HEAT! Who's using (or has/have used) a wood/coal stove?

[CapnK]

I am about to begin some experimentation using (of course) non-traditional/typical materials and/or techniques :) , but there will be more specifics on just what those are later, once I get the setup working (hopefully). I'm keeping it sort of close-held at first, just for sailFarer's, to keep it cheap, because it is a *much* more affordable way to implement this that any other typical 'sailboater' way to do it than I have seen after several years of looking and wanting to try it. I dunno - there's just an allure of an actual fire heating the cabin that cannot be matched, and I think I have found that there is a "sailFar" way to do it now...

I came really close to pulling the trigger on a forced-air diesel system this past week, before serendipitously finding this more classic  'solution' I am going to be using/testing, which is about 1/4 the cost of the cheapest, Russian- or Chinese-made forced air system. And as it is 'traditional' almost, I thought it likely that some of us have some experience with this method. The cheapest of forced-air systems is around $600 (with an uncertain warranty and part supply solution), and the 'fanciest' seems to be maybe the Wallas systems, which are $5K or so. Of course, electric won't work away form the dock, and propane, while handy - well, who wants to sail around a propane tanker? That's what it would take if you lived aboard a northern hemisphere winter, with even catalytics burning through a pound of fuel every 8 hours or so.

So - who here has used wood/coal to heat yer vessel? How big of a boat was it, how big of a stove (name/type if possible), and what was your experience like? Tips, tricks, techniques? Wood or coal?

One Q I have for sure is this: what type of flue/smoke cap did you use, and how effective was it at defeating backdrafts/slow starting or burning/rain/etc? There are 3 or 4 types that I see out there right now - A round one, an H-shaped one, one which has 3 long "tapers", and so on... Yet searching the internets I have yet to find a forum thread or article which shows the strengths and weaknesses of the types...

[Cyric30]

Hay KapnK
while ive never used wood heat on a boat, ive used wood heat for most of my life, i dont know how much help that'll be, but hay im willing to ty to help.
my first thought for a small heater would be a rocket stove of some "self feeding" design, but having only used one in camping situations the heat generated might be to high and be a hazard to the boat...have you looked into this before?

Cyric

[Norman]

No real help here, BUT half a century or more ago, I was on a sailboat with a coal and wood stove for heat and cooking.

The sail was very dinghy where the smoke soaked into it.

It was a very short, fat pot belly stove with a squared top, round corners, and an inch high rim to keep pans in place when the boat heeled.

It had a round top wind deflector on a foot tall stack with wires to the cabin top to keep it on and prevent lines snagging.

It sat on a 2 foot square fire brick platform, with a galvanized pan, 2 inch flange turned up all the way around on the bricks, and was bolted down.  Box of drift wood for kindling and short fires to cook on, a bucket of coal with a lid lashed down to prevent spills, for serious heating, and another bucket with lid for ashes, which went over the side after they were cold and he was dressed.  That was a chore not done at night!

The coal he burned had a lot of sulfur in it, and the smoke smelled, but the interior did not.  It smelled of the cooking!

The boat was wood, and not very big, about 20 feet long hull, but very beamy, maybe 10 feet, and rounded at both ends. A 6 foot bowsprit, jib and staysail.  Huge gaff main, gaff mizzen overhanging the stern about 4 feet, about 30 feet overall length!  It had a  centerboard.  Huge sail area!

NO electrics, kerosene navigation lights and lantern inside.

With all sails set and running down wind, he matched the speed of my Lightning, both of us single handing!

I always envied him for the comfort and convenience of that stove.  He sailed well into cold weather.


That was in 1959-1960, and no possibility that brand and model stove still exists!

[cap-couillon]

Lord knows I am all for "traditional" (and cheap) sail far solutions, and am far from a safety nazi, but be careful with this one...

Wood, not so much, but coal generates HUGE amounts of carbon monoxide. A plugged or back drafting charlie noble while you are all tucked in cozy could cause for a real bad morning when you forget to wake up.

Not a big fan of electronic gizmos, but if you are gonna run a solid fuel stove, it would seem a cheap CO detector might be a good idea. Just sayin'...

My solution to winter heat was to sail south.

[CapnK]

Joe - Re: rocket stoves - I have played with them before, even 'beta tested' a fan-forced version for a guy looking to produce a new backpacking stove 15+ years or so ago. It used a small computer fan to create the 'rocket' effect, ie high velocity air over the burning fuel. Great for cooking up some water fast, and they produce little waste, but for heating an airspace, I think a slower burn does a better job, with a 'heat sink' like the cast iron to help hold it in the boat. A small version might be a good thing to use for igniting coal in a quick fashion...

Norman, that boat setup sounds about as classic as you can get! :) WRT the way the stove was rigged, all of that sounds like what I will be doing if the stove I am getting proves capable of heating the boat better than propane. The next few weeks will be setting it all up and testing how it goes. If it seems to work well, I'll do a semi-permanent "install", and should know by the new year if it'll become permanent. Most of what I am seeing indicates that if the stove is set up properly then the fuel will burn thoroughly enough that little smoke results.

Cap - You betcha! I'll have at least one detector for smoke and CO, and another for propane, as that is also coming into the boat. In addition to those, proper installation, fire extinguishers, and a handy bucket of sand, a tip I saw was to use a handheld IR thermometer after setup to determine if there are any nearby combustibles getting overheated by proximity to the stove. Safety first, heat second, grog third. :D

[Cruiser2B]

I, too, am looking at heating options to install in my Alberg 30. I don't have much experience with heating a small boat but I have a friend that does. He's from Maine and had a small Navigator "sardine" series stove on a Pearson triton. The stove was installed out in the open sort of, not right up against any bulkheads. I asked him how he like it after not seeing him for a few years. He said he switched to a Refleks diesel heater. He said the solid fuel heater needed constant attention and never got the boat warm. He said it did take chill out air but never made it comfortable. He told me to look into a diesel heater.
Not relevant to this conversation, he had a 6HP outboard which is the setup he used to get from Maine to Oriental and from there to Azores and back and I was thinking about running this same setup on my Alberg for the addition space and to get the gasoline off the boat. When I asked him how he like the outboard he simply replied, his next boat will have a diesel :D He is living and cruising in the San Jaun Islands still on the Triton
Again, not first hand experiences of myself

[Frank]

Wayyyyy back...1988 or so, small boat magazine had a pretty Sam Devlin designed 18 or 19fter on the cover with a review inside. Of note.....this little sitting headroom sloop had a wood burning stove (again...by memory)
I wonder if an email to Sam Devlin would give you a leed to small marine wood stoves?
I used a Dickson marine solid fuel stove on a micro cabin.....it worked well...but the relatively thin SS walls would no doubt not last with constant use

Just searched Sam Devlin and found the link to the boat
http://store.devlinboat.com/winterwren.aspx
If you look.....there is a small sovereign pipe up through the aft stbd cabin roof. Must be a very small stove. I still have the mag at home...picture of stove in mag by memory

[Bob J (ex-misfits)]

Here's a link to a little wood stove that seems a lot sturdier than the Dickson.
for the same $$.
http://cubicminiwoodstoves.com/

There's quite a few people on Sailnet that use a solid fuel stove to heat their boats. May be worth doing a site search.

[CapnK]

C2B - Interesting input from your friend, thanks. I've seen the Sardine, and know it has happy owners, but at $1200 for the stove it is just wayyy to far out of my budget, especially to be experimenting. :) That is what I have seen with a lot of the small stoves - they are nice, look like they would work and probably well, but the price - geesh! maybe if I already had experience with the method I would be a better judge of whether or not the price represented good value..?
Had not seen the Refleks before, checked them out. Price-wise they are very close to the more expensive stoves - $1K+ or so. They seem to use about the same amount of fuel to heat as do the forced air units (Webasto, Planar, Espar), but the forced air units - which probably do not have the same usable lifespan with so many more moving (breakable/wearing) parts - are considerably cheaper.

Frank - what are you using on the CP23PH? I imagine a nice heater comes in plenty handy where you are now. :) Yep - I can see the flue stack on the cabin top of Devlins boat, I'd bet that small of a space heats quickly. I would imagine that this search of mine would have a lot of relevance for 'tiny home' owners, like your little cabins. Have you used anything else for those besides the Dickinson? I agree that the 1-layer SST construction does not seem ideal for longevity of a stove/oven.

Misfits - Boom! That stove seems ideal - what looks to be good construction, perfect size, nicely done, and at a price which seems reasonable for a small, albeit nicely fashioned, metal box with a door. :)
In my search so far, I did find a very similar stove made in America - but it sells for US$799. Again, I looked at it longingly but that seems just too high a price to pay if you come to find out it doesn't work/you don't like it.
The Cubic Mini price of $449 is in CAD which is favorable for Americans right now, being about US$356. Shipping to here in SC is about CAD$87 (US$75 or so), so that's a total around US$450, delivered - an outstanding bargain, it looks like. With flue pipe and cap and all-in, about $600, which is cheaper than the most discounted, smallest version forced air diesels of Webasto/Espar, and right at the price of the sketchily-supported Russian version of the same.

[Frank]

That is much better built than the Dickson
Cool lil stove

I've got espar on the 23
Not room for anything else

[CapnK]

Joe - I had not heard of these - "Rocket Mass Heater". Probably not applicable on the boat due to space requirements, but they apparently use about 1/3 the wood that a regular stove does. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHS6vzVQr90

[CapnK]

Frankie - how you like the Espar? Is yours the smallest one? Any idea of fuel usage yet?

[Frank]

Yep.....tiny

It is super easy on fuel. Mind you....I only run it low in evenings, off over night and about 30 minutes in the morning until we get underway.

There is a chart online somewhere.....but it truly is easy on fuel.

[Bob J (ex-misfits)]

Forgot to mention this yesterday, Tiny Tot another small wood burner for boats. Never seen one up close but it seems to have a following amongst the boat wood burning crowd.

[CapnK]

Yep, I almost bought a Tint Tot last year, spoke with the people who make them. Owners rave about them. They are not cheap, either, but are about the cheapest.

I'll post more later w/pics, but my 'experimental unit' came in yesterday, so I ran a burn test last night. Had temps over 420 degrees (apparently, that is all my thermometer registers) in under 15 minutes, using dried bamboo and some firelog, neither of which is comparable in available BTU's to hardwood or coal, and also a lot quicker burning. Made a good bit of smoke, but did not have a flue. I think with that, and 'harder' fuel, it would have been a cleaner and hotter burn. Am experimenting *outside* of boat and in clear air, until I get a handle on things. :)

[CapnK]

Instead of still pics, here's a video I shot of the burn test. The stove is called either a 'toy' or 'salesman sample' of a Spark cast iron pot belly stove. It measures right at 13.5" height, and 8" square around the sides. There are lots of them out there, some sell for several hundred dollars, but I found this one on eBay for only $125, or about 1/3 the cost of a Tiny Tot/Pet, the nearest type of current product available.

I've done 2 burns with it now, and will do several more before trying it on the boat, some with different material for fuel, as all I have tried til now is bamboo and fire log, both of which burn really fast. The thing definitely kicks out heat! My thermometer cannot read over 420F, and I can get that temp on parts of the stove in less than 20 minutes, and on the entire stove in about 30. I have yet to try it with a flue, going to try and find something to use for that tomorrow.

Here's the video (no audio): https://youtu.be/dpBTSdqnQ40

[Cyric30]

CapK.

Yes the Mass heaters are awesome from a fuel standpoint. ive got plans for a cabin one and the stuff to do it i just cant get time to do it. But as you say most are not suitable for a boat, but i have seen some done that are made small "relative to the size of most others" but i did not study them to hard. while i dont know most of the theory behind it i bet with a little ingenuity something that could uses a home-made cast core and a metal 5Gal bucket for the stack could be made, you might have to use a computer fan with adjustable speed to run the drafting right but for the fuel efficiency it might be worth it.
i would direct you to these forums for some knowledgeable ppl and help, i prefer the first one, but more folks on the second.
http://donkey32.proboards.com/

http://www.permies.com/forums/f-125/rocket-stoves

hope this is of some use

[CharlieJ]

Good looking little stove. would not have room for it in any case, nice looks good.

[stumpy]

Used a Cole-Hersee bulkhead mounted stove on my Cheoy Lee 27 when I had her...most sea time was between the Salish Sea and Alaska, so a heater was nice.  They were made years ago in Seattle...small sheet-metal stoves.  Pro:  "Tin" stoves start producing noticeable heat immediately.  Con:  There's no heat retention in the material, so you have to feed the beast way too often.  I tried many fuels...wood, coal, charcoal, etc.  The one that worked best ended up being those crummy Presto-logs.  Cheap, put out heat, and they chunk up into hockey-puck sized pieces that make easy stove fuel.
That being said that Cubic Mini is very inviting at the price.  A bit much for my current little Electra but one will be going in my Ariel or Bristol 27...when I find her. :-)

[ralay]

JW is super interested in getting a wood stove for the boat, but I keep finding public health resources on the respiratory health problems caused by using wood stoves in houses.  Since we live aboard full time, I feel wary of having a wood stove on in such a small space all winter long.  I doubt it'll make much of difference for smokers, but for folks with tenderer lungs, I wonder if it's an issue.  Propane is supposed to be a lot better for indoor air quality, but our propane heater (Force 10 Cozy Cabin Heater) just isn't up to the task.  Diesel, maybe?