design for cruising... long post with random thoughts

[Owly055]

     There are many design features that are important in cruising yachts.    To me having the galley at the bottom of the companion way is a  no brainer, and the head should really be there also.  Forward heads are great at anchor, convenient for people in the V berth..... if you have one.   B berths and stern cabins both are really more suitable for use at anchor than under weigh when you want to sleep as close to the center of motion as possible in a sea berth with a lee cloth, not far from the companion way so you can jump out of bed and be on deck quickly.  Huge cockpits don't make a lot of sense on a passage....... depending on boat and crew size.  Clearly there are times when everybody wants to lounge in the cockpit.  For a solo sailor or a sailing couple, how much space in the cockpit really  makes sense?   In the tropics, probably more than in the northern latitudes.  If you do day sailing or weekend sailing with 6 people in lovely weather, or racing, lots of cockpit makes sense.  If you are a solo sailor or couple doing the ARC or the Puddle Jump, or other long distance passages, cabin space may be far more valuable than cockpit space in many cases.   Does an open transom make sense?    To me not at all except for the fact that an open transom cannot get swamped.  The fact that you can step off into a dingy easily, and that it makes entry and exit to the water easier are attractive features, and it might make getting back aboard as a solo sailor while being dragged by your harness possible, where otherwise you might not have the strength....it could save your life..... but there are other options.    It also means that junk is not going to accumulate in the cockpit.   I vote no on open transoms. 
     Wheel versus tiller?   Nobody can agree on this one.   I'm a tiller person, because it's simple and reliable, and gives good feel.   I don't care a hoot about looking cool or yachty.   You are more likely to find me in cut off Levies and cheap tennis shoes (or barefoot), an ordinary button up work shirt and stocking cap, than dressed to the 9's while sailing.   Good foul weather and safety gear is where I'm going to put my money, not style or fashion.   
     Center cockpit / stern cockpit....... I could go either way on this one, but if a center cockpit is necessarily high, I lean toward stern.  Being close to the roll axis just makes sense..........But there's the pitch axis also to consider.  Clearly low and forward makes for a better ride, and less potential mal de mer.   But it goes without saying that none of us here ever have that problem ;-)
     What about cabin features?   Are quarter berths worthwhile, or is stowage in that area too valuable?  Stowage in large spaces with no separation makes things difficult to find or reach.  Cavernous spaces like deep cockpit lockers are guaranteed to swallow what you are looking for....... it'll be at the absolute bottom.   Stowage is extremely important, especially on a Bermuda rig sloop or cutter where half a dozen or more sails might be stowed below deck somewhere....probably in the V berth.  One of the many reasons I prefer the junk rig....... one sail.   Below deck, lots of well placed hand grips are very important (to me).  Rounded corners instead of sharp corners, good fiddles on all flat surfaces where you might put something.  If you get thrown, what are you going to land on, or hit and break your ribs?    A broad beam is nice, but it does add up to more distance to be thrown before you hit something.   The galley is important.   Can you brace yourself while cooking?  A U shape makes good sense.  Is everything within reach easily, or is the ice box across on the opposite side?   Is the stove mounted on gimbals?  and what sort of provision does it have to keep pots firmly in place?  Can you cook a meal while close hauled in a rough sea without getting scalded, etc?   The galley should be on the lee side ;-)  (I guess that means cooking on one tack only)  Does the sink have salt and fresh water taps?  Good foot pumps make far more sense than electric pumps, particularly for fresh water.     The nav station needs to be opposite the kitchen at the bottom of the companionway....... Oops.  That's where the head should be......... could they both be there?   Imagine sitting on the pot pouring over charts ;-)   It seems that a good chart table should have a plastic surface to cover the chart and protect it from any water that might find it's way down the companionway........ or hungry goats (Slocum), and should have some provision for storing charts you are not using at the moment.   Things like chart plotter, and radar &  AIS display ought to be able to be viewed, in some way from the cockpit, and at least one radio should be reachable without actually entering the cabin.... reach in and grab the mike.   
     I may be "newfashioned"....... but I'm really not a technology geek, I'm a late adopter.    Technology has given us some truly valuable tools such as GPS, chart plotters, AIS, and radar, not to mention marine radio and SSB.   It would be foolish as inexpensive and readily available as some of these things are in the context of a cruising boat, not to have some of them along.  But it would also be foolish not to have paper charts and know how to do celestial navigation at least in rudimentary form.   GPS is so ubiquitous and cheap, that it would be beyond foolish not to carry one on a long voyage, probably more than one.   A sextant is useless unless you know how to calculate your position from it, so some knowledge of how to use one is pretty important.........  A good reference book, and a calculator or two.    An Ipad offers countless features built into one device in the form of apps.   Charts and a chart plotter, GPS, and various navigational tools including apps to help you with your sextant.  It's probably the single most valuable piece of equipment out there for a cruiser in my opinion.  It can even provide apps to help you learn conversational Spanish, French, German, and other languages so you can wile away the hours on your way to the Marquesas, or Oz learning enough French or Aussie to impress the locals.  It also offers field guides to identify the birds, plants, animals, fish, etc, or to identify the stars in the night sky.   Not to mention reading and audio books.   I read Slocum's books obtained free from Project Gutenberg recently on my Ipad.  And that's not to mention having a truly portable way to access the internet and read and answer Emails in port.  But I've waxed poetic on the virtues of this little "toy" before.
     I would not be without AIS or radar..... or both on a long distance cruise.  These are life saving technologies for a small boat (or large), especially if you are short or single handed.  This is non-negotiable, as is a good HF radio, a compass and a sextant, and a towed or other log, and some form of charting..... Those are minimums, and I've probably forgotten something. 
      What about flush deck cabins?   There are almost none of them out there.  I see some distinct advantages, particularly for a junk rig where you aren't having to clamber forward all the time changing sails or reefing.  There is more flotation in the case of a knockdown / capsize, more interior space..... though not particularly usable space, just perceived space and airspace, and less to bump your head on, though you can't reach out and brace against the side of the cabin trunk either.
      Then there is head design......... Personally I have no intention of keeping a conventional head with black water storage.    Today's composting units have in my opinion made these systems obsolete.    More and more people are doing away with the old style heads.    What makes sense for a shower?   A separate shower is out on a small boat.   Showering in the cockpit works in decent weather, but I'm interested in what solutions real world cruisers on long passages of many weeks resort to. 
     Inboard versus outboard is a topic that deserves serious consideration.  With the modern 4 cycle outboards, it's not as simple a choice as it once was.  The maneuverability in port that an outboard offers is a serious advantage, as is removing the engine from the cabin.... noise, stink, mess, cramped service area, etc.   A Honda is going to burn more fuel than a Yanmar, but unless you plan on motoring for long stretches, this isn't a huge consideration.   Looking at motoring through the doldrums, which might entail days of motoring, it's inboard hands down.   Also running a large enough generator to justify running an engine just for electricity for things like a watermaker, they Yanmar wins hands down. 
     Fresh water...........   tankage, bottled water, jerry cans, rain capture, watermaker.   Clearly tankage on most boats is insufficient for long passages, and then there is the issue of keeping it clean and fresh, which pretty much means it must be chlorinated.   Jerry cans carried in various places offer an extension to this.  It seems to me that water capture should be an important feature of a passage making boat, but that probably means a filtration system and a second tank.   A bimini with gutters or dodger with gutters, or gutters on the coach roof?   A lot of water hits an area the size of a sailboat during a rain shower, but we can't predict showers.   Bottled water for drinking, stored under the cabin sole makes sense to me.  Good clean unchlorinated good tasting drinking water.   A watermaker is a potentially failure prone, electricity consuming device, that could be a real asset............but is it justified?   The truth is that we cannot go to sea with just a small amount of fresh water, and rely on a watermaker.   There are too many systems involved for it to be reliable.   What combination of water sources makes sense to you?   
     Electricity.......... I lived a couple of years of my life with absolutely no electricity or refrigeration. NONE.    and did just fine.   But that was in Montana, and summers were in the mountains where nights were cool and springs and streams provided fresh cool water  (you could drink it then).  Meat could be hung in a basket surrounded by mesh to keep the flies from laying eggs resulting in maggots........ usually ham or bacon, but it's surprising how long fresh meat will last.  Light was by coleman lanterns, etc.   
     We really cannot operate a sailboat without electricity on a long passage due to the need for nav lights, though they could be a self contained system like walkway lights in this day of cheap solar panels and rechargeable batteries.    Would I want to operate without electricity if I could........Emphatically NO.    There are far too many benefits.   LED lighting, radio, computer / ipad AIS, radar, chartplotter, watermaker, and numerous other valuable assets.   How large an electrical system do we actually need?   How large of batteries, and how many ways to charge them?   Solar panels are a no brainer, with two solar panels yielding as much as 500 watts.  That's a LOT of power for battery charging, but only good on sunny days.   A tow generator or wind charger offer a second source........ only if the wind is blowing, and running the engine is an absurd last resort.     How much electricity do we really need at a minimum?   We need nav lights.    We don't need our chart plotter if we are becalmed, we don't absolutely need cabin lighting, except for brief periods of time.......... do we need refrigeration?  Hopefully we are not dependent on refrigeration on a long passage, though it's nice to have cold drinks.    We do want AIS at a minimum if we don't have enough crew to keep a good watch.
     The most cost effective and reliable deep cycle battery system is the golf cart battery.  Two of them will store a lot of power.    Typical "marine deep cycle" batteries are junk as far as I'm concerned.   2 6 volts series are far more reliable than 2 12 volt batteries in parallel (speaking from long experience).   There are also 6 volt deep cycle batteries that are basically double the height of a golf cart battery, and double the capacity, but are massively heavy to handle and hard to find a place to stow.   The smartest thing in my opinion is to husband power and design power demand to work with two golf cart batteries.   
     One of the most efficient forms of energy storage is ice...............  if you have power, make ice.   The ice then does your refrigeration over a period of time, effectively releasing the embodied energy.   Water never wears out.  It's the ultimate battery, but can only one thing.......... keep things cold.   Refrigeration capacity is still measured in tons (of ice).   One ton of refrigeration is equivalent to the cooling capacity of a ton of ice.   One KWH is equivalent to .284 tons of refrigeration according to the online formulas.   Seems a bit optimistic to me, but the efficiency of refrigeration systems is pretty poor.   In theory those two solar panels could freeze 284 lbs of water per hour.... if it was just above freezing temp, and the system was 100% efficient.   The reality is far different.  I'd be happy to see a tenth of that, but even so, ice is a great storage medium if you have use for it.
     Foods and other supplies, spares, and tools are a whole 'nother and highly individual realm for discussion.   I've rambled on long enough.   Simply writing things down is my way of thinking about them.  Getting thoughts out of my head where I can examine them.  Sometimes I share those thoughts, sometimes not.

                             H.W.
     

[Captain Smollett]

This kind of topic has been discussed and hashed out a LOT here on this site over the past 10+ years.  There are several replies related to the KISS principle that popped into my head as I read your comment, but I'll settle on this one:

   
How large an electrical system do we actually need?   How large of batteries, and how many ways to charge them?   Solar panels are a no brainer, with two solar panels yielding as much as 500 watts.
   

It might interest you to know that on our boat, a 30 footer with a crew of four, our energy budget was 25 amp-hours per day.  Admittedly, that was on the smallish side even for sailfar.net, but need was comfortably buffered with a batt capacity of 215 amp-hours.  About the only thing I'd increase that budget for (and then still likely less than 50 amp-hours per day) would be for an Engel.

We have a single 85 W solar panel, and that is bigger than some on this site carry.

500 W is a HEAP TON of charging for a small, or even small-ish, sail boat.  Some friends sail on a 40 ft catamaran with a crew of EIGHT and I don't think they have that much in solar panels (and yes, they sail offshore a lot, running from NC to the DR every, or almost every, year).  I'm just guessing, but I think they had probably 300-400 Watts worth of panels....on a fairly large boat with the space to carry them.

[CharlieJ]

2 1/2 years full time cruising, two aboard. a single 32 watt solar panel, one grp 27 battery. Had to go into a marina and plug in a battery charger exactly twice.

No refrigeration except an ice chest (WELL insulated)  In 3 months in Bahamas, no ice even. We canned meats aboard in 1/2 pint jars. done at anchor in Boot Key

37 gallons of fresh water in two separate tanks,plus about 5 gallons in jugs spread here and there

Now understand- no "Voyaging" involved-all coastal and Bahamas. But still living aboard all that time, mostly at anchor.

Takes a lot less than you think

[ralay]

Based on your posts, it sounds like you've already done plenty of research and have digested the common opinions about lots of different aspects of cruising/blue water sailing and have synthesized your own theories about what's ideal. 

I could post about my experiences on our boats, but a lot of it based on my tastes and priorities.  Woody and I have all the same cruising experiences on the same boats, but we still have differing opinions.  Maybe you should start looking for opportunities to sail so that you can try a lot of the things your researching.  Nobody here can tell you whether you'd be happy pooping in a forward head or sleeping in an aft cabin or how much electricity you'll want.  You've just gotta try it.  And it's more than likely your opinions will change again and again.  Woody and I have been sailing together on the same boats and we still have differing opinions on boats.  If we met our former selves, we'd probably be arguing with them too.

[Frank]

My best advice to you would be to get your boat of choice and do a 6 week cruise. You will learn what you need and don't need for your style of cruising.
Then.....adjust accordingly.

Solar: My one panel is around 220 watts, blue sky MPPT controller to 4-215 amp hour 6 volt golf cart batteries. (430 amps at 12v)

Running an engel 24/7 was never a problem. I ran the icebox with engel cooling plate AND a small engel cooler/freezer as a freezer with this set up effectively for 4 weeks as well. After 2 days without sun I'd run the engine for about 20minutes before heading off to bed the 2nd night. Again....that was with fridge and seperate freezer. Never ran engine with just the fridge.
To engel or not to engel.....your choice. Your choices will determine panel size and battery bank.

As to layout....I also prefer galley and head aft for several reasons...

AIS is the poor mans radar. Set the alarm to desired distance. Works great.

I would have got Allure with a tiller but would have lost the propane locker so wheel it was. I prefer a tiller for many reasons...

Get your boat...don't spend too much $$ on upgrades until you do 5-6 weeks aboard. You'll figure it out.

All our cruising styles and needs are different .....
What works for one, won't for another

What works island hopping won't crossing oceans and vise versa

The fun is in the dreaming  :)

[Frank]

Based on your posts, it sounds like you've already done plenty of research and have digested the common opinions about lots of different aspects of cruising/blue water sailing and have synthesized your own theories about what's ideal. 

I could post about my experiences on our boats, but a lot of it based on my tastes and priorities.  Woody and I have all the same cruising experiences on the same boats, but we still have differing opinions.  Maybe you should start looking for opportunities to sail so that you can try a lot of the things your researching.  Nobody here can tell you whether you'd be happy pooping in a forward head or sleeping in an aft cabin or how much electricity you'll want.  You've just gotta try it.  And it's more than likely your opinions will change again and again.  Woody and I have been sailing together on the same boats and we still have differing opinions on boats.  If we met our former selves, we'd probably be arguing with them too.

TRUE THAT!!!

Grog to ya :)

[Captain Smollett]

Maybe you should start looking for opportunities to sail so that you can try a lot of the things your researching.  Nobody here can tell you whether you'd be happy ...

and

My best advice to you would be to get your boat of choice and do a 6 week cruise. You will learn what you need and don't need for your style of cruising.
Then.....adjust accordingly.

{snip}

All our cruising styles and needs are different .....
What works for one, won't for another

What works island hopping won't crossing oceans and vise versa

The fun is in the dreaming  :)

+1000 and well said to both.  These remarks get right to it.