Yanmar YSM 8

[Grime]

Also, just another thought...outboards rarely do two things well at all, especially when those two things are as vastly different as propelling a dinghy and pushing the mother boat.  That's just simply the kind of compromise that quite often causes more problems than it solves.

Smollett when your 70 years old and on very limited income you do what you have to do. My outboard motor bracket is mounted to the starboard side of the rudder and a little lower. I did raise it as much as I could without having to drill new holes and fill old one.  There is still no way I would want to use the motor Jim posted the picture of without remote control. Its not that expensive to change over. Knowing my rudders if this motors bracket does not extend farther out than mine the rudder could get hit by the motor. 

[Captain Smollett]

Smollett when your 70 years old and on very limited income you do what you have to do.

I understand and strictly speaking that statement goes for ALL of us...not just someone 70 years old.

The basic fact remains, however, that if you are asking a piece of equipment to do something outside its designed purpose, you are going to get poor results. 

It is ultimately each boat owner's choice about what compromises to make.  We all bear the responsibility for the outcome of those choices.

[Grime]

Then why in your eyes is my choice wrong. My little 5 hp got us out of a bad situation when we lost reverse on the yanmar. Without it it would been hard to get the boat out of the slip because of wind direction. If we waited until the wind changed we would be there until the first northerner came down. It got us where we could return home. Always use the right tool for the job. Eh

Maybe this photo will give you an idea of my freeboard. Add into the equation a net that runs all around our boat. Its to keep our Yorkie on board.

[Captain Smollett]

Gonna probably be my last post in this thread, but I will attempt to answer your specific questions.

Then why in your eyes is my choice wrong

I never said your choice is "wrong."  Never once said that.  Quite the opposite.  I said it is your choice to make.

You posted a problem.  I offered input.  It is a basic fact that THAT outboard is not the "best" tool for your boat.  There is nothing to be defensive about.  No one is attacking you or your choices.

Your opening post had this comment:

I said somewhere not long ago I would search for different peoples advice and make a better decision on which way to go.

If you are having a problem with using your outboard, and I assumed you are since you posted on the forum about it, I offered one possible solution - get an outboard better suited for that boat.  Is that the ONLY solution?  No.  Of course not.

My little 5 hp got us out of a bad situation when we lost reverse on the yanmar. ... It got us where we could return home. Always use the right tool for the job.

Yes.  There is and always will be a BIG difference between and "emergency" situation where ANY TOOL that CAN do the job and every day where one has more options.

So, in that circumstance, the engine you had was certainly the right tool for the job.

I've pushed a disabled boat into safety in high winds and crappy seas with my dinghy with a 2.5 HP outboard on it.  At that time, it was the only resource available.  Would a Carolina Skiff with 100 HP outboard been "better?"  Sure.

In emergencies, good enough is all it takes.

Good luck with your boat and your boat projects.  I really wish you nothing but the best and success in meeting your goals.

[SeaHusky]

If I may offer my thoughts on your situation.
You have a good boat that you like and can and do use.
You are 70 years old and probably will get even older.
The outboard is a problem to use now and will get even more difficult the older you get.
Having a working inboard engine will give you more years of happy sailing in the long run.
You will not get the money back when you sell the boat but perhaps the money spent will keep you sailing a few years longer?
If you pull the engine and transmission and find a safe way to temporarily plug the hole in the hull you can use the outboard you have in an emergency and need not loose the use of the boat completely for that summer (or do the rebuild during winter).

[Jim_ME]

If I may speak candidly, I really think that all this is about something bigger than the mainsail furler, inboard, or outboard motor. You've written several times about how difficult it will be to afford repairing this boat, and how you may not be able to recover various investments that you make, and even questioned whether keeping this boat is your best option. These are very fair points and questions.

This is familiar territory to me. One day my long-term partner and I had a heart-to-heart and agreed that there was nothing that we were doing or would be doing with the current 9,000-pound sailboat that we could not do on a boat that was a bit over half that displacement--and at a much lower cost.

What I finally realized is that, in part, I was trying to make a 9,000-pound boat with an inboard diesel cost the same as a 5,200-pound boat with an outboard motor. This is bound to be a very frustrating experience, because the immutable laws of physics and economics just will not let this happen in reality.

There is a good reason that Charlie (and others cruising on a budget) have chosen and successfully cruised a 25-foot 5,200-pound [base displacement] boat. If you gave CJ a considerably larger boat, he would likely sell it and continue to cruise on Tehani. With its outboard well, he can easily push that boat with a 6 hp outboard, and will never be faced with an inboard diesel motor/transmission rebuild. Now he even has a trailer so that he can bring the boat home to store and work on very economically.

Letting go of a boat that is too large to be comfortably affordable does not mean giving up on sailing or cruising--and may even allow you to actually enjoy and do more of it. We certainly did get much more enjoyment from owning and sailing a Cape Dory Typhoon 19 with a 3.5 hp (29-lb outboard motor) and trailer (that made us independent of any boatyard), than we did with the overly-large (for our actual needs) boat.

Obviously, I don't know whether this does apply to you, but I will put it out there for your consideration, in case it might.

[Grime]

Jim I know what you are saying. There has been a number of time we wish we still have out Starwind 22.

Yes it is bigger than mainsail furler, inboard, or outboard motor.  It was not planned to spend the next 18 months working on her and still working on her.   I new I had made a very costly mistake when it took 4 quarts of oil to go 150 miles. She sail good and is a strong boat. Has to be with a rotten compression post all running rigging flopping in the breeze doing 9.1 mph heal way over. No I wasn't at the helm. 

Why did I want a larger boat?  I wanted my wife comfortable and a private head. I didn't want to go larger than 27. The Watkins 27 is the beamist boat built at 10'. She weighs in a 11,500 and pretty smooth in a rough chop which my wife likes.  Tehani is a very nice boat but for one person cruising. I spent 8 day on her.

Now the wife is very unhappy and I've lost the dream of cruising. This dream started when I was a kid. My mother(die in 1963) and I would talk about sailing around the world. These were the only good time I remember. I work on the ranch all the time. My step dad(die 1959) built sailboats in NOLA before WWII. Never built another one after.  We wanted a little larger boat that just needed a cleaning and go cruising and enjoy each other for the time I have left. I still have cancer and have beat a stage 4. I realized thing would need taken care. No problem there. Its the total refit that has done us in.   

If I tried to sell her today I don't think she would sale or I would be giving her away.  I'm going to post another comment about what Capt. Smollett said.

[Grime]

Yes I asked for suggestions. True. No where in this thread did I say I wanted to use the 5hp dinghy motor as my primary motor. I had to use it to get out of the slip because my transmission went south. In other words I lost reverse. It was never planned to use on this boat except in an emergency when I thought everything with the yanmar was ok. I was trying to figure the best and most reasonable way to get back on the water. I had located a 9.8 extra long shaft elec start that would work with remote control. I could not get a cost to rebuild the trans. Someone here said they are real hard to work on. So I would have to go to a shop for that.

Yes I did get offensive when I was talked to like I started this boat thing yesterday. Jim-Me just suggested a cheap outboard and I stated I didn't care for Johnson because I had problems with 2 different 7.5hp. Then the conversation went south with a lecture on fuel like I didn't know anything. I hate to tell anyone how many gallons of 2 stroke correctly mixed fuel I put in my truck. One motor was stolen and the other I sold and bought a Tohatsu and put over a 1000 trouble free mile on it.

This is where my choice is wrong as I read it. Again I never said the 5hp was my primary outboard. I always referred to it as my dinghy motor.

"The basic fact remains, however, that if you are asking a piece of equipment to do something outside its designed purpose, you are going to get poor results.

It is ultimately each boat owner's choice about what compromises to make.  We all bear the responsibility for the outcome of those choices."

Sometimes its best to keep my mouth shut and deal with problems on my own. This thread has run it course time to close.

Thanks everyone.

[Jim_ME]

David, what about something like this?

From the Houston CL...
http://houston.craigslist.org/boa/4577076473.html

"1988 oday 23' sailboat w/ trailer/motor - $1750 (lake conroe)
A great sailboat for the lake or the bay. She has a main sail , and a jib. She also has a Yamaha 4 stroke that cranks easily and runs great! She is on the lake and ready to sail. Trailer is in great shape."

There are a couple of these moored near my mooring. Seem like a decent and roomy boat, with shallow keel/centerboard for your bays, and being a trailer-sailer, would be very economical. Maybe you would also enjoy trailer sailing to those more distant destinations?

Specifications and layout drawings...
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=348

[Grime]

I'll suggest it to Lisa. In the mean time I'll send the guy a note for more photos.  There is a Starwind 22 for sale but in Maryland. 

With the ODay we could still cruise the Carlina's this fall.  We are trying to find a place for Lisa to settle.   

[Jim_ME]

Great! Good luck to you.  :)

[w00dy]

I disagree that getting in bed with ANOTHER boat is going to simplify your life at this point. Granted a smaller less complex boat would hopefully be easier to manage, but I'm sure I don't have to tell YOU that it can be hard to know what you,re getting and even the best looking ones often hold all kinds of surprises for us poor fools who just want to go sailing! Maybe there's a well taken date of vessel out there that needs nothing and is ready to go, but I submit that it would be a chancy thing to trade known problems for other unknown ones and start the whole damned process again.

Just want you to know that I sympathyze with you two and want to encourage you to do whatever is the right thing for you, and to heck with convention or what is best. I think the key is to accept that life is too short to worry about doing things perfectly or by the book. Do the best you can with what you have and set your expectations based on what works for you.

[Grime]

A lot has been going on through my mind over these last few days. Possibly buying another headache, even tho it looks great on the surface, doesn't correct the problem I have now. I did email and text the person with the oday. Never heard back from them. That's ok.

Miss Sadie came with a outboard bracket for a reason. I just didn't have the experience to recognize the possible problems with the yanmar. Now to solve the problem I'm having I have to find someone that is experienced with these transmission. The Yanmar dealer in Rockport has no idea how to even work on mine.

Hang a 9.9 on the stern and go sailing.

I heard you guys made it from Jamie. Stay in tough.

[Jim_ME]

David, One thing that you do know in comparing these boats is that the ODay 23 is never going to need a diesel inboard motor and transmission rebuild/replacement, which remains an unknown [but certainly substantial] cost.

I would argue that these known problems and unknown costs are at least as large a risk than any chances you take from making a change to a smaller boat, if you evaluate the condition of any new boat carefully.

You have estimated the cost of setting up an electric start outboard with remote control at $1800. That is the cost of the ODay 23 including a 4 hp 4-stroke Yamaha outboard. Also your 5-hp long-shaft outboard outboard would be fine as a spare on the smaller boat.

This Oday 23 may well be that well-cared for boat. Until you look at it, you don't really know.

A 23-foot/3500-lb boat with a trailer [and simple outboard setup] is going to be far more economical to own and maintain in general than a 27-foot boat of more than twice that displacement [with a diesel inboard]. It also gives you the option to trailer sail to more distant places that you may not have the time to sail to, as someone that lives aboard full time may.

Trading down from a overly-large and expensive boat to a boat half the size [in displacement] was absolutely the right thing for us, at that time in our lives. My only regret is that we didn't do it sooner, and enjoy more affordable and less stressful sailing earlier.

Again, from what you have written, the cost of your current boat seems to be something that you may not be able to justify for the more limited and part-time cruising that you have planned [and limited budget]. As Charlie reminded me in chat, [speaking of himself, after I'd used him as an example of cruising a smallish boat on a limited budget] those who may be living aboard and cruising full time, without other land-based storage (and expenses like houses and vehicles), etc., have very different needs and considerations.

As far as the seller of the ODay 23 not yet responding...at the price he is asking, it is unlikely to be for sale long. I have found that when there is a deal available, my best course of action is to go see it as soon as possible. If one asks for more information/photos and seems tentative (which you may understandably be), most sellers are going to direct their efforts to those that seem most serious and ready to buy. 

[Grime]

Jim I understand every word you are saying. Question is what do I do with my present boat. She's not worth much with no engine. Wither it be inboard or outboard with remote.  I would still own her with a monthly slip fee. With us being gone weeks at a time she would become like most of the boats here in the marina with mold growing all over her.

We talked about driving up to Lake Conroe to look her over. Maybe I did make a mistake with my questions. I did say I was interested and would drive up. 5 hours thru Houston traffic. With no answer from email or text why pursue.  Why didn't I call you ask. With a 80% hearing lost and hearing aids in both ears talking on the phone is a night mare. I miss most of the conversation. Just ask my wife what its like if I don't have them in.

The additional cost of my boat was not expected. I did plan on some items that the PO took off the boat. VHF, new cushions, leds, chartplotter, bottom job, but not 16 day on the hard, dinghy/outboard. Not rebuilding the bulkhead and compression post because they were all rotted and the other stuff that needed repair or replacing. Engine because it burns oil. Now the transmission.

We do have a land base that is very very reasonable to maintain. We live in a RV.

There a many people out cruising that do it a few months at a time. People doing the great loop may take 2/3 years to complete. So with us having to return every so often is nothing out of the norm. Charlie and company came back to work for awhile.

With my lack of experience I made a mistake in purchasing her. Our plan as to purchase a boat that needed a little tlc so we could go cruising. Instead she was needing a lot of TLC an has ended up being a project.

All that is majorly left is the motor. I can paint the deck anytime.
   

[Frank]

What is the tranny doing...or "not" doing?  What year?

[Grime]

No reverse. I would say the engine and transmission are original and that would be 1978. Yanmar doesn't even have part manuals anymore.  They are not making the YSM 8 any longer and once part are gone that's the end of them. They use to sell a overhaul kit but not any longer. You have to order each part one by one. I do have a copy on a flash drive but it is to hard to read. Really blurry.

[Frank]

A friends Bayfiels 25 with the same engine had similar troubles way back...when manuals and parts were still easy. It was the "cone shaped" clutch. Fairly big job switching it out by memory. No easy way out from the sounds of it.

[s/v Faith]

So sorry to be coming to this dance so late...

  Might you be willing to indulge me and share what exactly the motor was doing (or failing to do) that indicated failure of both the motor and transmission?

  I hate to flog a dead horse, especially when you have already mounted an outboard...  But would be curious to know.

  I have often encountered boats with systems that have been written off for dead, and at times they needed something simple (maybe as easy an a linkage adjustment).  I wish I were there to take a look, it would be great to help you get her going again!

  Of course I have a few holes in my gut right now from surgery, so hanging into a bilge to pull wrenches might not be much fun...

[Grime]

The motor leaves a black oil strip in the water when its at the working rpm. Used 4+ quarts of oil in about 150 miles. Someone suggested the exhaust mixing elbow. I got a new on made no difference. Not sure what happened with the transmission. The reverse just quit working. Motor is a 1978 Yanmar YSM8. The Yanmar dealer in Rockport has know idea how to work on and fix the transmission. They have never done on.  Yanmar doesn't make replacement parts for this motor any longer. When the supply is gone that's it.

The outboard motor mount was on the boat when I purchased her. We were on our first day of cruising when I went to back out of the slip in Matagorda, Texas. No reverse so I put my dinghy motor on the bracket and backed out of the slip. We used the yanmar to motorsail back to Port O'Connor, Tx spent the night and yanmar motorsailed backed to our home base slip in Port Lavaca.

This outboard was never planned to use at any time except in a emergency.

When we got back to our slip I did everything I could think of to check. Linkage, prop, adjustments anything that would be out of the norm.  Something had broke or given way in the transmission. When I tried to put it in reverse I had to keep adding throttle to keep the motor from dying as it went into gear. I could rev up the motor and the prop shaft never sped up. In forward it shifted in smoothly and I could get a good prop wash out the stern. This is about all I can say.

I am not able to remove the motor and transmission by myself. I thought I had the help but that fell thru. So I posted about what would others do since I had a outboard motor bracket already on the boat. Then this conversation went south.

Saturday was my last post here. Monday I purchased a Suzuki 9.9 extra long shaft, ordered the remote controls and will remove the prop off the yanmar and go that direction. 

There would be know way I could think of selling her with no working motor.  This is about the best I can do Faith.

Watch them holes in you gut. Take care