Hurricane Harvey

[ralay]

That storm track graphic shows the Gulf strangely free of hurricanes.  Texas has been hit by 59 from 1851-2004, including 19 that were at least Category 3.  LA, AL, MS and the West coast of FL account for another 177 strikes or 236 total.  The East coast of FL up to the NC/VA border had 149 over that period.  It's all pretty scary down there come August and September. 

[SeaHusky]

Cyric, first of all I am very sorry about your boat. I am putting so much work into mine that I think I can imagine what it would feel like, but I probably can't.
However I am ignorant about the conditions on your side of the water so I may be way off but I saw several boats on the videos posted that were afloat but severely smashed both bow and stern. I am thinking that a hole below the waterline early on may have saved your boat from severe structural damage? Maybe your boat is in pretty good shape, although sunk? What is the reason for not getting a crane and lifting her as soon as possible to asses if she is salvageable? I take it that you have to get her out of the marina at your expense any how?

[Owly055]

Cyric, first of all I am very sorry about your boat. I am putting so much work into mine that I think I can imagine what it would feel like, but I probably can't.
However I am ignorant about the conditions on your side of the water so I may be way off but I saw several boats on the videos posted that were afloat but severely smashed both bow and stern. I am thinking that a hole below the waterline early on may have saved your boat from severe structural damage? Maybe your boat is in pretty good shape, although sunk? What is the reason for not getting a crane and lifting her as soon as possible to asses if she is salvageable? I take it that you have to get her out of the marina at your expense any how?

You make "refloating" sound like a simple proposition........ it's anything but simple.   Finding suitable lift points, to get it off the bottom (probably chain plates), then relieving the suction of the mud that has accumulated, by blasting air beneath it, so you don't simply rip the boat apart, then lifting it enough to get straps under.  Once at the surface the water must be pumped out, and ultimately you have to do something with it.... It likely can't be patched with some sort of quick simple patch so that it can be refloated, and even if it is refloated, it will have to be towed to a place where it can be taken out.   The crane will probably have to be on a barge, and even then you must find such equipment, and people with the know how to do the job.   Then you have the problem of a bay full of wreckage to navigate through, and the potential liability of damage to dozens of sunken yachts in perfect condition before the barge hit them.   Air bags and pumps of course are the way to raise sunken yachts in that situation, not cranes.... at least until there is a generally accepted "process".    Imagine hundreds of people descending on the area, all demanding that their yacht be raised.   This boat inevitably is part of a larger picture..... a tangle that will have to be unraveled, and nobody is going to be happy.  Everybody is pretty much in the same boat so to speak.


                                                  H.W.

[ralay]

I think Owly is right about it being a big undertaking. 

The magnitude of the ordeal depends a lot on why the boat went down.  I've seen boats refloated in a few hours if they sank for small reasons (hose cracked, pressure water left running, etc). But what do you do with a bunch of boats that sank because they (presumably) have big holes knocked in them?  You can hire divers to float them with bags, but what then?  There's no boatyard nearby.  There's less than a foot of tide, so you can't let them dry out to inspect or make repairs.  Do you pay to tow it to another town in another bay with a Travellift and a yard or have a crane lift it onto a trailer and truck it somewhere??   I really don't know the answer, but I'm curious.   I assume the alternative would be to drag them ashore with whatever heavy equipment is available and saw them up. 

[CharlieJ]

And in this case, the nearest haul out facility is 60 miles away, and was devastated by the same storm. So at this point no one really has a clue as to what will happen

[SeaHusky]

I'm sorry to hear that!
I assumed that the boats were moored close to dry land or a dock or if it is a larger marina with floating docks, mooring balls and such there would be equipment for maintenance such as moving large anchor blocks and stuff available. Since this is a reoccurring problem one might assume that there would be a plan to handle it.

[s/v Faith]

I split this post off into a new thread on Hurricane Irma....

Perhaps it's time to focus on Irma, and what people in South Florida are doing to protect their boats.  It's always a good idea to have a plan.   By the way Saint Irma is the patron saint of women who've been abused or molested.    Hermina Grivot , also known as Irma Grivot, Saint Irma or Saint Hermina, born in 1866 in France,  beheaded in 1900 in China.  I predict that she will pass right over Mar a Lago  at full strength and just sit there for a few days ;-)   If I was anywhere in the vicinity, I'd be for making an escape while I could!!   This is said to be the most wrathful hurricane ever recorded in the Atlantic, with winds approaching 200 mph.   

                                                                              H.W.

My heart goes out to all affected by Harvey.  I fear that the suffering you have endured is likely to be made worse by the diversoin of relief assets to Irma....  I also suspect that in the coming days there will be a risk of feeling forgotten.... 

  May your recovery be swift... both of broken boats and of broken hearts.

[s/v Faith]

Joe -

Man I absolutely hate to hear that about your boat. :/

Tell you what, though - if you can borrow Tehani/CJ's trailer, come pick up Katie Marie. She needs putting back together, but all the pieces are there except for an outboard motor. I'd love for her to have a "home" with someone that'll take her cruising, and you need a boat.

Sounds like a match to me.  8)

What an amazingly kind offer.

[s/v Faith]

Re: refloating...

  Among the many advantages of smaller craft is that recovery efforts are more manageable....  I have been a part of refloating boats.  Lift bags and divers can be a DIY project.  The initial lift can often be accomplished by placing floatiation inside the cabin...  getting the hull off the bottom and making placement of bags on the outside of the hull more easy.

  Diving the boat to look at the damage can give you an idea of what holes need to be plugged.... who knows.... with the rain you got, it could actually have been something like plugged cockpit drains or a hatch blown open....

  Admittedly I did it in an intact marina, where I was able to get the boat into shallow water for the pumping and righting....  this may simply not be possible in the context of the destruction....  and the marina may forbid it for liability or fears of looting or further damage to other boats.... 

  Not suggesting it is easy, or even feasible...  only that it has been done, and might be an option to look into.

 

[Owly055]

I was thinking much along the same lines.............  What could be purchased easily and cheaply for flotation bags.   Actual lift bags are not exactly laying about everywhere. What sort of cheap inflatable things from Walmart or some other junk store could be packed inside, and inflated?     After the hurricane resources of all kinds are probably very depleted.  Divers are probably in short supply.  A friend with a Hooka might be a friend indeed.    It's the sort of undertaking that requires total commitment and a willingness to spend huge amounts of time, and the ability to overcome obstacles of all kinds............and they will be endless.   One has to find ways to work around obstacles, rather than take them on frontally.    Efforts by others will be consuming resources, but lending a hand to others in similar straits can pay dividends.  There are dozens if not hundreds of others facing similar crisis, and often working together to help each other benefits everybody.   Ideas and innovations need to be shared.  Decent people help each other out, and reciprocate when you lend a hand.   This kind of crisis quickly sorts out the decent people from those who are self centered.   It brings out the very best AND the very worst in people.   One should never forget which people were which.   It reveals a person's true character.

                                                                     H.W.

Re: refloating...

  Among the many advantages of smaller craft is that recovery efforts are more manageable....  I have been a part of refloating boats.  Lift bags and divers can be a DIY project.  The initial lift can often be accomplished by placing floatiation inside the cabin...  getting the hull off the bottom and making placement of bags on the outside of the hull more easy.

  Diving the boat to look at the damage can give you an idea of what holes need to be plugged.... who knows.... with the rain you got, it could actually have been something like plugged cockpit drains or a hatch blown open....

  Admittedly I did it in an intact marina, where I was able to get the boat into shallow water for the pumping and righting....  this may simply not be possible in the context of the destruction....  and the marina may forbid it for liability or fears of looting or further damage to other boats.... 

  Not suggesting it is easy, or even feasible...  only that it has been done, and might be an option to look into.

[CharlieJ]

One of the huge problems in this sort of thing is- there well may be 200 sunk boats along the near coast, and many up on shore. Facilities are extremely limited, so it's gonna take, probably, months to get it all taken care off.

Will be hauling a friends boat in the morning- it's trailerable and afloat.. But had to convince authorities it was ok to use ramp. Has been blocked since storm.. They don't want lookie-loos OR Looters there.

TWO haul out facilities in 100 miles of coast, and both damaged. The Texas coast is very sparsely populated

Tough situation

[ralay]

Browsing online it looks like you can buy and rent lift bags.  I think I've also seen self-inflating bags marketed as post-collision damage control.  I'm sure they're expensive, though, and there might be cheaper options.

For non-Texans, it's worth noting that Texas has chocolate milk for saltwater.  I lived at that marina for 2 years and never saw our keel let alone the bottom.  Our Aleutka drew 2'9" and we never saw the (bilge) keels until we got to FL.  Mona's prop is only about a foot or so under the water, but I couldn't see it without pulling my mask right up to the blades.  Inspecting hulls or planting bags in cabins, might not be a very amateur-friendly activity.  You'd probably be feeling for holes as much as looking and it would be really easy to get tangled up or disoriented in the mess of rigging and boats and lines down there, especially trailing a hookah line.  It's probably a job best assigned to trained divers (of course some folks are trained divers or have friends who are).

And what CJ said is the real rub.  NLM is just two docks built with Grant money next to a public park and some city offices in a town of about 12,000 people.  There's none of the marine services you'd find in a more populated place or more popular cruising ground.  If you floated your boat, you'd have to tow it 100 miles up the ICW through heavy tow traffic or pay a crane to come from another city to lift your boat onto a trailer and truck it down the highway or to some farmer's field.  The city probably isn't going to let anyone put a boat on stands in the park or their parking lot and grind away. 

I know it probably seems kind of crazy that it should be this difficult or that there are so few services, but I think it's reflected in the price of the marina.  It was $4/ft when we were there, which is half of the next cheapest marina we've ever stayed at.  So that's the gamble.  You can store your boat for half the price of everyone else, but you accept that you'll have few options in a big hurricane. If you have a $5,000-10,000 boat and are saving $1,000 or more a year, the off of coming out ahead are probably still in your favor.  I assume CJ has saved plenty over the years to cover his repairs.

Course it still really sucks if you just put a boat with a new engine in there just in time for the Big One to sink it.  Sorry, Cyric. 

[s/v Faith]

I appreciate the perspective, I have never cruised Texas... sounds like it is indeed quite a challenge to get water access.

*** thought presented are not intended as realistic for Joes boat, but in hopes it might trigger ideas ***

As for the question of lift bags, 20" tractor trailer inner tubes are inexpensive and pretty available. When Kurt was doing his calculations on building flotation foam into Katie Marie he came up with some relatively modest volume figures of what it would take to keep er afloat if holed.

Truck tubes have a few advantages, they are sturdy and the inflation connections are slow but readily available. Also, with their being round with a hole in the center have fairly obvious attachment options....  a line taken through a pair and stretched under the hull an a couple of places cloud "sling" a boat fairly effectively.   Filling the bags on either side slowly, alternting little by little could provide a reasonably controllable lift

I hear the water clarity is a challenge, it was in my own experiences also.  Fortunately you are looking for larger holes so the brail method works pretty well.

We used divie tanks with inflation chucks on the lp line, but a gas compressor would work too (possibly on shore with cheap HF air lines connected together to give the length....

  So sorry for the loss, hope some option that works becomes available soonest.

[maxiSwede]

Joe -

Man I absolutely hate to hear that about your boat. :/

Tell you what, though - if you can borrow Tehani/CJ's trailer, come pick up Katie Marie. She needs putting back together, but all the pieces are there except for an outboard motor. I'd love for her to have a "home" with someone that'll take her cruising, and you need a boat.

Sounds like a match to me.  8)

What an amazingly kind offer.

+ one!