Galley water pumps and the KISS-principle?

[SeaHusky]

My galley had two manual pumps. One hand-piston type for fresh water and one foot-membrane type for sea water.
Both were old and leaky and I didn't like either so they will be replaced. First I was going to get two manual foot pumps but then started thinking.
The foot pumps are large, complicated with many moving parts, valves, membranes etc. Not to mention rather expensive. The electric equivalent is much smaller, has few moving parts and is much cheaper (1/2-1/3 of the cost).
The manual pump needs at least one equally expensive spare parts kit. An extra, electric replacement pump costs less than the spare parts kit.
So which is actually more KISS?
Which should I choose and why?

[Cyric30]

Hum, SeaHusky
i dont have an answer for you, but you do bring up an interesting question,
which would be the best option, maybe its dependent on cruising area? maybe if your in an area with plenty of sun that keeps a solar, or wind generator to keep you batteries topped off well, a electric with a spare or 2 would be a good option, but in an area with low sunlight or no wind genny, where you would have to use a engine to recharge your batteries it might not be the best idea. eather way food for thought.

[CharlieJ]

Be aware. With an electric your water usage will go up. Particularly if you have non sailing guests aboard

[Captain Smollett]

The foot pumps are large, complicated with many moving parts, valves, membranes etc. Not to mention rather expensive. The electric equivalent is much smaller, has few moving parts and is much cheaper (1/2-1/3 of the cost).
The manual pump needs at least one equally expensive spare parts kit. An extra, electric replacement pump costs less than the spare parts kit.
So which is actually more KISS?
Which should I choose and why?

I'd choose the manual.

I'd say the manual is more KISS.  KISS is not (necessarily) a function of initial cost.  I consider it more of a "total cost of ownership" or "cost of operation" thing, where 'cost' can be financial or spiritual.

Some thoughts:

In this case, I say the manual is more KISS due to less reliance on an external (complicated) system - the electrical system.

Also, there's a "psychological" effect - keep adding electrical gadgets on the thinking that it is "easier," "cheaper" or some other metric of convenience, and the complexity and non-KISSiness of the electrical system side of the equation skyrockets.  Charging and storage capacity can grow quickly.

I my opinion, it is the complex interdependence of systems that render a boat non-KISS.  You are increasing system interdependence by linking the water system with the electric.  And, as Charlie said, you are impacting the water system with an electric pump in the system.

With an electric pump, you have TWO modes of failure that can make getting water out of your tanks troublesome: failure of the pump itself (there with either pump) or failure of the electric system upstream of the pump.

The manual pump may contain more moving parts, but they don't, in general, move as fast and may well not wear out as quickly.  Nor do they generally require precise fitting.  The handle, for example, is a moving part but may well not wear out in your lifetime.  Number of moving parts may not be the best criterion.

Further, a number of the parts in the manual pump can probably be expediently jury-rigged in an 'emergency.'

A better criterion, in my view, is to examine it from a 'risk analysis' perspective...a manual pump with 100 moving parts that exhibits (a made up number) 1 catastrophic failure every 5-10 years is better than a cheaper, fewer-moving-parts electric pump that does not reliably last more than 1-2 years.  Compound that risk assessment with the likelihood of jury-rigging parts for the manual pump if need be.

Bottom line, cost alone is not, in my way of looking at it, the metric of KISS.

[CharlieJ]

I've had my Whale footpump on Tehani since launched and have never had to repair it. I do carry a rebuild kit

[Travelnik]

I'm thinking of going electric to make things more convenient for my wife. If there's too much inconvenience and difficulties (primitive conditions), she may decide to just cancel our planned trip.   :(

Bugs and small spaces are bad enough. Plus, with the possibility of a composting head, I'd rather have a few amenities to keep her happy.   ;D

I'll have jugs of water as a backup.  :D

[Captain Smollett]

I'm thinking of going electric to make things more convenient for my wife. If there's too much inconvenience and difficulties (primitive conditions), she may decide to just cancel our planned trip.   

Just out of curiosity, and I don't know your wife, but has she SAID that hand or foot pumping water was "a thing" to her, or is this an assumption?

Charlie's point about water consumption is perhaps the single strongest, most compelling argument against electric pumps.  I illustrate with an anecdote:

When we lived aboard at the marina, we routinely got 6 weeks or more per 30 gallon tank of water.  We did not shower with this water, but used it for dish washing, cooking, general clean-up, etc.

Contrast a boat down the dock from us: a 50 gallon tank emptied twice per week, likewise used almost exclusively for washing dishes.

With a pump-up sprayer, water "pressure" is not a problem but water is MUCH easier to conserve by the 'default off' rather than 'can run freely' device.

You may be thinking of fixing a problem that does not exist.  Again, I don't know your wife and what you guys have already talked about...so offer this as a general comment.

If you have not gone over this ground, you can "practice" at home easily enough.  Get a hand-held pump-up sprayer and use it for daily chores in the home.  Use the sink to ONLY fill that sprayer. 

The pumping to fill a sink or the pump-up sprayer is, in my opinion, a negligible effort not to be overblown, but YMMV as they say.  It's easy to put more "weight" on the effort of pumping water than it really deserves.

[lance on cloud nine]

also those sprayers work so darn well, that they can put a smile on a person's face! and maybe start to give them their first positive thoughts on simplicity while afloat.

[SeaHusky]

Thanks guys!
Whale foot pumps it is then (and a 5-litre sprayer for showers).

[CharlieJ]

Check out the 2 gallon sprayer from Duckworks. Custom made as a shower and quite reasonable in price.

By the way- that Whale footpump I have is double action so you get double quantity with each pump.  ;)

[Travelnik]

Just out of curiosity, and I don't know your wife, but has she SAID that hand or foot pumping water was "a thing" to her, or is this an assumption?

. . .

The pumping to fill a sink or the pump-up sprayer is, in my opinion, a negligible effort not to be overblown, but YMMV as they say.  It's easy to put more "weight" on the effort of pumping water than it really deserves.

You've got some good points, and we're still in the planning stages, so maybe we will try out the manual pump on some smaller trips before we head out for any extended trip.

Most of our sailing will be on the ICW, so there will be opportunities to keep her from feeling like she's living a primitive life.
We have gone on trips with a cab over camper, and our family of 4 lived in a 24' travel trailer for over 6 months, so maybe she will be more adaptable than either of us thinks.  ;)

[SeaHusky]

Check out the 2 gallon sprayer from Duckworks. Custom made as a shower and quite reasonable in price.

Thanks but I am on the wrong continent. The cost for shipping is as much as the pump.  :(