Sawdust toilet for small head spaces

[Phantom Jim]

Update on the sawdust toilet:  we finally had a fly infestation.  I cured it by spraying Shoo Fly insect spray into the bucket and waited a couple of hours then disposed of the contents.  It took a couple of hours patiently stalking the remaining flies with a 12v vacuum....  I have also determined that long term storage of damp sawdust in a closed storage bucket will develop mildew and mold, something to avoid.  I normally only store dry medium, but some was stored when it was dry to the touch but still faintly moist.  I discarded the medium because of the mildew.

[SeaHusky]

I have to show my ignorance so where do you empty the composting heads?
In Sweden pump out stations are still too few and many marinas don't allow emptying portapotties in the regular toilets due to previous messes.

[Phantom Jim]

It is appropriate to empty the bagged sawdust toilet contents into public or home garbage containers.  I use a double bag liner inside my toilet and when the toilet is full, I tie the bag without removing it from the toilet.  I snap the lid on the bucket and transport the bucket to the garbage receptacle and then remove the bag and place into it.

I do this discreetly even though it is appropriate to dispose of human waste into these receptacles.  It is legal to dispose of pet waste, baby diapers and nursing home diapers into these dumpsters.  C-Head advocates sealing and disposing of the bucket with one of the lockable lids before dumping.

If you have adequate facilities and your home circumstances allow, full composting at home may be the most environmentally friendly option.

I tend to keep the sawdust toilet very low key around uninformed people because of the perceived ICK factor.  I proposed a sawdust toilet article for publication in a major sailing publication which was declined because they felt there would be a public outcry about the disposal in public dumpsters. I also suspect that many marinas might want to prohibit this dumping in their dumpsters as well.

[Bubba the Pirate]

I have been using coconut coir in my C head for couple years. I've had great success. I think with any composting toilet there's learning curve plus there are issues every once in awhile. I seem to be using the c head in a different method then Capt K describes. I believe I'm following the c head instructions nearly to the letter. They supplied a canister and suggested that two canisters full was a good start for the medium. After doing the duty, I use the crank handle 12 or 15 times to mix the duty into the medium. This seems to dry everything out quite quickly. I've experienced almost zero odor. Typically if I smell anything at all, it's the earthy, woodsy smell of damp coconut rather than anything else. Three or four times in a cycle I put a little bit of dry coconut on the top and then mix it in. The c head is of course a urine separation composting head. it's my understanding that the drying out is key to the process. I'm no expert but it has worked for me.

Also, I dampen the coir, a cup of water to 2 small bricks I'm buying from Amazon. The bricks are about 4" square and vary from 2 to 3 inches thick. The bricks breakdown very easily when damp. I wouldn't want to bdeak them up dry.

I'm away from the boat making money again otberwise I would try pine pellets for you. See blog post below.

https://www.bubbathepirate.com/2018/06/i-cant-do-this-anymore.html

[Phantom Jim]

The two styles of "composting" toilets have different dynamics even though they seem almost identical. 

The separation toilets mix single batches of medium and use it all at one time charging their tanks.  If the medium is damp there is no particular issue because it does not have any more liquid added. 

The liquid/solid toilets use the medium gradually as liquid and solids are added.  Storing 4 or 5 gallons of damp medium invites mold and mildew.  I have not seen how Joe Jenkins deals with the damp sawdust, but he reports that damp is better than dry.  That has not been my experience.  Perhaps it is the climate we each exist in.  I think he is in the mountains somewhere which may be cooler.  The Texas coast is blazing hot now and dry has worked better for me.

I am interested whether the sawdust will work well in the separation toilets.  If we keep tinkering with these maybe we will get it down pat!

[CapnK]

Todd - we are pretty much on the same page, except the el Cheapo model I came up with doesn't have a built-in stirrer like the C-Head so I just lightly cover it like a cat, and do any stirring with the pipe paddle immediately prior to next use, giving it a bit of drying time before mixing it in with the rest of the "batch". ;D

Drive carefully!

WRT disposal, you can spread the solids out in wooded areas or marsh grasses and it goes back into the environment very quickly due to weather, bugs, and wee beasties. Home composters use it to fertilize bushes and ornamental plants. It is not recommended to use it for fertilizing food crops - not because it isn't good fertilizer, but due to the possibility of transmitting bad bacteria/etc to the food. IIRC, you need to properly and fully compost it for at least 2 years before it is food crop usable.

[Phantom Jim]

Todd, how much do you estimate you spend per cycle using the coir?  Maybe we can develop an actual cost basis for each style of composting toilet.  I propose we separate the two styles into "dry system" as the commercial and "wet system" as the homemade sawdust option. 

I already know that $6 to $7 in pine pellets will go about a month per couple with the wet sawdust toilet.  This may well be a year in a dry system.  Let us see if we can give the new readers some good data.

I really like both the wet and dry systems and they each have distinct advantages.  I lean toward the wet systems because they are inherently simpler to install and fit into smaller head spaces.  I think the wet system is more ideally suited to a non-liveaboard boating situation where emptying is a frequent event.

[Bob J (ex-misfits)]

I tried wood pellets cause I had 400 pounds of them sitting in my basement. There now sitting in a plastic bag in a cooler in the cockpit of the boat.  Maybe cause I'm up north & we have hardwood instead of softwood? Didn't work for me. Couldn't change it out fast enough to wood shavings.

[Phantom Jim]

It is a shame they did not work for you.  Take them home and burn them in your furnace to get even;)  I have not tried hardwood pellets since the ones available are for use in food smokers and are pretty pricey.  I will scratch them off the list of useful choices as medium.  C-Head does recommend the pine pellets.

I have a bucket of 1/2 paper micro shreds and 1/2 cedar planer shavings to try.  Paper shreds by themselves have worked but a lot is needed to keep the smell under control and the bucket fills up much faster than with pine sawdust or cedar planer shavings.  Maybe the wood shavings/paper shreds mix will have a symbiotic effect. 

[SeaHusky]

How about a cheap document shredder and last weeks newspapers?

[Phantom Jim]

Paper shreds work but they require more volume than sawdust of planer shavings.  It appears that it is the mass of the medium that counts, not the volume.  I experimented with crosscut paper shreds and was disappointed because they got everywhere like dry coir and peat moss.  They also took a very large volume to be effective.  It seems that a cycle using paper shreds was only two days when sawdust was three and a half days.

Microcut paper shreds behaved similarly but are not as messy. I have a Royal microcut shredder from Costco I use for security purposes that cost $100.  That $100 will buy 14 bags of pine pellets which should be 114 cycles, or about 400 days use for a couple.  I would not buy a paper shredder just to make medium for a composting toilet.  I also suspect that paper shreds would not work in the dry commercial toilets.

Paper shreds are my least favorite medium.  They work but are a lot of effort and require a lot of storage volume compared to pine pellets. 

[Phantom Jim]

Misfits, how did the hardwood pellets reconstitute?  A cup or so of water in a gallon of pine pellets seems to make it very "sawdusty".  Maybe it does not reconstitute the same way.  I will investigate this.

[Phantom Jim]

Just found this at http://www.thefloatingempire.com/2014/07/no-st-joys-of-composting-toilet.html

You may have had the pellets with the oil binder?

As for the biomass, our big accidental find was the hardwood pellets for pellet stoves.

Yes, these things.  Compressed hardwood sawdust made for pellet stoves.

We got a bag of the stuff for use in our gasifier stove, and when we ran out of sawdust, I remembered what happened at the big box store at which I had been working when one of the bags of the stuff broke and got wet.  The compressed pellets, made of hardwood sawdust, expanded as they absorbed the water.  As a result, the pellets are a good deal more compact than sawdust to carry and store, but expand rapidly to absorb any moisture from the compost and seem to decompose just fine.  Better, a bag of the stuff is about $5 for around 40 lbs., which will last you months.  Be sure to get the "natural" kind that doesn't use oil as a binder and has no other additives, and be aware that not all the pellets are compressed hardwood.  Some are cherry pits or other materials.  Read the bag.

[SeaHusky]

I must say, you do know your toilets Sir!

[Phantom Jim]

Heck of an Honor!

[Phantom Jim]

A simple way to experiment with the sawdust toilet is using a five gallon bucket, a short piece of a pool noodle (or foam pipe insulation) and a bag of cheap potting mix from a big box store.

Cut a length of pool noodle to fit around the rim of the bucket.  Make a length wise slit on one side of the noodle and press it onto the rim of the bucket to make a seat.  Put about 3"-5" of potting soil in the bottom of the bucket and you are in operation.  (See earlier posts for operation instructions)

This is also a way for a weekend boater to have a good sanitation system without buying a porta potty.  I estimate the cost of this setup to be about $10 total.  You might want to pull a big garbage bag over it when the boat is in motion to prevent spills if it tips over while when in motion. 

A good way to try it out without much expense.  To go in real style one can get a bucket toilet seat from most outdoor outfitters for about $5 or Luggable Loo @ $18.

[Phantom Jim]

The photo shows a way to make a toilet seat from a pool noodle

[Owly055]

     At sea, folks normally dump sewage overboard.  The logical extension of that is "direct deposit", which is the most common cause of MOB situations... pissing over the side or stern.    I've gravitated to catamarans, and interestingly I have yet to see or read about someone who put a head on the bridge deck... basically just a  hole like an outhouse, with the entire ocean as your pit.  There is no simpler solution for offshore...... porpoises do it, fish do it.... seals kind of like to do it on your boat ;-)   As practical as it is, the subject seems to be taboo, gross, disgusting to many people...........   Jim Brown advocates it on the Searunner trimaran as an option......"gentlemen please be seated" is a rather priceless quote.

                                                                      H.W.

[Phantom Jim]

Well put. I recently spent 10 days cruising with a long time friend on my boat and part of the ritual is instruction in the use of the marine toilet.  He was not squeamish about the sawdust toilet (he was somewhat skeptical) but relayed that his wife would have no part of that type of toilet since there was a perception that the next user would be able to see the previous user's waste.  This is a female who raised two kids and has certainly diapered as many babies as anyone.  It is neither an honor nor punishment to use a composting toilet.  It is a tool that boat owners can use and they are almost foolproof.

i did not ask my friend how many times their "wet" marine toilet system needed dissassembly during their cruises.  I am confident it is several times since I have had that experience as well.  Taking a toilet apart during a cruise is, in my estimation, the most dreaded task of all.

I had a favorite picture I cut from a major sailing magazine that showed a toilet seat mounted on the stern railing.  I thought this very funny, especially since the user would have been perched so high and anyone on the boat would have seen the underside of the toilet seat as well as any anatomical body parts visible through the hole.

Why do we Americans make life so hard?

[CharlieJ]

     At sea, folks normally dump sewage overboard.  The logical extension of that is "direct deposit", which is the most common cause of MOB situations... pissing over the side or stern.    I've gravitated to catamarans, and interestingly I have yet to see or read about someone who put a head on the bridge deck... basically just a  hole like an outhouse, with the entire ocean as your pit.  There is no simpler solution for offshore...... porpoises do it, fish do it.... seals kind of like to do it on your boat ;-)   As practical as it is, the subject seems to be taboo, gross, disgusting to many people...........   Jim Brown advocates it on the Searunner trimaran as an option......"gentlemen please be seated" is a rather priceless quote.

                                                                      H.W.

Newicks Roue Wave had a openimg in a wing deck for exactly that- a water tight hatch.