Thoughts on Bright-work

[Godot]

One of the complaints I've heard regarding the Bayfield 29 is that there is too much bright work to take care of. I don't know that it is too bad. Bow sprit platform, rub rails, hand rails, eye brows, companionway trim, cap rails, and taffrail. Sounds like a lot; but most of the pieces are easy to deal with.

Still, the complaint rages on. I've been slowly moving around taking care of the previous owners neglect, and just completed the first coat on my cockpit wood (rough shape, hasn't been touched since I bought the boat). I think I have the solution to dealing with the bright-work with a minimum of pain.

First, if you don't already own your boat, buy one where the trim wood is in rough shape. Not fall off the boat rough, but former finishes are flaking off rough, or at least where the bright-work is not actually all that bright. This is helpful in that it works to set up realistic standards. Buy a yacht with gleaming varnish and you will feel honor bound to maintain it. THAT is a pain, and takes away too may good sailing days, and I'm certain what the above complainers are talking about. Skip that altogether.

Second, when you scrape off the old junk (the first time will be a bit unpleasant; but get into a rhythm and hopefully you can get it done in a day or two) don't worry so much about bringing it down to bare teak. If you want a perfect job, perfect prep is important. Lower your standards to "good enough" and the stress is significantly reduced. If the old varnish doesn't want to come off the wood, why fight it? Get a good scuff on it and move on. As a bonus, by not sanding down to bare wood you aren't eating away at the teak. Wood finishing is no fun. I suspect replacing worn down teak is worse.

Third, skip the traditional varnish altogether, which seems like way too much work. I've been using Cetol. The original, orangish version. The darker tint I suspect helps with UV protection. But even if it doesn't, it seems to work toward evening out mismatched wood. It's also easy to apply and long-lasting. I've heard complaints that it isn't as pretty as regular varnish. Well, boo hoo. I'd rather be sailing than messing with it constantly.

Fourth, don't worry too much about the instructions on the can. Oh, sure, if you want to do the best job possible I would follow the instructions to a T. But my standards have already been lowered. Besides, it's not easy finding a day with no rain, proper humidity and temperature, but just cloudy enough to keep the boat out of direct sunlight (or at least early in on a morning without dew). You want the best job, I think you need to apply inside a shed. Forget best, and go with good enough.

Fifth, keep up on it. This is not a big deal as Cetol seems to last pretty well. Once a year scuff it up with a Scotchbrite pad, dust it off, and reapply. The whole boat can probably be done in a single day.

Sixth, go sailing and don't worry about it again until next season.

Lower your standards. If it looks halfway decent from a boat length away, I'd say you are doing pretty good.

[Jim_ME]

Lower your standards.

In one sense, it is raising your standards to, as you say, spend more of your time out sailing. Or to consciously balance the maintenance of the boat and the true purpose of the boat...of owning one... :)

I remember when I got the Bristol Corinthian I did think yeah, the vinyl rubrails don't look as nice as the Cape Dory Typhoon's teak toe and rails. but also yeah...no wooden rails to maintain! (and this is on an 18.5 foot LOA boat).  ;D

This reminds me of how a few days ago, I brought my old 1994 Volvo wagon to a new mechanic, to see what it needs for inspection, and among other things he said that it needs a 4-wheel [disc] brake job. It has been sitting over the winter and the rotors had a bit of surface rust on them, that the pads were scraping clean [no grooves, and the rotors looked as thick as new ones]. I think that this would cost hundreds of dollars.

While driving home, I was thinking several things...

*That the brakes--just as they are--work as well or better than any other vehicle that I could remember driving.

*About the saying..."the cost of perfection is prohibitive"--especially during the continuing slow economy. [$500 spent on an unnecessary brake job, means that money is not available to put toward the boat and cruising.]

*How a few of my friends are fortunate to live in states that do not have motor vehicle inspections.

I sure am thankful that these kinds of intrusive and expensive inspections [other than the few Coast Guard requirements for nav lights, PFDs, etc.] have not been imposed on the owners of small cruising sailboats. The most important piece of safety equipment in both cars and boats is between the driver/skippers' ears.

[CharlieJ]

Godot- or you COULD do what i did- See the nice eyebrows in this pic? they set off what otherwise would be a BLAH cabin line




They are mahogany, and are very small. Used to be varnished- and they simply would not hold varnish for very long- too small and got hot- peeled the stuff. They got painted black some 5 years ago. Need a recoat now, but hey- five years is a deal.

Get some nice brown paint for SOME of that brightwork and go sailing ;D ;D

[CharlieJ]

*How a few of my friends are fortunate to live in states that do not have motor vehicle inspections.

I sure am thankful that these kinds of intrusive and expensive inspections [other than the few Coast Guard requirements for nav lights, PFDs, etc.] have not been imposed on the owners of small cruising sailboats. The most important piece of safety equipment in both cars and boats is between the driver/skippers' ears.

Have to disagree to a certain extent. Texas has had safety inspections on vehicles since the mid 50's. I feel that they have kept MANY unsafe vehicles from continuing on the road over the years.Of course, lately the inspections have become diluted, and not worth as much, but they still catch bad brakes, and bad tires.

Totally agree with the last paragraph though. Remember not TOO many years ago when there was an attempt to pass a law requiring a PFD be worn AT ALL TIMES??

[Godot]

Remember not TOO many years ago when there was an attempt to pass a law requiring a PFD be worn AT ALL TIMES??

They were doing Coast Guard Auxilary complimentary safety inspections at the marina today. I was tempted but the boat is currently trashed as I'm doing some projects.

What struck me as somewhat humorous, though, is that the inspector was wearing a PFD while inspecting boats at the dock.

Now, people occasionally fall into the water here (I can think of one time I'm aware of in the seven or eight years I've been at this marina); but the water is warm, there are people all around, and there was a rescue ladder just a few feet away. Accidents can happen; but I think a sober, boat aware person is at minimal risk. Regulations, however, apparently require a PFD when anywhere near a boat.

[Captain Smollett]

Have to disagree to a certain extent. Texas has had safety inspections on vehicles since the mid 50's. I feel that they have kept MANY unsafe vehicles from continuing on the road over the years.Of course, lately the inspections have become diluted, and not worth as much, but they still catch bad brakes, and bad tires.

I've lived in states with and without car inspections.  I can't say I've noticed a whole heckuva lot of difference.

Yeah, they CAN catch a problem.  Usually the kinds of problems they detect are bulbs burnt out, which are just as likely to occur the day after the inspection is passed.

You are 100% the inspections have become diluted.  Here at least, they are equally about "Emissions" as well as "Safety."

The truly bizarre thing is that you can buy a waiver to the emissions inspection.  It ain't cheap, but...the system is structured in a way that does not guarantee all vehicles on the road have "passed."  Cars made before '96 are exempt anyway.

Buying a waiver is the kind of thing makes me really question the efficacy of stuff like this.  At the end of the day...it is fluff.  Got enough money?  No big deal.

Of course, even the safety inspections have exemptions.  Here, it's cars older than 35 years.  Hmmm.  Makes me want a '65 'Stang or an old Willys.  Saw one of the old "classic" Land Rovers the other day in the parking lot.  Purty cool, and looked like it has seen a few rounds outside of parking lots.

PFD regs for the USCG (and similar things) ALWAYS target the lowest common denominator.  Does a Guardsman need to wear a PFD on the dock or on a docked boat while doing a courtesy inspection?  Probably not in 99.5% (or more) of the cases.

But, these regs, like many, are written for the corner cases...those outliers that rarely happen.  Car inspections, pfd's on the dock, and a long laundry list of others have nothing to do with a huge majority of cases.

And, yes, somehow in my mind I was able to convince myself all this was relevant to brightwork.  Can't put into words though.   ;D

[CharlieJ]

When I was living in Florida, back in the 60's, they instituted a vehicle inspection program. Built these fancy inspection stations, with machines that detected uneven brakes, light checking devices, etc. Had LONG lines. Then after about 5-6 years, they announced that the inspections would now be "voluntary" except for commercial vehicles.

Guss what the lines looked like next day?

Back in the 50's here in Texas, they'd have a driver test the brakes- run up into a set of cones, hands off wheel and hit the brakes. They'd also  put the vehicle up on a lift, check exhaust systems, and often pull a wheel and check brake drums.


Now all they check for is "do the lights work" and does the gas cap hold pressure.Still test brakes, but lately I feel we should just mail in the check, sad to say.

Oh, except for in major cities (Houston, Austin, Dallas, etc)THERE they charge double, and do an emissions test, which is not required down here. Not enough population ::)

[Travelnik]

OK, my rant on the Texas Inspections:

I wouldn't mind them if the inspectors all followed some kind of exact rules. Instead, they each interpret the guidelines however they feel like.

I had an '85 Mustang fail one inspection because I had an aftermarket steering wheel that I bought from Pep Boys. Texas law says that the wheel cannot be noticeably smaller than stock, and this one was actually 1/8" larger than stock. The "inspector" said that all aftermarket steering wheels were illegal. I told him that I bought it at Pep Boys, and asked him why they would sell them if they were illegal. His reply, "People sell drugs, too. That doesn't make them legal."
Comparing Pep Boys to drug dealers? WTF?

My current daily driver is a '67 Cougar, and I had 2 places fail it because it doesn't have shoulder belts. When I tried to explain that shoulder belts didn't come out until 1968, they just said that they never heard of anything like that. They said that in Texas, all cars, trucks and vans had to have shoulder belts! I asked where I was supposed to mount them, considering there was no factory designed mounting area, and they said, "I don't know, but it has to have them."

I've also been pulled over twice by young motorcycle cops for not having shoulder belts on. They were more understanding though, and just let me go.

Now, I just have it inspected at the Ford dealership, and have no problems.

Rant over.


Back to the subject of bright-work:

My boat had some dock damage to the rub rail, and tore off about 7' of the wood (teak?). Some time in the past, some of the wood has been replaced with what appears to be just lumber yard quality, outdoor treated pine, and some of that is just patched together with wood screws.

I'm thinking of just removing all of it, putting in some shorter through-bolts, and epoxying the hull-deck joint. That would add to the water-tight integrity, and could be painted to add a line of separation. (The interior is already glassed together from the factory.)

Would there be any real problem with leaving the wood off, other than aesthetics? Is the wooden rub rail really needed, or could I just use fenders and some boards for dock protection when necessary?

If I kept the wood, I would have to replace all of it, and I'm not set up for wood working, so that would add another level of expense that I would rather do without.

Any opinions?

[Jim_ME]

And, yes, somehow in my mind I was able to convince myself all this was relevant to brightwork.  Can't put into words though.   ;D

For me, there was a connection between boats with brightwork that is good enough, but not perfect--and as it happened a couple days before, being told that my brakes needed to be perfect at a cost of $500, when I knew that they were more than good enough [and I expect will pass with a less perfectionist inspector].

Again, I am thankful that this state has not [yet at least] empowered these inspectors to become the brightwork police, or topsides, or keepers of the cosmetic or functional yacht standards...

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln 

[CharlieJ]

Tried looking at pics of the Nomad, but can't find any that show close up's of the rub rail.

Personally, I'd prefer having it there- it does help when rubbing pilings, etc. See if you can find some Ipe. It's a close look alike to teak, and is pretty cheap (relatively)

Tyler eh? I'll be up just below Lufkin sometime in the next month.Have property in Corrigan.

[Travelnik]

Charlie,

I tried to post some pictures that I took when I got her back, but it isn't working.

There are some pictures on one of my blog posts:
http://www.travelnik.com/2013/06/getting-her-back.html

You can see the damaged starboard bow area.

None of the wood is in very good condition. That's why I figure that it would all need replaced.

It's been a while since I've been down to Lufkin. I always enjoyed the Brazos Steak House!  ;)

[CharlieJ]

Not all that bad shape. I've seen worse, like the original shots of Tehani.

Just judging from those pics, I'd say yes, you could rebolt and glass over. Would take some work to do it right, but it would work.

[Travelnik]

Thanks Charlie.

I was hoping that I would be able to make it work.

Maybe, sometime in the future, I might add some wooden rub rails, but for now, I'd prefer to keep the costs down, and the strength up.

The nuts for the rub rail screws are embedded in the interior fiberglass joint, so I plan on replacing the machine screws with flat head stainless screws, countersunk with glass and epoxy covering the screws and hull-deck joint.

I know it will take some work, but I have to sand her down to repair the dock rash, and a new paint job anyway, so this is the best time to do the job.

I want to do a transom mounted rudder, too. Any ideas for a good one to add?

I was considering one from a Catalina 25, or something close to that.
I want something strong enough to do the job, but I also want to be able to replace parts without having to have them custom made.
Do you think the pintles and gudgeons for the C-25 would be strong enough, or should I look for something a bit more heavy duty?

[CharlieJ]

Thanks Charlie.


I want to do a transom mounted rudder, too. Any ideas for a good one to add?

I'm sorry, but I fail to understand why on earth you'd want to change the rudder? It's behind a skeg ( from pics) and well  protected from grounding, etc.The tiller looks to be nicely accessible too. Easy to rig sheet to tiller steering, or a simple tiller pilot.

My advice would be- get the boat sailing, sail it for a while and THEN IF you feel changes are needed , make them.

True I made MANY changes on my last two boats, but I've been sailing, and building boats, since the late 50s.

She's a well designed boat, set up for heavier air sailing. Sail it a while as is.

Looks great for the Texas Coast by the way ;)

I like the idea behind the Travelnik Name by the way

[Travelnik]

You're right Charlie. I guess I'm a little paranoid about the rudder because the PO told me that he lost it once sailing on Lake Palestine, and had to dive in and try to find it buried in the muck. It took 2 hours, and he never sailed her after that without vice grips on the shaft to prevent it from happening again.

I'll take a better look at it and see what I can do to keep it from falling off. I'd hate to lose the rudder on the ICW in heavy traffic!

And thanks for the compliment on the name!  :)

[CharlieJ]

You're right Charlie. I guess I'm a little paranoid about the rudder because the PO told me that he lost it once sailing on Lake Palestine, and had to dive in and try to find it buried in the muck. It took 2 hours, and he never sailed her after that without vice grips on the shaft to prevent it from happening again.

I'd bet there is some sort of collar missing that would prevent the shaft from dropping out

[Travelnik]

There probably is something that he didn't put back when he restored it.

I'll have to go through it all. Maybe I'll run it past the folks on the Yahoo Nomad group and see what they have to say.

[CharlieJ]

Sent you an email using the address on your profile

[Jim_ME]

When I tried to explain that shoulder belts didn't come out until 1968, they just said that they never heard of anything like that.
Any opinions?

I did see this photo, which seems to prove conclusively that at least some cars had shoulder belts, even back in the stone age. Fred and Barney seem to be going the extra mile to be even more responsible and wear crash helmets? Probably don't have many inspection issues with their brakes rusting...since it is their feet...  ;)

[Jim_ME]

May as well continue off topic I suppose and report an update on the Land Yacht... After the sled that I had been driving around would not pass inspection due to unfeasible-to-repair rust underneath [Yay for Maine winters and road salt!], I decided to try taking the other car ("brick") [to] a different garage and mechanic. His estimate to get it inspectable? One-quarter the cost of the previous one.
"Your front brakes are fine. Back ones are marginal but may clean up. Your option about whether to do them or not."
Now that is more like it! I had almost canceled my appointment in a bout of pessimism, thinking that it was a waste of time and effort, but pushed ahead on the off chance that I might be pleasantly surprised...

Sometimes your mileage really does vary.

Once inspected and a keeper, I could then go ahead and add that critical accessory...  ;D
[See, I didn't lose your stickers, Craig...was just waiting for a deserving vehicle!  :)]