move' conflict, taking in to consideration how it will work when underway. The Ariel has standing room for me, so I find it extremely comfortable.
• Engel fridge/freezer is a recognized luxury that is so useful to me that I consider it an 'almost must-have'. That little promise of a cold drink no matter what else can allow me to put up with a whole lot of guff.
• Bimini - shade - a definite. As is a dodger (yet to be created/installed). Both allow you to remain more comfortable at the helm and thus alert for longer.
• Eventually a wind vane, and I think an electronic pilot to hook to that if I find myself plying waters where the vane doesn't work (ie motoring).
• TBD ;)

Chris - sorry about your partner, I hope 'the sad' fades fast.

[Chris]

Thanks K. The sad part is that I will be sailing solo. The big  compromise arrived at was actually that she would stay ashore and I would solo long trips. On the larger boat I installed a home sized toilet, a comfortable full shower and hot pressure water to accommodate my friend who after all was not into long trips. I jumped too quickly doing these things hoping it would create a better situation for her. My advice to anyone in a similar situation would be to manage compromise more slowly and realistically.

[Captain Smollett]

The idea of "Reduction of Misery" has come up previously in excellent threads.  I'm glad to see it have a thread of its own.

Here's one of the old ones:

http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=3232.msg35430#msg35430

That whole thread is worth a look; a lot of good discussion and back-n-forth there.

[CharlieJ]

The idea of "Reduction of Misery" has come up previously in excellent threads.  I'm glad to see it have a thread of its own.

Here's one of the old ones:

http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=3232.msg35430#msg35430

That whole thread is worth a look; a lot of good discussion and back-n-forth there.

Wow- some names on that thread I no longer see around. Was a good thread. Dredged up a bunch of memories