New LED bulbs draining batteries (help)

[lastgreatgeneration]

So I bought a handful of LED bulbs off of amazon. They had good reviews and sell well, most people use them for taillights. They draw 4.5 watts. They are the standard that would fit into an old Chevy pickup.

After I installed them I noticed several strange things going on.

Can not run both incandescent and led at the same time (LED dims)

Last several days battery's have dropped from 12.5 to around 10 volts

New led bulbs were very bright at first but now are very dim when switched on

What gives? I'm pretty good with electrical stuff but this problem baffles me. Even before when I used the incandescently regularly the 100 watt usually kept the batteries topped off. Now that I am thinking about it the only thing I can think of is the two terminals are too close together and grounding out or rather burning itself to bits. However I have not had any breakers trip.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
Dan

[Norman]

Dan, more information is needed.

The 100 watt is a battery charger?  Solar?

Do you now have the same number of bulbs in service, or did you increase the number?

LEDs are very voltage sensitive, and when you increase the load by switching on the incandescent too, the voltage drops a little, and the LEDs dim some.  This should not be much if your wiring has good connections and is adequate size.

How long have you been using the LEDs?  The terminals should not be leaking across unless they have been exposed to a corrosive atmosphere for many months.

I would suspect that something other than the LEDs are draining the battery.  If you have a suitable ammeter, put it in the lead from the battery, with everything turned off, then turn on one device at a time, and record the actual amp draw of each. 

If any one of the switches produces more amps than expected, trace down the problem.

High current devices may be beyond the rating of the ammeter, so be careful, and do not exceed its rating.

Let us know how the investigation goes, and any new information, so we can further theorize on what is happening.

Norman

[CharlieJ]

ditto

[lastgreatgeneration]

Thanks for the information. I have purchased 4 led bulbs, 2 in operation at once. I never had any problem with running the incandescents before. The panel is a 100 watt that usually keeps the batteries topped off. I'm on vacation and I switched off the main. I'll go back to the boat tomorrow and see where the batteries are at.

I installed the LED bulbs about a week ago and have been using them since. Like I said when I installed them at first they were very very bright and then they noticeably dimmed with a few days of use and this is all when the voltage on the batteries dropped very low. I have a decent multimeter I will have to do some more investigating. Is there any way to test the led bulbs? Could be a faulty bulb. Maybe I will try to rotate some of the bulbs and see if I get the same results,

[s/v Faith]

The thing I see that is the clue is that they are automotive tail light replacemtbs. While it seems like a bulb is a bulb, tail lights are different. For a normal cars flasher to work, it requires a higher current flow (flasher works by drawing a current across a bi-metallic strip that heats, opens, then cools and closes....  that is why when you have a burned out bulb it flashes twice as fast)....  a led bulb does not draw enough to operate the flasher. these bulbs use a resistor to intentiallly draw more current.

  Return the bulbs, find replacements that you can ensure won't be designed to mount in an automotive application... 

[Bob J (ex-misfits)]

The thing I see that is the clue is that they are automotive tail light replacemtbs. While it seems like a bulb is a bulb, tail lights are different.

Ya know that thought crossed my mind when I first saw Dan's post so maybe you're on to something.  Battery voltage @ 10? Those batteries are cooked. Hard saying if they'll ever recover. Also if you use voltage as an indication of soc, they need to rest with no draw on them for at least 24 hours,  maybe longer.  At 11.5 volts my trojan's are only at 10% soc...

[lastgreatgeneration]

Thanks so much for the insightful replies. I'm returning them and starting over. Any reccomendations for marine led bulbs? I have bought a few things from marinebeam and have been satisfied. However they wanted $18 for one bulb. I found these off Amazon 2pack for $13. I'm sending them back.

Dan

[Cyric30]

If your looking for a 12v LED bulb for lighting, you might check out some RV LEDs. i will leave the discussion of Marine vs RV to those who know much more than i.

Ive used this web site to look up bulbs in the past as a reference when looking for solar cabin lights, But i have not purchased anything from them.

https://www.superbrightleds.com/cat/rv-led-lights/

[lastgreatgeneration]

Thanks for the replies. I have since gone back to oil lamp lighting for the time being. It is true, the batteries are toast. I will have to get new ones in the spring, just as well the other ones needed replaced anyways. Now on to golf cart 6 volt in series or buy the stock group 24s. I would like to relocate the batteries where the engine is currently.

[Frank]

I dug up one of my older posts to copy here.
More important than my post is the links near the bottom to exceptional info on batteries and controllers by a marine mechanic in Maine

"Solar uppdate

Last year I had my 230 watt panel, 2-6volt golf cart batteries, 1 "deep cycle/start" battery and an older style charge controller.
I was running all LED's and an Engel cold plate in the ice box.

This worked fine for about 2mths, but I found as time went on the set up was having trouble keeping up even tho the sun was up longer and I'd switch batteries to "all"

I know a bunch of you already will know this stuff, but thought I'd share for others...

So, have come to learn that:
1-there are no "true" deep cycle/start batteries.
The only deep cycle are just that "deep cycle"
2-it's a no no to draw from dissimilar batteries....not good for either

So, to improve things, this year I have:
*added 1-1/2 inch high density foam inside my ice box (used as fridge)
This not only improved the insulation but reduced the interior volume a bit
both add to efficiency
*removed the group 27 "deep/start" and replaced with 2 more 6 Volt golf  cart batteries....4 total now...al the same
*switched out the conventional charge controller for a blue Sky MPPT unit

This set up is working so well thay even tho the last 2 days have been sun/cloud mix, it has kept up with the fridge (engel plate in ice box) and a small engel cooler now used and my "freezer" with meats inside. This morning waking up it was still at 12.39.

Very happy with the addition of the lil "freezer" and the system performance
And gotta thank:
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/solar_controller_testing
and
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/deep_cycle_battery
Great articles
Don't want to turn this into a solar/battery thread but thought I'd share how Allure's new set up is working "out here"

[Bob J (ex-misfits)]

12.39 voltage, that would be 70% SOC for the Trojans I have in my boat.
The only issue in relaying on voltage to determine SOC, the batteries should have a resting period of at least 24 hours, maybe longer not being drawn from. Does your solar mppt controller track amp hours/SOC on the battery bank.

Rod Collins  (Mainesail) is a pretty awesome & generous guy to put the information up on his site to help educate so many. I hired him for a consult when I was rewiring my boat & putting the propulsion bank for the electric drive together.

[Frank]

All I know is it's in the 12.3s in the morning and goes up as soon as the sun come up ..... To a lessor extent when cloudy but still up. Today was sunny and they cut off at 14.05 by 11am.
When your living aboard there is no resting period...
I'm no expert...loved HIS articles!
FWIW, I gave up a seperate start battery as per his suggestion and replaced with 2 more 6 volts...
Lil Yanmar starts instant so no prob

[lastgreatgeneration]

Thanks for the detailed replies as always. I will be going with the golf cart batteries. I will be removing the inboard and completing the outboard option. Basically I will be running just lights, and maybe charging the phone or iPad. I like keeping the boat simple and the CD 28 is perfect for this. Oh, we have had a lot of ice for a few weeks in Annapolis. Some guy tried to go sailing today and was stuck cold. I appreciate and admire his enthusiasm though.

[Cyric30]

Ice breaker she is not :)