Home Built Hebridean Wind Vane ....... Trials video

[Owly055]

     I recently ran across this Utube and associated information:    The trials of my Hebridean:    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApXjMEc8uNk   Posted by Richard Brooksby, it shows his initial trials and work at tuning his home built Hebridean Wind Vane steering system on his junk rigged Coromandel.     The article on construction is pretty comprehensive and can be read here:   https://tammynorie.wordpress.com/category/repairs-and-modifications/constructing-the-hebridean/   And the website with instructions, plans, etc, can be found here:   http://windvaneselfsteering.co.uk/     Its interesting information if you have any interest in such a project.    The typical junk rig has a lot of weather helm, which tends to complicate the job for a wind vane, as it lacks a head sail to aid in achieving a balance.

     Bill Belcher wrote a book, available on Amazon on how to plan and make your own Wind Vane steering ............. expensive as books go, but cheap as wind vane steering goes ;-)     Arne K.  (who's Norwegian last name I can't remember the spelling of, recently wrote me with an account of using one of these on his Albin Viggen and steering a straight course WITHOUT A WATER VANE.....   Both designs are horizontal axis vanes.


Wind-Vane Self-Steering: How to Plan and Make Your Own Hardcover ? 1982:      https://www.amazon.com/Wind-Vane-Self-Steering-Plan-Make-Your/dp/0877421587



                                                     H.W.

[CharlieJ]

In have one of Belcher's vanes half built out in the shop. But the tiller pilot works so well for the sailing I do now, It's just stored away.

[Owly055]

In have one of Belcher's vanes half built out in the shop. But the tiller pilot works so well for the sailing I do now, It's just stored away.

     I wouldn't set out on a 3000 mile passage like the ARC or the Puddle Jump or Darwin to Cocos Keeling, etc with just a tiller pilot.  They have a habit of failing at the most inopportune moments leaving you with thousands of miles of hand steering..... It's a story one hears over and over again.
     At the very least, I think it's worthwhile to work out sheet to tiller steering for your boat on virtually every point of sail and carry the stuff to do it.
For a single mast junk rig such as I want to set up, some sort of wind vane steering is a non-negotiable necessity, as there really is no way to trim for steering.

                                                         H.W.

[CharlieJ]

I've had sheet to tiller steering onboard for years and it has functioned nicely for two- three days at a time, offshore.

But I highly doubt, at my age and level mof desire, that I'll be doing many more multi day passages

Video taken about 50 miles out into then Gulf Of Mexico on passage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PhBRB1qkpk

[CharlieJ]

and this one on a day time passage through Mississippi Sound on a trip to Florida and back

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NokZpCJIuBg

[Owly055]

     Sheet to tiller steering is great...... provided you have enough sheet loading to operate it.  Unfortunately with as junk rig, the balance area of the sail forward of the mast results in very light sheet loading, and in the case of the rig I intend to use, it will be lighter still with 25-30% forward area, because the mast cannot realistically be moved as far forward as I would like.  There is also the matter of not having head sails, so it is not possible to balance the helm using sails.  As a consequence, I will be doing some creative things with rudder(s).   The boat will naturally have significant weather helm.   The plan is to install two foil shaped fins, one on each outrigger (ama).   The idea being that on one tack, one will be submerged, and the angle of attack can be fixed at an optimal angle to counter the weather helm.  The stronger the wind, the more the boat is going to heel up to a maximum of about 15 degrees, thus the force should increase with the wind force.   Additionally the actual rudder or rudders which are transom mounted will have significant balance area.   I say rudders, as a recent and very good suggestion was to have twin rudders, one of which could have almost neutral balance for self steering.   Both of course would be kick up / break away rudders.    A single well balanced foil shaped rudder could probably be used for STT steering.     

     I've thought a lot about adding a "jigger" (yawl mizzen) specifically for self steering.   I feel it could be used in a number of useful ways for steering and maneuvering, as well as a riding sail.  A more attractive alternative to a wind vane.   Unfortunately there is virtually nothing on the net regarding using a mizzen in this way.

                                                                                    H.W.

[Norman]

I have seen pictures of junks with small mizzen sails, presumably to adjust the balance of the sail plan.  If you had one on your vessel, it would provide the added function of a source of input for your sheet to tiller option.

Captan Slocum added a mizzen so he could balance his rig for easier steering and better stability on wind shifts.  He made this addition on a beach in S America, to over come the increased fatigue of steering for long periods of unsettled weather, or passing through dangerous channels.  This was after he rounded the Horn.  Fatigue nearly killed him twice there, and he was very motivated to give himself a better chance the next time.

Committing yourself to a single sail seems dangerous, as many blue water passages have had a boarding wave across the cabin top rip the whole bottom of the main sail.  An event of this sort would seem to leave a junk rig without any controllable sail if the rip was above the lowest sheet.  Obviously, the lower portions could not be raised until they were reconnected to the upper section, which would have to wait until the storm subsided.  That could be a long time at the mercy of the waves.

Slocum sailed on with his jib and mizzen while he restitched the torn main.  Redundant systems may increase the probability of failure, but leaves alternatives that are immediately available.

[Owly055]

I have seen pictures of junks with small mizzen sails, presumably to adjust the balance of the sail plan.  If you had one on your vessel, it would provide the added function of a source of input for your sheet to tiller option.

Captan Slocum added a mizzen so he could balance his rig for easier steering and better stability on wind shifts.  He made this addition on a beach in S America, to over come the increased fatigue of steering for long periods of unsettled weather, or passing through dangerous channels.  This was after he rounded the Horn.  Fatigue nearly killed him twice there, and he was very motivated to give himself a better chance the next time.

Committing yourself to a single sail seems dangerous, as many blue water passages have had a boarding wave across the cabin top rip the whole bottom of the main sail.  An event of this sort would seem to leave a junk rig without any controllable sail if the rip was above the lowest sheet.  Obviously, the lower portions could not be raised until they were reconnected to the upper section, which would have to wait until the storm subsided.  That could be a long time at the mercy of the waves.

Slocum sailed on with his jib and mizzen while he restitched the torn main.  Redundant systems may increase the probability of failure, but leaves alternatives that are immediately available.

     A junk rig is sheeted to each batten.   You can lose sail panels, and the remaining sail panels continue to provide drive, unlike the single sail of a Bermuda rig.   Below is a photo of Kehaar, which  is an enginless Aussie junk rig that fought off a lee shore in a gale so long that it's entire sail was shredded.  The sail was quite old and sun rotted at the time.  The boat made it in under the rig in the photo.

     I've read Slocum's account of his voyage....... who among us hasn't?   It's available free online at Project Gutenberg.   Slocum speaks of installing the "jigger", but it is NEVER once mentioned after that as I recall.  There was no description of how he used it, or what he used it for.

     My thinking is that it could be used to balance the boat (obvious), for sheet to tiller steering, or even to directly control the rudder like a wind vane.   It can also be used as an "air rudder" for maneuvering, as well as for as riding sail.   If a "jigger" can be made to fulfill all the self steering functions, at least in my opinion, it would be a more desirable option than a wind vane, both from an appearance standpoint, and a functionality standpoint.

                                       H.W.

[Norman]

There are a lot of reasons for "reading between the lines" with Slocum.  He praised Spray's perfection early in the cruise, but remember, this is the vessel that he created, not an identically recreated copy of its original form.  It is a part of himself, and he is justly proud of her.  He does not complain of poor performance of the sail plan he himself designed while sailing the thousands of miles before rounding the Horn.

After his near disasters due to exhaustion, he put in on an isolated shore to redesign the sail plan, shortening the main boom, recutting the mainsail, and creating the necessary structure for the jigger.

Crossing the Pacific with his new rig, he bragged that he trimmed the sails,and sailed for weeks at a time without any further attention to them.  Obviously, the rig had not had that stability before the modification.  He did not criticize his initial design, but he sure did brag on his new one.

Any lack of mention of the jigger is not surprising, as he rarely mentioned whether he had one or both jib and staysail in use. He even rarely mentioned reducing sail in any detail when storms hit, beyond reporting he shortened sail.  He seemed to consider details of sail deployment too trivial to be of interest, and in his time, that would have been true in his expected audience.

The photographs of Spray under sail for the rest of his voyage, the mizzen is hoisted and pulling.  Oddly, he continued to refer to Spray as his sloop, which it had never been.  From the beginning, it was cutter rigged.

I have read the book three times, as a teen, in my 50's, and again in my 70's.  I learn and notice different things every time, and wonder how I missed some of the important items.  I must admit, the first time, I read it as most likely an exaggerated, near fiction, but very interesting.

You are no doubt well aware how hard it is to get a sloop to hold a course without some form of mechanical feedback from the sails.  Small mizzen sails are famous solutions for this problem.

It took a huge effort for Slocum to modify his "sloop" with the limited tools he had, and much of the wood cut locally, but he obviously felt it to be needed before tackling the rest of his voyage.  Spray must have had an emense amount of weather helm to justify the amount of main boom he removed.  It is no wonder he normally lashed the wheel in normal sailing, rather than holding the wheel against steady strong pressure.

[Owly055]

Norman:
     Thanks for those insightful comments.    You've inspired me to re-read Slocum's book.   

     The correction for weather helm is a subject that touched very close to home, as with the junk rig conversion I intend to do on the Searunner 31, I cannot move the mast nearly as far forward as it should be for both structural and space reasons.  This means I will have to address the problem of significant weather helm.   My intent is to address this under water, rather than above.   I cannot change the position of size of the centerboard in any way, so this means additional surface(s), and other changes.   A little math shows that with max heel at about 15 degrees, and a distance of close 9' center to center between main hull and each ama, the variation in relative elevation will be over 4.5 feet from full heel on one tack to full heel on the opposite tack.   That means that I can have fixed foil shaped fins (break away of course) on the transom of each ama, and that these fins could be adjustable to provide a bit side force to counter the weather helm, and that the force they produced would vary with heel.    Using a foil shape, this force could be produced efficiently with minimal drag for the force produced.   Dead downwind, very little of either fin would be submerged.  Both fins would have end plates to maximize efficiency by reducing tip losses.
     My fundamental problem is that the underbody of the boat will not match the sail plan in terms of center of lateral resistance related to center of effort.     The other important modification will be to the rudder.  Enlarging it and adding significant balance area.  It will also be break away.   It was recently suggested that I use dual rudders, one at each side of the transom, one almost completely balanced so a wind vane could operate it directly, and the other connected to the tiller with less balance area to provide feel.    This is an interesting and innovative solution that kills several birds with one stone.    Realistically I have to choose between using wind vane steering, or installing a jigger..........There isn't room for both, and in most respects the wind vane wins out.    The center cockpit and poor stern access, as well as having an outboard rather than an inboard all point toward the wind vane.   That is of course not to mention structural considerations.   There is also the issue of running lines to a tiller versus directly to the rudder...........  Lots of things to consider.   The junk rig mast will be about 2' forward of the Bermuda rig mast, and offset to one side about 10" (of necessity).   The boom of course crosses the mast on a junk rig, and in this case 20-25% of it's length will project forward of the mast.  This combination will still leave the center of effort well behind the original masthead cutter sail plan.   
      One of the aspects of being delayed in one's plans is plenty of time to mull over the different aspects and consequences, and various approaches.    In this case there are many.   And plenty of time to overthink things   ;-)

                                                                   H.W.

There are a lot of reasons for "reading between the lines" with Slocum.  He praised Spray's perfection early in the cruise, but remember, this is the vessel that he created, not an identically recreated copy of its original form.  It is a part of himself, and he is justly proud of her.  He does not complain of poor performance of the sail plan he himself designed while sailing the thousands of miles before rounding the Horn.

After his near disasters due to exhaustion, he put in on an isolated shore to redesign the sail plan, shortening the main boom, recutting the mainsail, and creating the necessary structure for the jigger.

Crossing the Pacific with his new rig, he bragged that he trimmed the sails,and sailed for weeks at a time without any further attention to them.  Obviously, the rig had not had that stability before the modification.  He did not criticize his initial design, but he sure did brag on his new one.

Any lack of mention of the jigger is not surprising, as he rarely mentioned whether he had one or both jib and staysail in use. He even rarely mentioned reducing sail in any detail when storms hit, beyond reporting he shortened sail.  He seemed to consider details of sail deployment too trivial to be of interest, and in his time, that would have been true in his expected audience.

The photographs of Spray under sail for the rest of his voyage, the mizzen is hoisted and pulling.  Oddly, he continued to refer to Spray as his sloop, which it had never been.  From the beginning, it was cutter rigged.

I have read the book three times, as a teen, in my 50's, and again in my 70's.  I learn and notice different things every time, and wonder how I missed some of the important items.  I must admit, the first time, I read it as most likely an exaggerated, near fiction, but very interesting.

You are no doubt well aware how hard it is to get a sloop to hold a course without some form of mechanical feedback from the sails.  Small mizzen sails are famous solutions for this problem.

It took a huge effort for Slocum to modify his "sloop" with the limited tools he had, and much of the wood cut locally, but he obviously felt it to be needed before tackling the rest of his voyage.  Spray must have had an emense amount of weather helm to justify the amount of main boom he removed.  It is no wonder he normally lashed the wheel in normal sailing, rather than holding the wheel against steady strong pressure.

[Owly055]

Norman

     I began reading Sailing Alone Around The World again at your inspiration and hour or so ago.......  Joshua and I are now being feted at Gibralter before sailing onward.   With a weather eye for the details you mentioned, I observed that at one point he reefed the main because he couldn't hold her, and later she sailed herself for the first time on a reach heading eastward with a southerly breeze.   Both strongly support your comments about weather helm, and the fact that Spray did NOT steer herself in her original sail configuration..........   I have work to do this afternoon, but by the time I go to bed, I expect to be past the horn............  I'll never set sail without a box of tacks   ;-)

                                                                               H.W.

[CharlieJ]

Another quite interesting Slocum book is "the Voyage of the Liberdade" 1890

Details his losing his ship in South America, and building the Liberdade to sail home with his family.  And like any shrewd Yankee sea captain, he came home with a  paying cargo :)

[Owly055]

Another quite interesting Slocum book is "the Voyage of the Liberdade" 1890

Details his losing his ship in South America, and building the Liberdade to sail home with his family.  And like any shrewd Yankee sea captain, he came home with a  paying cargo :)

    I've read that one also................. Both books are available on Project Gutenberg free.    My Ipad has been a huge asset as far as reading.   I do not watch TV, in fact I've never had a TV in my life........... nearly all garbage as far as I'm concerned.   I do watch some specific Utube videos, which can be very useful and informative........ Real people doing real things, and sharing what they've learned.   One of the best resources out there, though like much of the net, it's overloaded with garbage.    The ability to sift the wheat from the chaff has become even more important in modern times than it was in the past.  It's a critical skill that needs to be taught at home and in school.   The recent election cycle was a stark illustration of people's inability to do this.......... It's a grave threat to modern civilization!!

                                                       H.W.

[Owly055]

    Slocum's book is not a long read.   This morning before breakfast, Joshua and I spent time in Tasmania, and sailed up the east coast of Oz behind the Great Barrier Reef, which by the way is dying in the northern most reaches in Queensland per recent articles ......... dead bleached coral.   Sailed through the Torres Strait the Sea of Arafura and the Timor Sea, into the Indian Ocean, and just made landfall at the Keeling Cocos Islands........ Oom Paul Kruger is not far ahead ;-)
    Paying particular attention to the rig &c, I made the observation that while the mizzen mast was installed in Brazil........... Pernambuco (Recife), I believe, the sail as bent on the first time according to Joshua's writing just as he was making his final run through the last portion of the Straits of Magellan........ I didn't note the exact location, but it was around the time he was salvaging the cargo of tallow.   Interestingly he amazed a fellow sailor in the River Plate (Buenos Ares) with the Spray's ability to sail herself....... Obviously without the jigger.  He did however brag on his long runs without ever touching the helm later in the "misnamed" Pacific, and on the run to the Cocos Keeling islands.   It appears that his methodology was to lash the helm, and presumably balance the sails.  It's not at all clear how he used the mizzen............  See y'all in Boston this evening ;-)
                                                                                               H.W.