gas stoves

[CapnK]

Re: using a liquid gas fueled stove as per Owly in the first post in this thread -

I had much the same thought process going on a few years ago, and lived most of that year using various small liquid gas camp cook stoves. It could be done, with a couple caveats from my experience.

The gold/brown, all-in-one Coleman Duel or Multi fuel unit is a neat contraption which uses the stoves own heat to vaporize fuel for the burner, and (weight aside) works really well for a typical 10-12 minute camping meal. It is not good for daily use simply because it is not designed to deal with lots of heat like that generated by cooking over an extended time. I found this out one evening when I noticed a small jet of flame coming right of of the fuel tank itself, where the rubber seal at the fuel control valve had begun to fail. Luckily I didn't have to deal with a bleve, but I did stop using that stove for more than a quick heating.

The other type of liquid gas stove is the type where the fuel tank is joined by a small hose, perhaps 8-10" long, and the tank is pressurized/fuel vaporized by means of a pump on the tank. These work better for extended periods of heat, as the fuel is removed from the burner location. They are still designed for camping use, though, and as such are built fairly flimsily, and not of marine-grade metals. The one I bought - cannot remember the brand name ATM - is has a green colored scheme to it, and was somewhat pricey. Because: not only does it burn liquid fuels, it will also hook up to propane and/or butane cylinders. This will be my backup stove, due to the fact that it'll burn just about anything short of wood and coal. :) I don't see it holding up to extended use, however.

Alcohol stoves of the type backpackers have been using for 20 or so years now ("Beer Can stoves") work great and use the least possible fuel to get the job done. Using them as burner units inside of an Origo alchy stove top would be the way to go, if that is your fuel of choice.
Note: I did have a beer can stove bleve on me one night, though. It was about 1:30 AM, and I was heading upriver in my dinghy, making a cup of coffee on the thwart, thinking it would help to keep me awake for the hour or so it would take me to get to the ramp.
I use the BCS sitting inside of a square Sterno stove, while water heated in a thin-wall, large aluminum cup. For some reason, just as it started going good, the was a little *pop*, and suddenly what seemed like hundreds of little blue stars bloomed all over the dinghy and my person. Not good. At least it was night, so I could see them. I threw the stove overboard, then put out all of flames on my corpus, then took care of the ones in the dinghy. I used an Esbit solid fuel tablet to finish heating coffee water that night. :)

I have one of the Camp Chef $250 stove/ovens, and overall it is a good product. The company has been great to deal with, the two times I have had to call them. That said, 'drawbacks' are that the materials used in construction are light and seem cheap, not sure how long or well it would hold up to a salty and wet environment if you were to take it to sea. The oven is not quite as wide/deep as our common 2 burner marine store, and overall it doesn't have the thermal mass (or insulation) to bake as well as the more expensive and common propane boat stove/ovens.

I have 2 of those. One was not working and I paid only $100. Looks like I will need to add in maybe $120 in parts for it to work properly - and in the rocess I have taight myself how these work, and how to work on them. :) The other was also used, but working, and I got it for about $250. These work great.

Last, if you come across a CNG stove/oven - forget it. Hard to find the fuel, and very expensive to convert to propane (~$500), and even converted they will not meet insurers specs.

[Phantom Jim]

Ah. for someone to manufacture and sell the pressurized alcohol (and kerosene) two burner marine stoves like Kenyon.  I have one and it works like a charm with little maintenance.  I bought it thirty years ago at a boat junk place and never regretted it.  It is now our pot luck stove for marina events and a back up home cook unit.  If we were to down size boats, I would not hesitate to use it as the galley stove. 

I suspect they are around in boat junk shops. 

[Phantom Jim]

More from Good Old Boat

https://www.audioseastories.com/mb-feb18/

[Bob J (ex-misfits)]

More from Good Old Boat

https://www.audioseastories.com/mb-feb18/

Yea I figured they were going to get alot of flack for that article.
Flush counter mounted stove, the 2 burner Dickenson looks really nice but at 600+, I don't think so. Downloaded the data on the 2 burner Origo on a gimbal it's s tall as the gimbaled Eno.

[CapnK]

More from Good Old Boat...

Love this by the author, made in the response to the predictable, to-be-expected screech of the "OMG Some Bad Poop MIGHT Possibly Happen And Could Be Fatal" overly risk-averse naysayers of our modern age:

"Another thing I consider is that many product warnings have more to do with liability than with actual risk. (Have you read a box of toothpicks lately?) The outdoor-use-only warning could easily be as much a caution about CO poisoning and oxygen depletion than about explosion risk."

[Phantom Jim]

If you could get one of these your worries would be over.  It appears to have come in alcohol and kerosene versions.  There were also freestanding (in the link) and in the counter models.  The in the counter model could easily have a simple box constructed to make a portable unit.

I, personally, do not like or tolerate the sickly-sweet odor generated by the kerosene burners.

http://www.cookwithkenyon.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Homestrand_Alc_Stove_Model_205A_Manual565.pdf

As an aside: if one were very careful and particular, the Good Old Boat article/installation could be made relatively safe.  However, there always some fool who will blow himself up and blame the author and publisher for his lack of good judgement.

[Godot]

More from Good Old Boat...

Love this by the author, made in the response to the predictable, to-be-expected screech of the "OMG Some Bad Poop MIGHT Possibly Happen And Could Be Fatal" overly risk-averse naysayers of our modern age:

"Another thing I consider is that many product warnings have more to do with liability than with actual risk. (Have you read a box of toothpicks lately?) The outdoor-use-only warning could easily be as much a caution about CO poisoning and oxygen depletion than about explosion risk."

<rant>

This is probably worth a whole new thread (or perhaps just thrown in the Burn Pit of Bad Ideas); but I am about fed up with all the safety Nazis of the world. And I'm not alone. Go to most forums or Facebook and read a thread about, well, almost anything, and as often as not the author will put in a lengthy caveat of all the safety measures he has taken ("yes I wore safety glasses, a helmet, an orange reflective vest, steel toes shoes and a life vest. I also checked the expiration date of all ingredients, used a lab certified thermometer to check the temperature, checked with the CDC, the FAA, the EPA, and the local fire department. And don't worry, I made sure to get a permit and full inspection from the Building Department. NOW, let me tell you how I made the world's best grilled cheese sandwich...").

If the caveat is skipped (and sometimes even if it isn't), there will be at least a handful of people asking, or demanding, that the original poster clarify some issue ("yes, your safety precautions look almost adequate, I guess, but you never posted the nutritional information to your grilled cheese sandwich!!").

I don't generally post sailing photos anymore because someone is very likely to scold me for not wearing a PFD. I have been told that I should be wearing a helmet (just in case the boom goes boom against my head). Single handing is irresponsible. I have injured myself before, and by admitting to the injury I'm more likely to be asked if I was wearing protective gear than if I am all right. I have been asked so many times this year about the Flu shot that I am simply unwilling to even consider it. I will not be badgered!

Life is dangerous. I, for one, am not willing to live in a bubble. I try to be educated about the risks I take, and I choose to take, or not, the precautions I feel necessary.

The whole risk averse nature of the world is getting tiresome. If someone sinks a boat a thousand miles offshore, he is berated upon rescue. I have come to believe that EPIRBs and satellite communications are a devil's deal, trading the favor of a chance at rescue and somewhat less personal responsibility for the ridicule and shame of rescue, and perhaps the eventual regulation of offshore sailing. Sailing is dangerous. Motorcycling is dangerous. Driving a car is dangerous. Camping is dangerous. Living in Baltimore is dangerous. Eating lots of fried foods is dangerous. The world is dangerous. Sooner or later something is going to put you down, whether it is an accident caused by inattention, inexperience, incompetence, or pure bad luck. Or if it is clogged arteries or a failed liver from lifestyle choices. No one gets out alive.

Someday, when the time comes for me to take off into the wild blue, I will probably have an EPIRB on the boat, though not so much for my sake as for those who love me at home. If the situation resolves where I don't have anyone who desperately worries about me, I will likely leave it behind. I do dangerous things. I don't want to die; but neither do I want to worry myself into not living. I make mistakes, frequently. And I've been known to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. The possibility of imminent death has happened to me several times, and more than once I just barely managed to stay on the right side of the ground. Far too many of my friends have already passed. Life is very, very finite.

Be smart. And be careful. But not too careful. Live while you can. Someday that choice will be taken away from you. Someday, maybe soon, maybe many decades from now, your clock will run out. That is OK. It happens to all of us. Don't be so afraid of that day that you lose the joy of living today.

</rant>

(sorry about the rant...I meant to type a short, joking reply and got carried away. For what it is worth I checked my box of toothpicks and can happily report that they don't have a warning label on them. Although, I simply don't remember what decade they where purchased.)

[Godot]

If you could get one of these your worries would be over.  It appears to have come in alcohol and kerosene versions.  There were also freestanding (in the link) and in the counter models.  The in the counter model could easily have a simple box constructed to make a portable unit.

I, personally, do not like or tolerate the sickly-sweet odor generated by the kerosene burners.

http://www.cookwithkenyon.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Homestrand_Alc_Stove_Model_205A_Manual565.pdf

I had one, long, long ago, when I was collecting parts for a boat I was planning to build. I ended up giving it away. Tried it once. Didn't like it. But the problem could have been user error.

Now-a-days, not too many people seem happy with pressurized alcohol, and practically no one (Charlie aside) uses kerosene anymore. So many draw backs and not too many advantages over a non-pressurized alcohol stove. But, if you want one, I bet you could find one in second hand stores or on e-bay.

[CharlieJ]

Lol. Charlie doesn't use kerosene either. 😊

I burn 100% mineral spirits.  Burnsmuch cleaner than kerosene and doesn't smell the same

[Frank]

Two 👍👍 and a grog for the rant Adam!!

[Phantom Jim]

You rock Adam!

[Phantom Jim]

I agree with you that many are not into pressurized alcohol (kerosene).  It is a bit of trouble to prime and light, but it does cook good and in my experience hotter than non-pressurized alcohol.  I find the pressurized alcohol is more like butane, propane and natural gas that one experiences at home.

It is another tool that can be used by small boat owners.  Alcohol will not blow you up but it will burn your boat up if you get it lit inside of a cabinet.  It is easy to put out with water, but the flames are so hard to see.

I really like Charlie's approach: fit what fits and what works for you and your boat.  One pot cookers are so much better than no cooker at all!

[Bob J (ex-misfits)]

You guys are the best.
You're all grog worthy!

[CharlieJ]

Actually I began using a kerosene stove back pre 1980. When I was building my trimaran. we lived in a tar paper cabin in the boatyard. I bought a 3 burner stove with an oven which we used until til boat was launched, then moved it aboard. All stainless with a 2 gallon tank separate from the stove with a hose. Pressurized with a bicycle pump

Stove was built by Shipmate, all stainless, and served us well for many year. Sadly it seems Shipmate has quit making that sort of stove

Then aboard my next vessel I had a single burner kero stove made in Germany. Still have that, but all the valves are shot so it can no longer be pressurized

No pics of the 3 burner, but this one is the single. All were always run on mineral Spirits. Pic is coffee being brewed at anchor in Florida on a trip over there. Legs belong to my Ex

[Phantom Jim]

Charlie, that is a perfect little burner with a good stable base.  There some new and older gasoline single burners that would do in a cockpit, or inside once filled and sealed.  The gas needs to be stored outside so it cannot get into the boat, though.

The accompanying photo is a Coleman Peak burner that burns either white gas and mineral spirits, via different attachments to the burner top.  This is our backup burner when we cruise.  We always have mineral spirits or kerosene for an oil anchor light.  Should our propane become inoperable, we can continue our cruise with some cooking ability.

If I were to use the burner as my only cooking source, I would fine some way to make a more stable base.

[CapnK]

The above pictured Coleman stove is of the style which IMO in not suitable for long-term cooking jobs (like baking, or making several pots of food on a row) due to the heat generated being so close to the tank and the pretty small rubber seals that are used to keep it enclosed within. Cooking longer than say 20 minutes, the tank begins to heat up, especially if you are using a large pot on top of the burner, and it is reflecting heat back downwards.
They are a great little stove for quick camping food, and I like them for that - don't get me wrong! In fact, I have 2 of them, haved used them kayaking and backpacking and such for a number of years. :)
But when you use one for long enough that you see flame start to spontaneously jet from the side of the fuel tank, you'll understand why I think there are better alternatives. ;D

[Phantom Jim]

You may well be correct about this burner not being suitable for long term cooking.  The most i have used it was to heat the kettle in the picture.  I may have to rethink my premise of a back-up cooker.

Thanks

[Frank]

I've had a Forespar mini 2000 gimballed single burner stove for years.
They quit making them....now back due to demand.

Pro's
Very light
Super easy to take off to store and re attach when needed (great, quick mounts!) (buy extra mounts...go galley and cockpit and ?)
Very fast heat...boils water quickly
Small...stows well

Con's
Lightly built
Works best with their pots and coffee Parker ($$$)


https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=14122

[Frank]

Pic of it on my ole Ariel
Hanging over the sink with cylinder off

Would make a great "heat water or soup" offshore stove in addition to a fixed larger unit below. Again...get an extra non intrusive mount for cockpit too.

[CapnK]

PJim I wouldn't worry about it, you should be fine. :D Keep in mind I was using it daily and also experimenting, thinking long-term usage. In many years prior of using that style of stove casually (ie for camping) I never had a problem with it. What I learned is *only* that if I am going to be cooking something for a while, like a recipe that takes 30 minutes (time) to come together in a large saucepan (reflecting heat back onto tank), that isn't the best stove to use, especially given that I have alternatives. I'd use a butane/propane stove for that type of application, is all. :)