Shallow Draft Blue Water Cruisers

[Owly055]

Just thinking of one Ya missed on your list..

Pacific Seacraft Dana 24

Heavy built
Great layout
3'8" draft by memory

Certainly a very capable smaller boat

Frank:
     I left that one off my list due to the length.  I arbitrarily cut it off at 26' (not carved in stone).    And I chose 4' as the maximum draft, and 8' as minimum beam.  All else being equal, the optimal boat should have maximum waterline length in the low 30's, and a broad beam, with a fairly shallow draft, and sufficient ballast down low for stability.  A fat boat like the Bayfield 29 and 31 offers some stability advantages when heeled over, allowing for it's shallow draft of only 3'6", the ballast being further outboard as the boat heels.   There are both the matter of waterline length / hull speed, and of course internal storage space........ Not to mention comfort in the cabin, when it comes to long passages of many weeks at sea.   Ultimately there is no formula where I can simply run a spreadsheet with relative values placed on specifications and yield up the perfect boat.   As with all such choices, the ultimate decision will be based on gut feeling about the boat as much as anything.  I left a number of others off the list simply because I forgot them.   
     A person could spend years choosing and buying the "perfect" boat, and never go anywhere, but it doesn't make sense to go off  half cocked either, and end up having to buy a second boat because the first is lacking.

Here are some additional boats that meet my criteria......... As commented by someone previously, they vary greatly in price and availability:

Cheoy Lee Offshore 26    3'9" draft
Morris Francis 26 3' 10"
Pearson Ariel 26 3'8"
Cape Dory 27   4'
Dockerell 27 3'
Sea Sprite 27    3'2"
Francis Herrescyhoff H 28   3'11"
Liberty 28   4'
Rhodes Ranger 28   3'10"
Islander 29  3'8"
Cheoy Lee Offshore 31   3'10"
Pacific Seacraft 31 shoal draft version   4'


                                                                                    H.W.

[Frank]

If looks count.....those Sea Sprite 27's sure are pretty!! Great lines!!

Hope your dreams come true!!

[Owly055]

I made some mistakes in my list, duplicated a few, accidentally included one I should have left out (due to a typo)

In evaluating the list, purely on specifications / priorities, a few boats pop out as being ideal, none of which I've sailed or sailed on:

The Westerly Konsort and Bayfield 29 (or 32 which is actually a 30' boat) stand at the top of the list due to shallow draft and broad beam.   The Bayfields are plentiful and pretty affordable, the Konsort is not.   The Islander 29 comes in very close, followed by the Cheoy Lee 28 and 31, the 28 having broader beam and shallower draft. 

     The Konsort really stands at the very top of my list, I like everything about it except the galley location....... Putting the galley forward seems to be a typically British bit of backwardness, but you can't have everything........... The virtually identical twin with the fin keel, the longbow is widely available in a reasonable price range.... Too bad they didn't build it with a shoal draft full keel with cutaway forefoot ;-(   Because of price and availability, the Bayfields  are really where I'm focused, with the 29 being preferable to the 32 which is really only a foot longer.  I consider a V berth kind of useless for my purposes, and prefer the space to be in the saloon, though using the entire forward compartment as a head is a bit absurd.   I would convert it to other uses.  The listed length is deceptive on these due to all the garbage on the bow (bow pulpit and bowsprit).    The LWL of the Bayfield 29 is only 21'9" compared to the Konsort at 25'7".......  a HUGE difference of 6' on the water line.  The Islander 29 has a 23' LWL, and the Cheoy Lee 28 has a 22' LWL, and the 31 has 23'4".    The LWL is going to effect speed, and may have a significant effect on interior space depending on hull shape.   
Obviously pointing ability and leeway, and seagoing comfort are not factored in here, nor are many other factors.
     Any way you slice it, I will be looking for a reasonably priced Konsort above all others on my list, but all are boats with good reputations.  The Konsorts seem mostly to be on the other side of the Atlantic, and pretty expensive, but I have no objection to buying a boat over there.


                                               H.W.

                                                                                   

[Frank]

When do you plan on 'heading out'?

[Godot]

I wrote something earlier; but it got accidentally zapped by a certain, not to be named by me, personage. So I will try again.

I own a Bayfield 29 that I've reviewed elsewhere. I think Seeker is a great boat; but there are definite compromises. Please forgive this extensive essay. I hope I hit all your issues.

Interior comfort is quite decent for one or a couple, at least the way I have her set up. As you mentioned, she is really less than 29' on deck. But by eliminating the v-berth I think she is still quite roomy.

The forward head is really great. It doesn't take up all the space in the bow. There is a large area in the pointy end for a chain locker (if you don't keep it all in the deck anchor locker well). Aft of that is a hanging locker. I think it is a little smaller than it needs to be and it will be relatively easy for me to make it larger by pushing several inches (8 or 10 maybe?) towards the bow in a little area aft of where the chain locker ends, and down to where the holding tank used to be before I transitioned to a Natures Head.  Aft of the hanging locker is a silly little seat, and then a toilet to Starboard and a Sink/Vanity to port. Behind the toilet is a good sized cabinet. There is decent stowage inside the sink vanity, and a little medicine cabinet up top. The silly seat hides some now unused seacocks (head intake/exhaust and an unused Air-conditioning intake) which I am eventually going to seal up so I can turn the area into a tool locker. Seeker came with pressure water and a shower in the head. I used it once. It worked. I took it out.

A forward head is not the best thing when in a seaway; but I've used it OK in some seasick inducing waves; so it can work. If things get bad enough, a plastic bucket is a reliable alternative.

The head came with a beautiful teak door. I removed it and replaced it with a curtain. The door just interfered too much with the main cabin living area for my taste. The curtain is also quieter.

In the main cabin I keep the Starboard berth pulled out into a double. I'm actually in the process of making it a permanent double by building some cabinetry underneath for some additional stowage. This will also let me increase the width a little bit. A permanent double is not the best seaberth (although, at least for the sailing I've done, it did OK-ish); but there is still the Port settee and the two quarter berths, all of which should be decent in a seaway.

Ergonomically, the settees are not the most comfortable. With the backrest in the down position and the thick cushion that came on Seeker, it doesn't leave enough seat to be comfy. The backrest is permanently off of the starboard double, and I have some plans which I think will improve the port settee. It might just be a matter of removing the thick back padding and replacing with something less cushy.

The center-line table is nice enough when in use; but mostly I found it got in the way so I removed it. I'm never out of reach of a handhold. My short girlfriend, however, doesn't like using the overhead handrails so has a short distance to cross from the galley bulkhead to the mast without something to grab onto. If you leave the table in place you won't get thrown far; but you may find yourself with the occasional bruise as you bump into it.

There is stowage underneath both the starboard and port settees, and cabinets above.

The galley on the starboard side is not huge; but it is big enough to be functional. When I am disciplined enough to keep the nav station clear of clutter I use that as additional prep space. The stove is, sadly, not gimbaled. I do have a propane canister Seaswing, or something like it (the brand and model escape me currently) which works quite well; but is limited to simple meals. Eventually, I'd like to sacrifice the starboard quarterberth in order to extend the galley back a few feet and allow a much larger cockpit locker on that side. Mostly all I use the berth for is to stow the port-a-bote seats, and a plastic bin filled with extra food anyhow.

The nav station on the port side is mostly used as a desk for a laptop, a workbench, and a horizontal surface to throw things that really belong elsewhere. Oh, and the top opening ice box is below it (plus a side opening little pantry which is awesome). I don't think the insulation in the icebox is up to par for a long trip. Maybe it was when new; but not now. It's a decent sized box, though. My intent is to insulate the poop out of it, making it much smaller, and converting it to refrigeration. I've mocked it up and I think it will work great. When I eventually get to it.

The port quarter berth is just a little short for my liking (I'm 5'10"). I'll probably extend it back six inches or so after I finish messing with the starboard quarterberth.

The cockpit is good enough. The seats are a little low to comfortably see over the cabin without sitting on a cushion. The seats are also a little too far apart for a short person to brace against while well heeled over. It can be dealt with. The starboard cockpit locker is very small as the quarterberth takes up a lot of the space. The port locker is better; but still not commodious. The quarterberth mod mentioned above will turn the starboard locker into a decent sized box.

With a tiller (like on Seeker), if one person is handling the steering while another is handling the sheets, it gets crowded when tacking. I understand that those helming Bayfield 29s with wheel steering have to deal with the mainsheet trying to take their heads off every tack not to mention an inconveniently placed backstay. But it was a popular option and I haven't heard too many people wanting to convert to tiller, so maybe I overstate the problem.

The Bayfield 29 is a cutter rigged boat, so there are extra sheets to deal with. I believe that aft led halyards was standard. That is not to my liking and I may someday move the halyards to the mast where they belong. I wish the mast was a few feet taller and the sails a bit bigger. I think it would help with the light summer breezes.

The side decks are wide enough to make passage forward comfortable. The foredeck is big enough to make you think about handholds when working up there. I have a 10' Port-a-bote that I just barely have enough room to assemble/disassemble on the foredeck.

Bayfield 29s like a good breeze. They absolutely do not like light air. I have a drifter that I fly like an asymmetrical spinnaker that helps when the wind is from the right direction; but I'd hate to spend much time sailing to weather in a zephyr. It took me years to admit to myself; but I love (on those days I don't despise) my diesel engine. I'd rather not live life to a schedule; but the reality is I need to get to work on Monday's, and the Yanmar let's me get sailing without having to worry too much about the wind taking a siesta. She heaves to just fine. I've sailed in winds over thirty knots to weather without drama. I've been caught in pop up t-storms of well over forty knots; but I just tend to heave to when that happens.

The full keel means she tracks pretty well. It also means she is not raceboat maneuverable. Backing up under power is an exercise that can most generously be called "interesting," and docking in a tight marina is a real test of seamanship. Warps aren't only for the Starship Enterprise!

For long crossings, or the possibility of even a circumnavigation there are a couple things to consider.

I think if you aren't foolish about seasons, a Bayfield 29 will go anywhere you want. She heaves to well enough, that with the proper gear you would probably make it through being moderately foolish. Although I've never sailed her in a real storm, so maybe I'm wrong. I have a sea-anchor I'd like to try someday.

If you put a lot of stock in the capsize screen ratio, according to Carl's sailboat calculator, the Bayfield 29, at 2.03, is very slightly above the magical 2.0 number. If you boost the displacement a little bit to 8500# as suggested by former Bayfield president, Jake Rogerson in Canadian Yachting it comes to 1.99. I've certainly never felt unsafe in any conditions I've encountered; but there are a lot of conditions I've never encountered.

The standard 20 gallon water tankage (one tank under the starboard settee) is insufficient for a long trip. It shouldn't be a major problem to add additional tankage under the settees, though. If you get rid of the black water tank, that space can also hold a decent sized tank. I'm not sure how much water is really necessary; but increasing tankage to 100 gallons or more I don't think would pose a problem.

The boat comes with a small twenty gallon aluminum diesel tank. It sits in the bilge, where mine got pinhole leaks. I had the bottom three inches cut off and put a new bottom on. I think it is around 17 gallons now, so is even less generous. Long trips between fueling stations where extensive motoring is expected could be problematic and require the dreaded deck stowed jerry cans. Happily, the thirteen horsepower Yanmar 2GM engine is not too thirsty. At a reasonable cruise I'm guessing it uses quite a bit less than half a gallon an hour. When pushing it hard (which I often do now-a-days because diesels like to be run hard and I like to put fresh fuel in regularly) I think it may use as much as three quarters of a gallon an hour while increasing the speed by no more than a knot or so. I plan on ten nautical miles/gallon at an economical RPM at a little better than five knots when in a calm; but really think I'm doing closer to 15.

Overall, I think the Bayfield is an excellent boat. I've tried to be honest about her shortcomings. She would be a terrific Bahamas boat with the shallow 3.5' draft. I would expect her to do fine crossing an ocean in the appropriate season. She is quite comfortable for living aboard at anchor. If you are a really hard core gung ho type who likes to sail the really nasty places, the initial stability advantages of the wide beam might fall victim to the ultimate stability disadvantage of the same wide beam. If you like to sail where the wind is more myth than reality, then you may need to use the engine more than you desire.

Compromise. <sigh>

[Godot]

I'm going to try and be on the chat tonight. If you have some specific Bayfield questions and desire a short format conversation instead of a book length post, I will do my best to answer any questions.

[w00dy]

We went back and forth to FL in Woody's Aleutka (25' bilge keel) with an outboard on a bracket on one side of the canoe stern.  I guess it worked, but it always seemed kind of iffy to me.  There was no way to set the height of the outboard so that it was correctly positioned in rough waves.  If it was set high, the prop would come out of the water with a terrible whine, especially if one or both of us went forward.  If we set it low enough that the prop stayed in the water, it looked like we might drown the thing.  Maybe a set up like Charlie has where the outboard is in its own well in the stern is better?  Maybe a boat with a full transom with more buoyancy would carry an outboard better?  Our last two boats have had canoe sterns, so it's hard for me to remember how a wide transom rides.  Either way, having had both, I'm happy to have an inboard engine.  Well, until it needs to come out, I guess.

With a long shaft outboard designed for a sailboat, mounted to a lifting bracket, there are solutions to these issues.   Evinrude offers the Sailmaster outboard which has a 10" longer than normal shaft.  There is also at least one company that offers conversion kits to extra long shaft.   It's clearly not a unique situation.   It seems to me that it is probably worth the effort to go this route for the advantages in internal space and maneuverability.   The primary use for power on a sailboat should be maneuvering in port.  An outboard excels in this area.

                                                                                                            H.W.

FWIW, the outboard in question was a long shaft on an adjustable bracket. Not perfect, but it worked in most situations. Counter intuitively, perhaps, the times we had problems with the prop coming out and cavitating were when we were inshore in a steep chop. Our boat did have the tendency to hobby horse a bit, perhaps because of the way she was laden, or perhaps because of her canoe stern and rather fine ends.

We got along fine with our outboard and it served well enough as main and dinghy engine, while being relatively light, taking up little room, and being new, required little troubleshooting or work outside of basic maintenance. However, looking back, it was incapable of providing any power generation, was somewhat challenging to safely operate (hanging far astern), and was also vulnerable to damage or even loss. Still, for us, on that boat, at that time, it worked. I liked being able to lift the 6hp Sailpro off the transom bracket and attach it to our inflatable. It would push our Aleutka at close to hull speed or bring our dinghy up on a plane. Had we needed to make repairs, we could have removed it and done so easily. Also, the whole system was relatively inexpensive new. A good (or at least decent) used outboard could be had for even less.

However, having owned and operated an inboard diesel, I would not go back to an outboard driven boat, unless the boat was fairly small. Most vintage diesels are simple, robust, and reliable sources of both propulsion and power generation. The tankage and total system does take up quite a bit of space, but I feel it is worth the price, for its utility. Also, when it comes to space utilization, I think that it makes more sense to combine systems if possible, so I would prefer a single engine for both power and propulsion, as opposed to two separate engines, one as a generator and one as a boat-pusher. For us, on this boat, at this time, it works (most of the time)!

While I empathize with the ideal of minimizing engine usage, in practice, we truly rely on it's usage for many functions, on almost every passage. Like the other technologies that we embrace to make sailing a recreational sport, I think reliable mechanical propulsion has it's place. It opens doors to go upwind, or against the wind and current. It both an added safety factor as well as a comfort factor, which can be seen as its own safety factor, in a way.

Of course, everyone will have their own goals, attitudes and practices. I will not try to argue what is the best choice for anyone else. I will say that my views have evolved over the course of years of cruising, multiple boats, systems, and that while I once idealized ideas of engine less sailing, I have come over to the dark side! Who knows...maybe one day I will even own a stink pot!  :o  I think that will be a long way off though, if ever.

I will also say that the idea of hopping on a 22 footer with a small cabin and being able to sail around beautiful waters with no engine is delightfully appealing. Maybe someday I'll live in a place where blue waters and islands abound, where I'm in no hurry to get anywhere, and where I don't need to change the oil...ever! That's not the life we're living atm...Instead we're living on a fat cruising boat, working our way up the east coast of the USA. Just a different kind of sailing I guess.

I also love the feeling of the boat flying along on her own, perfectly balanced, the wind-vane doing the steering, and the beautiful sun silently charging up our batteries. Since we've gotten better at planning our passages and outfitting our boat, we've definitely needed to use the engine less than on previous trips. We still use it plenty, don't get me wrong, but I think we've come a long way since our initial days of motor sailing down the ICW.

There are always going to be trade-offs with any design choice. Being clear and honest about your actual vs. intended vs. idealistic usage is half of the battle. I suppose that may just boil down to hard earned experience. Sometimes you don't really know what you like until you get a good mouthful of it. For example, it's fine to say that you will refrain from using your engine to make port but rather tack back and forth for hours, or days, out of pure idealism. I can say from personal experience that I have not been able to keep my hand off the keys  :D

Another example: Even though we've sailed many miles and done what I'd consider a fair bit of cruising over the last decade, I can't honestly say that we've done a very good job of embracing the totally carefree life of cruising without a schedule. Even though we don't have very many responsibilities, it seems like we are still getting caught up in the need to make a plan and try to enact it. I think we could improve on this a lot still, but my point, in short, is that even if you don't have a regular job or are attempting to simply meander around in no hurry, it seems like there is always something to keep you moving along, whether its simply the weather, the tide, the customs office, the dock-master telling you to get out of town, or (god forbid) your own boredom or desire for a change of scenery.

Whatever your design choices, I guess it's good to remember that no boat is perfect, and the one you have beats the best one on the internet most days :)

[CapnK]

There is a Cheoy Lee Luders 30 for sale in almost 'ready to go' condition right now, check the Savannah Craigslist (it's in Yachtworld for $10K) - still finishing, but looks like most of the big work is done - for only $6K. Needs sails, but *that* is a steal.
The guy won't trade me for my Islander 36, I asked. :D He is outfitting an OI 41.

Re: electrically miserly refrigeration - Frank has, like I do, an Engel fridge/freezer. They only draw .8-2.3amps/h; the 2.3 is when freezing down after defrost, compressor running non-stop.
Once stable temp is reached, they hardly run at all. It is hard to hear, but mine cycles less than a minute out of every 10-15.
A dial numbered 0-5 determines interior temps; mine freezes stuff at about 2, I have never put it over 2.5. I'd bet you could make block ice at 5. :)
Awesome machines, pretty expensive and a luxury for sure, and worth every penny and amp, IMO. :D

[CharlieJ]

Great post Ralay.. You guys have now gone past my northern most point cruising

[Owly055]

Thanks for the excellent review..... I've pretty much gone over the photos and info I can find on the BF 29, and am petty familiar with the layout.   I agree with you about the galley.   With the quarter berth sacrificed, it could be a  much better setup.  U shape is preferable simply for the ability to brace yourself.   A U shape with a butt strap makes for a pretty secure work space.   Sacrificing the quarter berth would also logically allow you to install a gimbal stove which any serious seagoing boat should have as far as I'm concerned.   My ideas with regard to the head are also similar to yours, and I would probably convert to a composting head.   A potential work space / tool locker.   I have to have a place to work on stuff.  I see the area as easily converted potential space.   Your curtain idea makes sense.   There is not a lot of "prime real estate" on a small boat, so the trade off is what to do with that space.   If you use it for one thing, it's not available for another thing.  The center of motion is where you want to eat, sleep, and s__t.    It's also where you want to relax and to navigate.   "Park Place and Boardwalk" comprise just a few feet.  Quarter berths are of questionable value to me, as I expect to be mostly single handing and they are anything but convenient to get in and out of, though they are difficult to get thrown out of ;-)   
     Only a fool goes out on a long crossing during an unfavorable season, but beyond 3 days from shore, weather reports are pretty questionable, so on a 3 week passage, anything can happen.  A good heavy bridle with solid anchor points at the corners of the transom for a series drogue is good insurance, as is an inflatable dinghy tied down "strategically" as some folks do.    The biggest issues in extreme conditions seem to be water intrusion where it shouldn't be getting in, and windows capable of holding up under a beating.   The boat can often take more of a beating than the people inside.  I remember Roger Taylor talking about laying on the cabin sole at the bottom of the companionway during a violent storm in the Greenland Sea.   

     I've spoken of the Northerly Konsort as a pretty ideal boat in terms of draft and beam, but the full keel of the Bayfield with keel hung rudder is a far more comforting setup than the two short bilge keels and unprotected transom hung rudder of the Konsort.  I can't help but wonder what the result of a rudder strike on the Konsort would be... What would fail?  The rudder itself, or the transom attachment.... perhaps ripping the bolts right out...... who knows.   That long well supported keel is a comfort.   The other downside to the bilge keel setup is that when you are aground, you are well and truly stuck.   You can't hook a line to a water filled dink from the mast head and heel the boat over to reduce draft.  In remote areas with coral heads and sand bars, these considerations are significant.  TowUS isn't two miles away nor is there likely to be a good boatyard nearby once you get out of the ICW.

                                                                                                  H.W.

I wrote something earlier; but it got accidentally zapped by a certain, not to be named by me, personage. So I will try again.

I own a Bayfield 29 that I've reviewed elsewhere. I think Seeker is a great boat; but there are definite compromises. Please forgive this extensive essay. I hope I hit all your issues.

Interior comfort is quite decent for one or a couple, at least the way I have her set up. As you mentioned, she is really less than 29' on deck. But by eliminating the v-berth I think she is still quite roomy.

The forward head is really great. It doesn't take up all the space in the bow. There is a large area in the pointy end for a chain locker (if you don't keep it all in the deck anchor locker well). Aft of that is a hanging locker. I think it is a little smaller than it needs to be and it will be relatively easy for me to make it larger by pushing several inches (8 or 10 maybe?) towards the bow in a little area aft of where the chain locker ends, and down to where the holding tank used to be before I transitioned to a Natures Head.  Aft of the hanging locker is a silly little seat, and then a toilet to Starboard and a Sink/Vanity to port. Behind the toilet is a good sized cabinet. There is decent stowage inside the sink vanity, and a little medicine cabinet up top. The silly seat hides some now unused seacocks (head intake/exhaust and an unused Air-conditioning intake) which I am eventually going to seal up so I can turn the area into a tool locker. Seeker came with pressure water and a shower in the head. I used it once. It worked. I took it out.

A forward head is not the best thing when in a seaway; but I've used it OK in some seasick inducing waves; so it can work. If things get bad enough, a plastic bucket is a reliable alternative.

The head came with a beautiful teak door. I removed it and replaced it with a curtain. The door just interfered too much with the main cabin living area for my taste. The curtain is also quieter.

In the main cabin I keep the Starboard berth pulled out into a double. I'm actually in the process of making it a permanent double by building some cabinetry underneath for some additional stowage. This will also let me increase the width a little bit. A permanent double is not the best seaberth (although, at least for the sailing I've done, it did OK-ish); but there is still the Port settee and the two quarter berths, all of which should be decent in a seaway.

Ergonomically, the settees are not the most comfortable. With the backrest in the down position and the thick cushion that came on Seeker, it doesn't leave enough seat to be comfy. The backrest is permanently off of the starboard double, and I have some plans which I think will improve the port settee. It might just be a matter of removing the thick back padding and replacing with something less cushy.

The center-line table is nice enough when in use; but mostly I found it got in the way so I removed it. I'm never out of reach of a handhold. My short girlfriend, however, doesn't like using the overhead handrails so has a short distance to cross from the galley bulkhead to the mast without something to grab onto. If you leave the table in place you won't get thrown far; but you may find yourself with the occasional bruise as you bump into it.

There is stowage underneath both the starboard and port settees, and cabinets above.

The galley on the starboard side is not huge; but it is big enough to be functional. When I am disciplined enough to keep the nav station clear of clutter I use that as additional prep space. The stove is, sadly, not gimbaled. I do have a propane canister Seaswing, or something like it (the brand and model escape me currently) which works quite well; but is limited to simple meals. Eventually, I'd like to sacrifice the starboard quarterberth in order to extend the galley back a few feet and allow a much larger cockpit locker on that side. Mostly all I use the berth for is to stow the port-a-bote seats, and a plastic bin filled with extra food anyhow.

The nav station on the port side is mostly used as a desk for a laptop, a workbench, and a horizontal surface to throw things that really belong elsewhere. Oh, and the top opening ice box is below it (plus a side opening little pantry which is awesome). I don't think the insulation in the icebox is up to par for a long trip. Maybe it was when new; but not now. It's a decent sized box, though. My intent is to insulate the poop out of it, making it much smaller, and converting it to refrigeration. I've mocked it up and I think it will work great. When I eventually get to it.

The port quarter berth is just a little short for my liking (I'm 5'10"). I'll probably extend it back six inches or so after I finish messing with the starboard quarterberth.

The cockpit is good enough. The seats are a little low to comfortably see over the cabin without sitting on a cushion. The seats are also a little too far apart for a short person to brace against while well heeled over. It can be dealt with. The starboard cockpit locker is very small as the quarterberth takes up a lot of the space. The port locker is better; but still not commodious. The quarterberth mod mentioned above will turn the starboard locker into a decent sized box.

With a tiller (like on Seeker), if one person is handling the steering while another is handling the sheets, it gets crowded when tacking. I understand that those helming Bayfield 29s with wheel steering have to deal with the mainsheet trying to take their heads off every tack not to mention an inconveniently placed backstay. But it was a popular option and I haven't heard too many people wanting to convert to tiller, so maybe I overstate the problem.

The Bayfield 29 is a cutter rigged boat, so there are extra sheets to deal with. I believe that aft led halyards was standard. That is not to my liking and I may someday move the halyards to the mast where they belong. I wish the mast was a few feet taller and the sails a bit bigger. I think it would help with the light summer breezes.

The side decks are wide enough to make passage forward comfortable. The foredeck is big enough to make you think about handholds when working up there. I have a 10' Port-a-bote that I just barely have enough room to assemble/disassemble on the foredeck.

Bayfield 29s like a good breeze. They absolutely do not like light air. I have a drifter that I fly like an asymmetrical spinnaker that helps when the wind is from the right direction; but I'd hate to spend much time sailing to weather in a zephyr. It took me years to admit to myself; but I love (on those days I don't despise) my diesel engine. I'd rather not live life to a schedule; but the reality is I need to get to work on Monday's, and the Yanmar let's me get sailing without having to worry too much about the wind taking a siesta. She heaves to just fine. I've sailed in winds over thirty knots to weather without drama. I've been caught in pop up t-storms of well over forty knots; but I just tend to heave to when that happens.

The full keel means she tracks pretty well. It also means she is not raceboat maneuverable. Backing up under power is an exercise that can most generously be called "interesting," and docking in a tight marina is a real test of seamanship. Warps aren't only for the Starship Enterprise!

For long crossings, or the possibility of even a circumnavigation there are a couple things to consider.

I think if you aren't foolish about seasons, a Bayfield 29 will go anywhere you want. She heaves to well enough, that with the proper gear you would probably make it through being moderately foolish. Although I've never sailed her in a real storm, so maybe I'm wrong. I have a sea-anchor I'd like to try someday.

If you put a lot of stock in the capsize screen ratio, according to Carl's sailboat calculator, the Bayfield 29, at 2.03, is very slightly above the magical 2.0 number. If you boost the displacement a little bit to 8500# as suggested by former Bayfield president, Jake Rogerson in Canadian Yachting it comes to 1.99. I've certainly never felt unsafe in any conditions I've encountered; but there are a lot of conditions I've never encountered.

The standard 20 gallon water tankage (one tank under the starboard settee) is insufficient for a long trip. It shouldn't be a major problem to add additional tankage under the settees, though. If you get rid of the black water tank, that space can also hold a decent sized tank. I'm not sure how much water is really necessary; but increasing tankage to 100 gallons or more I don't think would pose a problem.

The boat comes with a small twenty gallon aluminum diesel tank. It sits in the bilge, where mine got pinhole leaks. I had the bottom three inches cut off and put a new bottom on. I think it is around 17 gallons now, so is even less generous. Long trips between fueling stations where extensive motoring is expected could be problematic and require the dreaded deck stowed jerry cans. Happily, the thirteen horsepower Yanmar 2GM engine is not too thirsty. At a reasonable cruise I'm guessing it uses quite a bit less than half a gallon an hour. When pushing it hard (which I often do now-a-days because diesels like to be run hard and I like to put fresh fuel in regularly) I think it may use as much as three quarters of a gallon an hour while increasing the speed by no more than a knot or so. I plan on ten nautical miles/gallon at an economical RPM at a little better than five knots when in a calm; but really think I'm doing closer to 15.

Overall, I think the Bayfield is an excellent boat. I've tried to be honest about her shortcomings. She would be a terrific Bahamas boat with the shallow 3.5' draft. I would expect her to do fine crossing an ocean in the appropriate season. She is quite comfortable for living aboard at anchor. If you are a really hard core gung ho type who likes to sail the really nasty places, the initial stability advantages of the wide beam might fall victim to the ultimate stability disadvantage of the same wide beam. If you like to sail where the wind is more myth than reality, then you may need to use the engine more than you desire.

Compromise. <sigh>

[Owly055]

When do you plan on 'heading out'?

I'm looking at around 2 years to liquidate my business and other physical assets, and officially become a retired homeless drifter   ;-)    Well maybe sailor instead of drifter.

                                                   H.W.

[Owly055]

That does sound like a bargain........  The draft is beyond my target range at close to 5'

One thing to think about with regard to refrigeration is that ice is a great "battery"......... You know the old saying "make ice while the sun shines".....  well that's a paraphrase, it's actually hay you make while the sun shines.  It's worth thinking about storing energy this way, as refrigeration is a large electrical draw.  During the day when you are keeping a good watch, radar, AIS, nav lights, internal lighting, etc, do not need to be drawing power, so you should be storing solar power both in the batteries and in your "ice battery".   The "ice battery" can carry you through nights and cloudy days so what you do have can be running more important things.

Did I just coin a new terms?

                                                                              H.W.

There is a Cheoy Lee Luders 30 for sale in almost 'ready to go' condition right now, check the Savannah Craigslist (it's in Yachtworld for $10K) - still finishing, but looks like most of the big work is done - for only $6K. Needs sails, but *that* is a steal.
The guy won't trade me for my Islander 36, I asked. :D He is outfitting an OI 41.

Re: electrically miserly refrigeration - Frank has, like I do, an Engel fridge/freezer. They only draw .8-2.3amps/h; the 2.3 is when freezing down after defrost, compressor running non-stop.
Once stable temp is reached, they hardly run at all. It is hard to hear, but mine cycles less than a minute out of every 10-15.
A dial numbered 0-5 determines interior temps; mine freezes stuff at about 2, I have never put it over 2.5. I'd bet you could make block ice at 5. :)
Awesome machines, pretty expensive and a luxury for sure, and worth every penny and amp, IMO. :D

[Owly055]

You've said a lot in those last two paragraphs...............   The truth is as I've found out in the past with every endeavor I've ever launched into, that your priorities change, and what seems important at the outset may fade into insignificance later on.     My most recent endeavor for example is a case in point.   I launched into home brewing  (all grain), and brewed 124 batches in 2 years, ultimately going simpler rather than progressing into the complex systems many others resorted to.   Rather than progressing into ever stronger beers, I progressed into non-alchoholic brews...... go figure.   Could I see the end result at the beginning?   Of course not.   What I can see is that my natural progression is to simplicity, though there are certain things I must have.   For example, whatever boat I end up buying will be converted to an unstayed keel stepped mast with a single large junk rig sail.  That eliminates a huge number of parts and systems, all of which are failure points.   I am very fond of diesel engines..... I've worked on them all my adult life, and currently own 4 pieces of diesel equipment, only one of which is a vehicle (medium duty truck), so I may well end up living with a diesel marine engine.  There are definite advantages to an inboard.........It is however unrealistic to expect to carry enough fuel in a 30' boat to do very many hours of motoring on a long passage regardless of weather it's a Yanmar or a 4 cycle outboard.   I am however very confident of my ability to keep the Yanmar running, and service most anything that is going to go wrong with it ....... though they should provide 10K hours of reliable service if taken care of.  The main thing is to protect them from seawater where it doesn't belong.

                                    H.W.

There are always going to be trade-offs with any design choice. Being clear and honest about your actual vs. intended vs. idealistic usage is half of the battle. I suppose that may just boil down to hard earned experience. Sometimes you don't really know what you like until you get a good mouthful of it. For example, it's fine to say that you will refrain from using your engine to make port but rather tack back and forth for hours, or days, out of pure idealism. I can say from personal experience that I have not been able to keep my hand off the keys  :D

Another example: Even though we've sailed many miles and done what I'd consider a fair bit of cruising over the last decade, I can't honestly say that we've done a very good job of embracing the totally carefree life of cruising without a schedule. Even though we don't have very many responsibilities, it seems like we are still getting caught up in the need to make a plan and try to enact it. I think we could improve on this a lot still, but my point, in short, is that even if you don't have a regular job or are attempting to simply meander around in no hurry, it seems like there is always something to keep you moving along, whether its simply the weather, the tide, the customs office, the dock-master telling you to get out of town, or (god forbid) your own boredom or desire for a change of scenery.

[CharlieJ]

Another example: Even though we've sailed many miles and done what I'd consider a fair bit of cruising over the last decade, I can't honestly say that we've done a very good job of embracing the totally carefree life of cruising without a schedule. Even though we don't have very many responsibilities, it seems like we are still getting caught up in the need to make a plan and try to enact it. I think we could improve on this a lot still, but my point, in short, is that even if you don't have a regular job or are attempting to simply meander around in no hurry, it seems like there is always something to keep you moving along, whether its simply the weather, the tide, the customs office, the dock-master telling you to get out of town, or (god forbid) your own boredom or desire for a change of scenery.

And I have fussed at them for that :)  :)

[Jmandre]

I'm right there with you HW.  I'm not going to presuppose that I'll be able to get everywhere I want to go, but you start where you are and prioritize from there.  A few years ago, this was a distant thought for me.  Now, I have a good old boat that will take me quite far once I have her refitted and ready.  I'll start with the Gulf Coast and northern Bahamas, and we'll see after that.  If I know one thing about myself, it's that I'll end up in the least likely places (and that's always an awesome thing).  Don't let the 'wrapping up/ridding of' part intimidate you.  It's been a vastly liberating experience for me thus far.


J. Andre

[Owly055]

I'm right there with you HW.  I'm not going to presuppose that I'll be able to get everywhere I want to go, but you start where you are and prioritize from there.  A few years ago, this was a distant thought for me.  Now, I have a good old boat that will take me quite far once I have her refitted and ready.  I'll start with the Gulf Coast and northern Bahamas, and we'll see after that.  If I know one thing about myself, it's that I'll end up in the least likely places (and that's always an awesome thing).  Don't let the 'wrapping up/ridding of' part intimidate you.  It's been a vastly liberating experience for me thus far.


J. Andre

Andre:
     What is your good old boat?   I'm sorely tempted by the junk rigged Macwester MKII sitting in Santa Cruz harbor Tenrife, a couple of plane tickets away, already set up the way I want though with a bit more draft than I want....... considerable work done, hull worked over with anti osmosis coating and new bottom paint.   3 to 5 weeks cruise away from the Caribbean.  It's a bit late this year as the hurricane season is said to start in June...... 2 or 3 months ago would have been decent timing.   There is a lot to be said for buying what you want instead of having to modify and refit.   Whatever I finally settle on, will be junk rigged, the only rig that makes sense to me for a number of reasons.

     Wrapping and Ridding as you term it IS very intimidating.   It is the physical confirmation of the end of an era, and a stepping off into the unknown.   In my younger years, the confidence borne of ignorance and inexperience, made this pure excitement, the thrill of adventure, untempered by experience and wisdom.   Driven by adrenaline and testosterone and a confidence in my own immortality, risk, adventure, and danger were the spice of life.    I know that picking up the pieces and starting over is many times the challenge now than it was then when I didn't have a lifetime's accumulation of stuff and experience, when every door was an opportunity and opened into a new adventure.   
                                                         H.W.

[Jmandre]

My girl is a humble Balboa 27 (also known as a Balboa 8.2). Just a coastal cruiser, but a fairly heavily built one from the desk of Lyle Hess. For me, a large part of the confidence I have is borne of knowing my vessel, every nut and bolt. So in my case, I deliberately went looking for a cheaper derelict worth putting the time into. It is possible I will end up building a bigger vessel if time and circumstances allow. But if not, I spent the couple of years living aboard the B27 and confirmed that she'll work just fine if she has to. Much comfortable than I had imagined it would be, to be honest. Everything I'm doing now is toward refitting the B27 and streamlining shore bound life to the greatest extent possible. But a great part of my enjoyment comes from refitting and understanding the vessel (or machine) in every way. Many people derive nothing but stress from fixing things, so my path is not for everyone. To me, it seems that is the key here... Come to know what your strong suits are, discover what it is about the life you seek that brings you the greatest peace and happiness, and focus like a laser on those things. To be sure, a fair amount of self reliance is simply prudent in a long distance cruisers life, but all the rest? Fluff and bs, for the most part. Develop a firm understanding of what you seek, and then move on it.  Just my humble opinion... :)

[CharlieJ]

Totally understand refitting. Many here have seen these two pics before, but here they are again-

Before and after on Tehani

[Jmandre]

And for what's it's worth, starting from scratch when halfway (or more) through ones' life is never easy.  I had to start from pretty much scratch at 40 myself. Now 7 years later, I've built a small house, I have a solid boat to take me on many adventures, and I do what I want in my own time (for the most part). It's all in prioritizing where you want to be, and put aside everything else. There are sunsets waiting to be seen from the cockpit, and coves waiting to discovered! Adventure has no age limit.

[Jmandre]

Those pics of Tehani's refit warm my heart Charlie. I have a feeling we'll get along quite well.. ;)