New Topic: SSB Radios Lets Talk Some, it been to Quiet

[Cyric30]

OK All, its to Quiet we need something to Discuss
Ive been Looking at various means of communication, and im a bit confused about SSB radios.
Question
1: do you uses one?
2: do many ppl use them?
3: other than the Cost, whats the difference in a CB with SSB and a Marine SSB radio?
4: Anyone have or know a Kiss work around to the Expensive Marine SSB?
5: are they worth the time and expense to have?
6: good brands?

This is just something to get the forum talking some, we've been to quiet :)

[Godot]

I'm not an expert. Never used one. But I've read a lot over the years. I'll take a shot at answering the questions. I may be wrong, though.

1: do you uses one?

Not me. Someday I'll do some serious long distance sailing and maybe then I'll get one.

2: do many ppl use them?

Lots of big boat cruisers use them. Probably not too many Sailfarers, though.

3: other than the Cost, whats the difference in a CB with SSB and a Marine SSB radio?

The channels they work on. CBs have access to 40 channels 26.965 MHz to 27.405 MHz, and the SSB capability gives access to the USB and LSB of those 40 channels. Range will be rather short. Marine SSB works on 2 MHz-26 MHz, and the range can be thousands of miles.

4: Anyone have or know a Kiss work around to the Expensive Marine SSB?

A receive only radio is pretty affordable. Then there is used, I guess.

5: are they worth the time and expense to have?

Those that use them often consider them a necessity. Those that don't consider them a luxury. I strongly suspect it all comes down to how much excess cash you have. If I had the excess cash I'd probably be out cruising the world. If I had enough after doing that I'd buy the radio. You tell me, is it worth it?

6: good brands?

Dunno.

[ralay]

Different radio frequency allocations also have restrictions on max transmission power.  CB radios are restricted to 12W for SSB and 4W for some other forms of modulation, so the radio you buy will be hobbled to ensure it conforms.  A Ham radio, by comparison is permitted to transmit at 1500W on most bands.  The greater your range, the more likely the FCC is to require you to be licensed.

[ralay]

Also, a Ham HF radio will be capable of receiving and transmitting at the marine SSB frequencies.  They're also a bit cheaper than marine SSB radios.  However, marine radios are held to higher standards for reducing interference/spurious emissions, and it is illegal to transmit on the marine bands with a radio that doesn't. Meet those requirements (ex- a Ham radio.)  BUT, you can transmit on any frequency necessary in an emergency, so it would be possible to get a Ham radio to talk to Hams, get free email, and listen to the marine bands, but you could only talk on those frequencies to make a distress call.  Of course, you have to get a Ham General license,  who h is about $15, but does require some studying. 

I got a Ham license, but we never bother to get a radio.  Too expensive.  It's not just the radio, but the antenna, new backstay fittings, an antenna tuner, a ground plane, etc.  I think we'll just get a receiver to get the weather and leave the offshore distress calls to the EPIRB. 

[cap-couillon]

CB channels US specific not international minimum licensing requirements. Not really that useful for marine use.
Marine SSB International frequencies but restricted to those channels. Long distance communications possible. Usually requires "backstay" antenna with associated costs. Requires ships license from FCC No exam.
Ham SSB International frequencies with much wider range than marine SSB channels. Requires amateur radio license (with exam). Access to free email, cruiser nets, weather nets, etc. Same antenna requirements as marine SSB.

Bottom line (IMHOP) if you intend to do any serious off shore cruising, SSB is a great addition, and I would go for a ham license. Local clubs are more than happy to give you assistance with licensing exam prep, and scrounging used or home brew equipment. 2 weeks off shore, its nice to hear another voice sometimes, not to mention getting some updates on conditions where you hope to end up

[Cyric30]

Thank you All for your Information.
i know a few ppl into Ham where im at, and there's several active clubs around, in fact the state ham conference is close to here soon, i might hope over there and quiz some the guys about it and marine applications, just to have some contacts for the future.
ive given the thought of a handheld receiver some thought and there not to expensive to have for weather reports and found a few other possibilities for using SSB through PC as well, while not the most practical it still would allow for email and weather fax for less than 100$
I just like to hear other ppl thoughts on subject and also get some conversation going as things have been a little quiet, not Discounting Franks TOTALLY AWESOME POSTS :)

[lance on cloud nine]

if a person lived inland in a house, is it possible (and legal) to use a SSB in your home to practice? To get comfortable with it before your really need it in a boat?

[Cyric30]

Hay Cloud nine
i dont figure it is legal, im sure its possible as long as you got the equipment such, as to using it to learn i dont know, thats up to ones own personal feelings.   :)

[lance on cloud nine]

that is pretty much as I figured. I just thought how nice it would be to thoroughly know the radio before shoving off.

[Cyric30]

Cloud Nine
I know others can correct me here if im wrong
but i don't believe theirs a test for SSB radio, just a licence fee, so you could do it at home if you like....also i haven't hard of anyone using a SSB radio and the authorities tracking them down for a ticket either, poop theirs pirate radio stations all over the country and they have trouble shutting them down :)

[Bubba the Pirate]

I'm not sure that its legal at home, but I agree - try it. I would suggest talking like you are aboard and only on marine bands. When I helped work on and crew on a Westsail 42 this spring, we were testing our SSB set up and antenna set up when the captain got onto a Ham frequency not a marine freq. He was asking for a signal check. Some Ham's asked him his call sign and then accused him of being in the wrong place with a marine license. In the end, I have no SSB experience because other priorities prevented us from getting it all the way set up. The captain did briefly talk to his brother in law - Charleston, SC to Miami on a marine band.

[Lars]

Land based ssb stations are pretty common  Chris Parker the ssb weather guru is based in orlando and  many more have home based stations. The license fee is $150 or so and lots of people including me do not bother with the license. I have never had it come up.  Without the license you are limited to ssb marine chanels because ham used call signs and most ssb nets just use boat names. 

[ralay]

@ lance:  What do you want to practice?  The protocol of talking the radio?  Or getting it set up? 

I'd think the biggest obstacle to practicing at home would be that you'd need to set up a very large antenna just to try it out.  On a boat, most people use their backstay as an antenna.  At home, you'd have to figure out some other way to rig up a very long antenna (20-50') in a safe way.  For instance, you don't want it to be in a place where someone can touch it while you're transmitting or they can be burned.  I think there are insulated antennas inside halyard like lines that can be used.  That might work at home if you had something tall enough to suspend it from.  Different antennas also have different gain patterns.  So what works on a boat with a totally clear horizon might not work best in your crowded neighborhood, etc.  The best practice would probably be on your boat with the gear you have there.

That said, I think that a lot of Ham clubs chip in to buy club radio equipment.  If you made contact with a club or went to a ham Field Day, you could probably find some folks who were interested in helping you get on the air.  Also, there are some websites where you can listen in on ham radio frequencies.  It would give you a sense of how folks operate. 

[cap-couillon]

One more comment...  If ya wanna try out MARINE SSB at home,  receive is fine, transmit is a no-no... use at your own risk. Antenna is easy, and not a huge risk for pets and children (or drinking adults). Again best advise is check out the local ham clubs. They live to pass along the information. A couple of weeks with the local boys, and your choice whether to go with Marine SSB or a "Ham" license will become pretty clear. They will tell you (and show you) more than you ever want to know.  Bottom line in my opinion, SSB is a great asset if you intend to do any serious "off shore" sailing. If not, it is still a great way to keep in touch with folks around the world.

Check in with the local "Ham" club... they will do a better job of answering your real-world questions than we can.

[lance on cloud nine]

back @ ralay - I would probably never mount a SSB in my current O'Day 23, but if I ever had a much larger boat I would consider having one. I have never even had a SSB mike in my hand, let alone any other experience - but - I often read of people that buy boats with an SSB and even then feel slightly confused about how to operate it. I would just enjoy really feeling like I kind of knew my way around one. A similar wish to someday soon becoming at ease with a sextant. Also it might be rewarding to touch base and make distant friends on a SSB?
edited to add - I would like to know more about how to set it up, and also protocol. I will do some reading on it. Thanks all.

[PommyDave]

I'm a newbie sailor, but I am an old hand at (federally-licensed) Amateur Radio. My callsign is VK2DMH, and I live in Sydney Australia. My ham qualification is the AOCP (Amateur Operator's Certificate of Proficiency), and I studied and passed my ticket in the 1970s -- back in the day it required Morse code to be able to use the shortwave/HF bands. Today it is called the Advanced license, and morse (CW) is not required, even though quite a few Amateurs still use the code, because it is 20 times more efficient at getting through than voice signals.

Earlier this week, I just took the exam for a Marine radio operator's license, which will allow me to legally use the VHF on my boat... and I will probably add a Marine SSB rig later. Certainly I will add a Ham Band SSB radio. There were 50 questions, multiple choice for the Marine license test. Nothing was deeply technical, and a lot of it was being able to remember which specific frequencies (or channels) were used for what purpose, such as 2.182 MHz (also called 2,182 kHz) which is a calling and emergency frequency. There are others in the 4 MHz, 6 MHz, 8 MHz, 12 MHz and 16 MHz shortwave/HF bands. And, technically speaking, the 2 MHz band is an MF (medium frequency band). It is not in the HF range (from 3 to 30 MHz).

Once I receive my Marine operator's permit, I have to apply to another department to get a ship's license for my boat. More money, sigh.

So for Marine SSB, you need an antenna system that covers at least six bands. And for Ham Radio SSB, you are looking at more than six bands again. It is easy to rig up an antenna for one HF band, but to cover 6 or 12 or even more bands, you need an antenna system that is frequency-agile. So usually this is accomplished on a boat by using an automatic antenna-tuner (an ATU) installed as close as possible to the wire antenna hung from the mast. You also need a counterpoise, that's a kind of "ground" to balance the wire in the air... since one side of the antenna needs to "push" against the other side to radiate your signal out to the sky. The counterpoise is usually a long length of wire or wires run from the "ground" connection on your ATU (tuner) and running under the deck right through the vessel. Sometimes it is done with copper or foil strips, and sometimes the ground/counterpoise is even connected to a metal plate underneath the hull. (The proper terminology escapes me right now.)



As a licensed Ham, I am only allowed to transmit on Ham (Amateur Radio) frequencies. I can listen to Marine and other traffic, but cannot transmit unless it is an emergency, like with lives in real danger. I must also use my government-allocated callsign at the start and end of my contact, and every 10 minutes I am on the air. And the person I speak to must also be a licensed and qualified person. Marine radio ops must give their boat's name and callsign with every transmission.

In an emergency, licensed hams may use any radio frequency where they can find someone to help them, but understand, unless you use a known emergency channel, who do you expect to be there, patiently waiting to hear you? This isn't like a cop calling for backup.

It is illegal to operate a marine radio from on land, unless you have a a marine station license for that location. And the regulations all over the world state that Hams may only talk to Hams, and Marine ops to other Marine ops (ships or shore stations). Many folk hold both licenses, and probably even more folk have neither. But it is illegal for a licensed person to talk to an unlicensed person, unless it is to save a life.

One of the most important subjects a radio operator is required to know and understand by law, is how to handle an emergency call if you hear one, and how to put one out correctly. This covers Mayday (Distress) calls, and also Pan Pan (Urgency) calls, and Security/Safety messages. We also have to know all the International phonetic words for the alphabet, such as alpha, bravo, delta etc., and numbers won too free fower fife etc. I have misspelled the numbers deliberately to emphasis the pronunciation. You also need to know when to say OVER and when to say OUT, and what's the difference. And you never say OVER AND OUT. They are mutually exclusive.

Cheers and 73.

Many break the law and get away with it, but your FCC (or our ACMA) does prosecute offenders from time to time, and if you travel overseas you can be asked for your operator's license and/or boat's radio license when you clear their Customs procedures.