Considering a Catalina 30 "Project."

[Locutus]

I'm considering buying a very low-priced Catalina 30 tall rig, described in the ad as a "project." The ad states that the boat is otherwise clean inside and out, but needs an engine rebuild or replacement, new sails, and haul-out for bottom cleaning and bottom paint. Photos seem to indicate it's in halfway decent shape. The engine is a gasoline Atomic 4.

Your opinions? Is this a potentially worthwhile project or should I run (not walk) away from it?

Some other questions about Catalina 30s in general:

Have any of you tried living aboard a Catalina 30, at least part time? How would you rate this boat model as a potential live-aboard?

I read mentioned in "the other" forum that a Catalina 30 is currently being prepared for a Circumnavigation, no specifics given. I hope I'm not starting a flame war by asking this, but since this model is really only designed for protected waters and coastal cruising, what would it take in terms of upgrades to transform a Catalina 30 into a vessel of seaworthiness sufficient for ocean passages? I've heard of several Catalina 27s that have circumnavigated, but not so much about Catalina 30s doing so.

[Frank]

No "flames"

They built a lot of C 30's!! Not that bad a boat and fairly big inside.
Nice thing about a 30fter is it is still small enough to throw a new 9.9 electric start long shaft on it for around $2200 and your done.
A4's are a great old engine really. Problem is "old" and a marine environment. I personally wouldn't throw $$ at a rebuild and a decent diesel is lotsa $$ to install. Don't forget diesels have different fuel line requirements etc as well.
So...may be a worth while project.
After 2 big "fix ups"... count on 2x the $$ (or more) and 3x the time you guess and you may be close.
As to offshore....heck, Tinkerbelle at 13ft crossed the Atlantic 😄
Do the usual stuff.
Secure lower drop board in place, they have an extremely "V'd" companionway boards by memory...figure how to lock them all in place if need be, have seals and locks on cockpit lockers, have an easy reefing system with 3 reef points on main and at minimum a deep reef on the jib (storm jib is better)
There will be lots of opinions on this, but any boat is made safer for not a lot of $$ with the above.
Go look...
Remember the old saying "wanna make a boat look good....take its picture"
They seldom look as good in person.
Follow your "gut"
Have fun 😄😄

[ralay]

If I were serious about making ocean passages I wouldn't buy a Catalina.  I'd buy a boat designed for my intended purpose. You can always makes mods to improve the seaworthiness of a boat, but you can't change the basic design.  It'll always have a fin keel, round bottom, and spade rudder, for instance.  It was also built to have a certain structural integrity.  The lay up of the hull, the hull to deck joint, the rig, the hull and bulkheads that support the rig weren't designed to go out for thousands of miles in all weather.  It's not really possible to beef up one bit without transferring that load to another undersized component.

I mean, folks have crossed the ocean in all sorts of unlikely vessels. No one will say you couldn't do it with good weather and luck.  It's about what you'd like your odds of success to be, your comfort, and how much money you want to spend changing one type of boat into a different type.

So I'm not thought of as a boat snob, I'd also encourage you to ask yourself how likely it is that you'll cross an ocean on your own boat.
I'm meet new sailors everyday and the vast majority aren't ocean crossers.  We  bought a Westsail 32 because we wanted a blue water boat.  After 10 years of cruising, neither of us is interested in crossing any oceans.  We would have had a much larger selection of more affordable boats if we hadn't overestimated our ambitions and broadened our search.  Maybe a Catalina is plenty for what you'll want  to do.  Something to reflect on.

I wouldn't buy any boat just because it's cheap.  They all take a lot of work and money and it's only worthwhile if you're really, really excited about the finished product. 

I also agree with Frank.  Don't think about any boat too hard until you see it in person.  It's usually safe to assume there are more problems than are described by the owner.

[s/v Faith]

Any boat can be the perfect boat for someone's needs.  What I can say is that having sailed aboard one, they sail well.. they are open and inviting below... and a ton of people are living aboard them where ever you go.

What do you realistically plan to do with it?  Live aboard and some cruising?  Ocean passages?  Going around?....  the closer you are to the beginning of this list I think the better fit it is going to be.

What do you think you want to do?

I met a man who was building a house on Eleuthera. He had been Sailing for years and had experience aboard a lot of boats. I met him when he was docking his cat 30....  I asked him what about it he liked...  he showed me below and I saw what looked like about two isles of a Home Depot...  he had "remodeled" the interior to haul lumber and building supplies... he sounded like he could not have been more happy with it. :)

[Locutus]

Thanks for your replies.

I called the seller yesterday and it turns out the boat had been beached on its side and the motor, with only 800 hours, doesn't run because it's been full of water for a year.  He cleaned the cabin out with a pressure washer, if that tells you anything.  So it's looking like a less likely prospect already.  He supposedly has an appointment today with a serious buyer so it may not even be available after today.

As for what I'd do with this boat if I bought it:  I wouldn't do ocean passages in it either, but I live in the PNW and it's perfect for Puget Sound and the Canadian Gulf Islands.  I'm also interested in a refuge to get away from my wife's barking, howling beagle so I can get a good night's sleep once in a while.

Still, this boat will definitely need some work and money even for that.  I'll at least need to get it running so that probably means an engine swap.  I don't think attempting to rebuild a motor that's had water in it for a year is a good bet.

[lance on cloud nine]

there could be a lot to be said for a boat like that for a local part time hang out space. kind of like a big Sunfish with room to sleep. remove any non working electric junk. clamp on battery nav lights. get the rig all tidied up. jump on with just your bathing suit, a cooler, and a book. sail her hard a couple days. and then go do something else you enjoy.

[CaptMac]

I have found the following, when the owner advertises the condition of the boat:

Great = After you put another 10k into it
Fair = It floats
Project = They should pay you to haul it away

It's best to find a boat someone else has already fix up, but has lost interest in it, and pay a little more and know your cost, like Frank said if you find one to fix up you could double or triple your budget.

[Locutus]

I've decided against pursuing this C30.  Never mind the logistics of actually getting the necessary work done, I'd be into it over $10,000 by the time I got it into operating condition.  Might as well buy one in good shape.

I may look at a Catalina 27 this weekend instead.  But I found out that the marina I was interested in renting a slip has a lower size limit for live-aboards.  Minimum registered size (on title) must be at least 32 FT.  I'm not planning to live aboard but want that option available.  So that eliminates both the C27 and C30, at least at that marina.

The C27 I'll be looking at is a 1973 model and comes with a 2004 Yamaha outboard motor to fit the factory motor well.  The seller says that when he bought it the interior was stripped for racing, and he salvaged the interior out of another C27 and reinstalled it in this one.  Makes me wonder, but the price is pretty good at $2500.00.  Comes with two sets of sails.

[Owly055]

I would suggest looking at Atom Voyages:   http://atomvoyages.com/planning/good-old-boats-list.html

     This is a site devoted to older boats suitable for voyaging, that has a nice list of boats in the size range under about 32 feet that are built heck for stout...... Older boats of course.     The older GRP boats tended to be built with extremely thick fiberglass, as they had not explored the limits yet.   Some were as much as an inch thick below the waterline.
     My criteria when I was looking at buying a monohull for passage making, had to do with length, draft, beam, and other layout features.   Small self draining cockpit with a bridgdeck to stop water running down the companionway, transom hung rudder rated high, I prefer the aft location for the galley.  I would NOT buy a boat with a liner.  They may be slick and nicely finished, but they make access to the inner face of the hull virtually impossible.  It means also that you cannot prevent water from flooding the entire boat or make temporary repairs to the hull from inside in an emergency.   Let's face it, monohulls are designed to sink.   Thousands of them are sitting right side up on the bottom.   The structural liner is an absolute abortion in my opinion.  Rather than solid tabbed in bulkheads, and other structural elements, an entire  molded piece is dropped in and secured with "chewing gum".    It's a cheap fast way to build a short life boat.    I like the British bilge keel boats, like the Westerlies.   With shallow draft and bilge keel, you can take the ground, and in a storm situation, you can go up into shallow water, up rivers, etc, where other boats aren't going to drag anchor and wreck yours.  You can tie off to mangroves, etc.   

     Ultimately I concluded that a multihull was for me, for several reasons.  One being shallow draft, another being a fairly level ride, both at sea and at anchor, both of which can have a huge effect on comfort.  Another being the fact that they have no ballast, and as a result they do not sink.    Multihulls have been driven ashore with the crew getting off without injury, because they stay right side up.   A trimaran is a liferaft if something goes wrong....... You don't need to inflate the typical "death raft" to escape a sinking boat.  If you've ever read about life in a so called "life raft", you won't want to EVER take to a life raft.

     I don't yet own "my boat", so I can't speak with the authority of those who do............. Of the boats on the list, I had come down to the Tartan 27 for a number of reasons, not the least of which was the rearward folding centerboard, and shallow draft......... these are not common, but the Tartan 34C is far more common and quite similar.   I love the engine location inside the main cabin beneath a settee.  giving excellent access, as well as an angled prop.   Price and availability play heavily here.   I have not met one of these in person, this is just based on reading.   

      The list below is from the Good Old Boat list from Atom Voyages.  At their site, you can click through to full descriptions, and shorter descriptions are listed on the site.   

                                                               H.W.

    Flicka 20
    Falmouth Cutter 22
    Bristol 24
    Pacific Seacraft Dana 24
    Bayfield 25
    Cape Dory 25
    Cape Dory 25D
    Pacific Seacraft 25
    Rhodes Meridian 25
    Vancouver 25
    Contessa 26
    Cape Dory 26
    Cheoy Lee Offshore 26
    Columbia 26
    Folkboat 26
    Kaiser 26
    Morris Frances 26
    Pearson Ariel 26
    Voyager 26
    Westerly Centaur 26
    Albin Vega 27
    Bristol 27
    Cape Dory 27
    Cheoy Lee Offshore 27
    Dockrell 27
    Halcyon 27
    Pacific Seacraft Orion 27
    Nor'Sea 27
    Rossiter Pintail 27
    Sea Sprite 27/28
    Tartan 27
    Vancouver 27
    Bristol Channel Cutter 28
    Cape Dory 28
    Cheoy Lee Offshore 28
    Great Dane 28
    Herreshoff H-28

   

    Liberty Custom 28
    Morris Linda 28
    Pearson Triton 28
    Rhodes Ranger 28/29
    Shannon 28
    Southern Cross 28
    Taipan 28
    Westsail 28
    Alberg 29
    Bayfield 29
    Bristol 29
    Columbia 29
    Elizabethan 29
    Islander 29
    Tripp 29
    Westerly Konsort 29
    Alberg 30
    Allied Seawind 30
    Bristol 30
    Cal 30
    Cape Dory 30
    Cheoy Lee Bermuda 30
    Cheoy Lee Luders 30
    Morris Annie 30
    Rawson 30
    Cape George 31
    Cheoy Lee Offshore 31
    Golden Hind 31
    Monsun 31
    Nicholson 31
    Pacific Seacraft 31
    Pacific Seacraft Mariah 31
    Southern Cross 31
    Pearson Vanguard 32
    Rhodes Chesapeake 32
    Westsail 32

[Locutus]

Owly,
I'm familiar with Atom Voyages and its boat list--I linked to this site from there.  And I have talked with James Balwin via email on several occasions.  I hear you on the liners and ballast.  Too bad good catamarans are so bloody expensive.  Trimarans tend to cost less so that's an option too.  Gotta love the spacious decking of a tri.  I think non-structural liners are okay as long as they can be removed below about 5 or 6 inches above the water line.  Any boat I buy with the intent to make passages I want to be able to give the "James Baldwin treatment" with access to the inner hull everywhere below the  waterline and sealed compartments that can contain a holing.  Intermediate term I don't need all that since I'm still working full time and won't do extended cruising until after retirement, which is why I'm looking at Catalinas.

[CharlieJ]

Having spent a day with James and his wife I  can vouch for his knowledge.