The Its to Quiet Subject: Boat Electronics

[Cyric30]

Hello All,
It seems to be getting to quiet in here, SOOOOoooooooooooo  ;D

Ok, Ive found this subject a bit confusing for awhile now, so when in question, ask.
The Subject is:

Boating Electronics:
All aspects please, Navigation, Communication, Charts, whatever you have grown to use, or think would be nice to use. or is essential for boating.
Specifics,
use on a 32' or under boat.
non-entertainment electronics, unless they also provide a boating purpose.
non Budget busting and safe.
for extend use and cruising.

just trying to get the conversation going folks :)

[Frank]

Good post...

Funny...I've used chart plotters but sailing to/from Bahamas I still prefer "Explorer Chart Book" and my $99 Garmin GPS. Ad a hand held VHF used a lot and a 25W VHF used less, a depth sounder and compass......good to go  ;)   OH Ya.... a tiller pilot if ya can   :o :o

[okawbow]

Paper charts, a depth finder, and an old Magellan NAV 5000 DLX, wired into the boats 12v system,  does everything I need.

[CharlieJ]

Ok- I've crossed parts of the Gulf of Mexico twice now, crossed the Gulf stream twice, toured the Bahamas, all the east coast ( to Annapolis) and back
I use a Garmin 76 Cx (now) Had a 72 and a 76 before. Bahamas? Explorer charts and a compass. And those hand held GPS units. Why two? in case one dies, which has happened.

Looking at the log book, right at 10,000 miles last 5-6 years

Our Iphones took us into Progresso Mexico from 100 miles offshore, when the big Garmin chartplotter, with radar interface ( on a delivery) didn't know there was a city there. Navigated the boat right to the jetties.

On board, I have the Garmin 76 Cx (DON'T Buy the 78- it is not set for boating), a depth sounder I use when coming into an anchorage, a fixed mount VHF and a hand held VHF.

And my Iphone, with several sailing apps loaded- tides, wind stations,Navigation apps and charts for US

And my head up out of the cockpit.  AND I 'm a luddite- I ALWAYS have paper charts aboard. Why not? they are free, you can print your own. No reason to NOT have them.


Remember- you are moving at MAYBE 5 MPH. ( we figure average open ocean speed after many miles- 4.5 mph)

Would a radar be nice? Sure- but I can't power it, and don't want too. Would a chart plotter at the helm be nice-? I don't feel the need.

Would an AIS receiver be nice? Yes, probably and I'm researching.

Otherwise, don't over think this, and DON"T over buy. The more "stuff" you put on, the more ELECTRICITY you need, and YOU have to provide it. Stay simple as possible

[Kettlewell]

On my boat I have lots of different paper charts, lots of different cruising guides for the area, a Furuno GPS 32 (non-chartplotter) near the helm station that I put waypoints into, a fixed mount VHF near the helm, a fishfinder (more useful than just depth) with the transducer forward, another depthsounder with the transducer aft, a traditional compass (non-electronic), a couple of handheld VHF radios, a backup handheld old Garmin, and when traveling long distances I will have onboard a laptop probably running OpenCPN free chartplotting software with electronic charts. Since I have just about every paper chart possible from the Maine border to Panama, including Bermuda, I usually am working on a paper chart, but when down in the SW Caribbean there were places I didn't have good charts for and electronic charting was helpful. I personally find that often the best harbor chartlets are in the cruising guides, and sometimes old out-of-print ones. Often the latest guidebooks are more about selling advertising and providing space for ads, while some of the older guides were more oriented towards anchoring out and finding old gunkholes. The Explorer chartbooks are great for the Bahamas, but I also like to have some larger charts onboard to get the big picture. The two depthsounders are very handy when working your way around very shallow areas, but I find the inexpensive b&w fishfinder the most important coastal tool. It lets you know how the depths are trending at a glance and can alert you to shallowing before you go aground. I do think an electronic chartplotter of some sort might be nice for coastal cruising, but I don't really need one.

Also, I think electronic charts vs. paper charts is partly a function of where you're headed. Going really long distance and you'll want both, but electronic charts can be stored in a much smaller space and will allow you to bring lots of charts you might not otherwise have access to. For the ICW I am totally biased and prefer my own ICW Chartbook (the small flip chart one), and I really do believe it is the best way for the ICW. For the Bahamas you want the Explorer chartbooks. For Maine, an electronic chartplotter would be very helpful in the fog in close, and a lot of people feel radar is essential, though I have managed to blunder my way around without one many times.

[sharkbait]

Just a depth sounder handheld gps and vhf. dont forget the kickin stereo

[CharlieJ]

Just a depth sounder handheld gps and vhf. dont forget the kickin stereo

Ipod Nano and blue tooth speakers ;)

[Mario G]

Untill recently I would have said that I've not been a gadget person, our boat came with a  older Garmin (176) and we cruised a year before turning it on.  It also came with a depth gage but with a 4.2 draft , I don't ook at it much.  But I have just recently started playing with a tablet in hopes to have an all in one set up for most of my gadget needs.  Its all in haveing everything on the boat use 12volts or less.

[Snapdragon]

I'm still using the same old ipad I bought back in 2010 when they first came out.
I loaded some Navionics charts, tide and weather apps, and a ship locator app, and so far I haven't found a need for anything more.

[Captain Smollett]

Boating Electronics:
All aspects please, Navigation, Communication, Charts, whatever you have grown to use, or think would be nice to use. or is essential for boating.

Nothing (gear wise) is essential for boating.

There should be nothing on the boat (gadget wise, electronic or other) that the safe operation of the boat requires.

Only a competent skipper is truly essential.  Paper charts and compass I would classify as essential tools.

My advice to those that ask me: sail and/or cruise with ZERO electronics and learn to be competent, safe and confident with your own skill.  Then, add electronic gadgets that add convenience without reliance.

On my boat(s) you will find handheld GPS (rarely on, and that includes outside coastal passage) and handheld VHF, used for bridge-to-bridge comms with vessels in sight and comms with opening bridges on the ICW.

Navigation is done via paper charts and Mark 1 Eyeball, compass and, when needed, sextant.

[s/v Faith]

A compass and a chart are the bare minimum.  I will agree you can get by without a lot doing inland Nav, but when the ocean is all you see you need more then a mark I eyeball.

I "need" paper charts (chartbooks are easier to use in the cockpit). 

Funny, I just noticed yesterday that for short sails across from island to island here in the Abacos I am not looking at much anymore.  I have been here, and been through here enough I have started to remember the visual clues...  I still keep the chartbook on deck, and use it whenever I am going a different route... Or at least look at it when going here or there.

Bigger is not always better, but large is good.

The chart plotter on Emerald Tide is a raymarine C90W.  It is a pretty big screen, so large that I cover it when off shore since even turned down it robs my night vision.  Strangely, it actually makes me navigate more... The navonics charts are terrible!  The Bahamas have 700 islands, I think Navonics only knows about half of them!  I can see why folks run up on reefs so often, half of them don't appear on the navonics chart.  Even the navonics platinum chip I used in the Virgin Islands last year missed the mark much of the time.

ET (at the nav station) and Faith both have 5" Garmin plotters.  They are pretty simple, but I like them because I can see the numbers on the display much more easily then I can read them on my Garmin 76cx.

If I were to rely on any bit of electronics, it would be my ipad with the Garmin Bluechart app.  The app is free, and charts for the entirety of North America cost $29.  It show detail that navonics does not, and it is based on the explorer charts for areas they cover.... Good stuff!

Of course, the ipad just works well whenever I need it...  Add a waterproof case and an charging outlet in the cockpit and it is a great backup reference to the paper chart....  Built in gps works anywhere, and Much easier to handle then a laptop too!

[Captain Smollett]

I will agree you can get by without a lot doing inland Nav, but when the ocean is all you see you need more then a mark I eyeball.

Couple of comments on this (in the spirit of discussion, not disagreement).

Out of sight of land / Aids, more than the Mark 1 Eyeball is needed.  However, I offer the following:

• A compass goes a LONG way to fulfilling that "more," especially on short coastal hops.
• For more "more," even if one uses GPS, my thought is that it does not need to be on all the time.  I fear we've gotten away from the concept of "fix."

My own "navigation philosophy" continues to be a ded reckoning punctuated by fixes.  I follow compass courses and "fix" periodically.  Blue water, my fix period would be once per day.  Near shore, say up to 20 ish nm out, what I've done is fix about every 4 hours (which amounts to every watch).

There are a number of reasons WHY I do it this way rather than following GPS continuously (or advocate for continuous chart plotting).

1.  I just dig traditional navigation. I feel connected to the history of sailing and those sailors that went before me.

2. It keeps me in practice.  Navigation via DR and fixes (however that fixing is done, traditional or electronic) is hard to put into practice without...practice.  My personal observation is that a lot of skippers that don't do this but say they would if GPS failed underestimate how difficult it can be to do traditional navigation while simultaneously doing everything else it takes to sail the boat.

And, keeping in mind that if something one tends to lean on fails, you are psychologically playing from behind the 8 ball which adds to the 'stress' of the moment...doing something mathematical and technical without practice in that circumstance is less than ideal, in my opinion.

Even on open water, my GPS is "off" far more than it is "on."  An additional bonus: it keeps the energy budget lower.

As always, YMMV and "your boat, your choices."  I guess there's just something inside me that gets queasy over the idea of relying on 'gadgets.'  That, and I ALWAYS do things the 'hard way.'

[CharlieJ]

Offshore I plot a position on the chart every 3-4 hours, depending on conditions.

Just something that should be done, in my mind.

Besides- years later, you can relive the sail vicariously. And I've done that too ;)

[w00dy]

I quit using the Mark 1 eyeball some time ago as I found it to be rather outdated. I know that the Garmin disclaimer says to "not rely on a single aid to navigation" but seriously, who does that? Personally, I won't be satisfied until I can steer the boat from my command station berth down below, complete with 360 degree viewscreens, radar, sonar, and autopilot controls. I want my sailing experience to be as close as possible to playing a computer game from my couch. Anyone had any luck with a catheter to MSD installation?  ;D

[Captain Smollett]

I want my sailing experience to be as close as possible to playing a computer game from my couch.

There are power boaters that essentially do just that...GPS waypoints programmed in with an autohelm to do the steering, and just go below.

"Keeping proper lookout" is a concept lost on some of them.  And they run 20+ knots.

Charlie, what was that about you shifting your track a couple of miles from the charted 'waypoint to waypoint' line for just this reason?

[doug]

We have a Garmin 545s chart plotter which is useful to locate entrances into rivers/channels in the Bay (no better than any handheld gps). However it also integrates the most usefull information for us Bay sailors, depth. Depth and and a good weather forecast are are important, unless you want to get off your craft and walk home when the sand gets a little to close to the surface.

[CharlieJ]

I want my sailing experience to be as close as possible to playing a computer game from my couch.

There are power boaters that essentially do just that...GPS waypoints programmed in with an autohelm to do the steering, and just go below.

"Keeping proper lookout" is a concept lost on some of them.  And they run 20+ knots.

Charlie, what was that about you shifting your track a couple of miles from the charted 'waypoint to waypoint' line for just this reason?

Yep- here's the meat of a post I made on Cruising sailor just the other day-

"I've made the run between Bimini and the NW Channel light a couple of times. The charts give an exact waypoint at each end, and a nice line showing exact course, and reciprocal between the two.

And MANY boats lock the way point in, set the auto pilot, and let'er run. Oh, and since it's on course, and it's wide open out here- lets go down and make a sandwich. Or something!

After I had two big power cruisers pass me way close (one less than 50 feet away) running full bore (with NO ONE in sight on deck), I moved my ass about a mile SOUTH of that rhumb line, and set new navigation up. And yes, I saw them coming and dodged.

No more close misses.

Since them I have NEVER run the exact rhumb line shown on the charts, in big open waters.

I've said for years now that someone was gonna have a head on on the Great Bahama Bank, and nobody would know for hours!! "

[CharlieJ]

Should also add- some years ago there WAS a Collision- A big power yacht hit the NW Channel light, broke it off and carried the top section to Nassau on his foredeck, running on autopilot.

And there WAS a collision later.

[Kettlewell]

And, commercial vessels of all sizes routinely run straight shots between sea buoys. In the Bahamas back in the day you used to see fishing boats and even tugs towing barges running at night with no lights on and no visible person on the bridge. If anchoring on the banks at night I would always head off the rumb line at least a half mile or so. Dodged the enormous water barge north of Nassau one black night because my spider sense was tingling after seeing a brillliantly lit tug off in the distance. I decided to just hang out until I knew there was nothing behind him, and along in the pitch black came the football-field sized barge on a long tow showing nada lights. Here on the East Coast I do run buoy to buoy at times when the visibility is good, but when in the fog I take odd routes and try to stay away from most major course lines. Even sailors these days can be found offshore running at night with the autopilot on while the crew is down below watching videos. One advantage of not using and depending on electronics all the time is you keep your own DR and seat-of-the-pants skills highly tuned. Even if I have the GPS on I often run at night with a completely blacked out cockpit to preserve my night vision--chartplotters running at night are terrible for night vision.

[Mario G]

I quit using the Mark 1 eyeball some time ago as I found it to be rather outdated. I know that the Garmin disclaimer says to "not rely on a single aid to navigation" but seriously, who does that? Personally, I won't be satisfied until I can steer the boat from my command station berth down below, complete with 360 degree viewscreens, radar, sonar, and autopilot controls. I want my sailing experience to be as close as possible to playing a computer game from my couch. Anyone had any luck with a catheter to MSD installation?  ;D

Not sure if you joking woody but last summer we installed a setup on a sailboat that the owner could do just that. Had camera's set up so he could setting inside the cabin and with the use of his smart phone or tablet control every aspect of his boat.
I'm not sure what his cruising grounds are I just hope I'm never within 100km of him.

You can tell by the condition of my paper charts that even thou we have been up and down the coast 4 times, that I never move the boat with out them in the cockpit.

Untill they make an auto helm that can read paper charts, thats one gadget that you will not see on my boat. :^)