Who writes this BS?

[Frank]

I'm excited to be joining a group of 11 or 12 other small boat guys for a weeks cruise in the North Channel, Lake Huron starting next Saturday.
This will be my 4th time there having previously cruised in both a 17ft Suncat and an M15.
In prep, I thought I would google "North Channel boating" to see if there was any new ideas to consider. PS... I'll be cruising on my 17ft Suncat this trip. Many of those I'll be joining are on smaller vessels..
You can imagine how inadequate I felt after reading that a minimum of "at least 30ft is required" to be comfortable!
What poop!
No wonder there are less small boat folks with BS like that out there...and on a government site!

[Phantom Jim]

Ah, another expert trying to tell us what is safe...

[Norman]

If I still had my Neptune 16, I would be inclined to go, but my Macgregor 22 is too much trouble to rig now that I am older.

I suspect that an adventure with a rock would be much less damaging to the 16 footer, too, compared to a 30 footer.  Certainly, it would go harmlessly across most of them, as it was a center board boat, and drew less than 1 foot of water.  The lack of a legal head would be a problem, the Canadians probably frown on a 5 gallon plastic bucket.

I have always been overkill on flares, though, as I never throw away old ones, and supplement with 2 hours worth of highway flares, flare gun and shells, and 12 pencil arials.  A mid size waterproof box of stuff.

Obviously, I did not need a dinghy for it.

I spend serious attention to the NOA  broadcasts, and watch the sky for conformation of their forecasts.  With even a casual eye on the sky, you should be able to avoid being caught in the larger channels by a storm, and the small craft can find shelter in tiny coves, and slots between rocks.  In such places, just run in to the end, and beach it, fiberglass does not care.

Hopefully that was not copied from the signup site, or other cruise instructions from the sponsoring organization.

Norman

[Frank]

It is a great cruising grounds, lots of places to hide in wind and WX is consistent. All good.
Only issue up there is READ YOUR CHARTS WELL.
It truly is an incredibly beautiful area but submerged granite is very unforgiving 😄
Looking forward to being on the very clear water there again.
You would fit right in Norm.

[w00dy]

Sounds like a cool trip, but yeah, what a goofy "tip". Maybe it's their version of a "barrier to entry". If you aren't at least this tall, don't bother??

I'm baffled that they would even include that sentence at all. It would be better to suggest the recommended preparations for inclement weather. Just because your junk pile is over 30 ft doesn't make you better prepared.

[Phantom Jim]

Well said.....many small boats, think Flicka at 20 feet, are much better than a much bigger crappy (think clorox bottle) production boat.

I am tired of weather forecasters telling me to put on a sweater rather than giving me the temperature and whether there will be rain.  The new GGR race starting this July should be very interesting to monitor since all boats are between 32 and 36 feet and none designed later than 1988.  They cannot have any equipment that would not have been on Suhaili in 1968!

www.goldengloberace.com

[Frank]

There was a group of us on Montgomery 15's happily cruising there in 06...
Guess we didn't get that memo
Annie Westland cruised for several complete seasons there (2+ months at a time) on her little potter 14.
Guess she didn't get that memo either 😄

[CharlieJ]

There was a group of us on Montgomery 15's happily cruising there in 06...
Guess we didn't get that memo
Annie Westland cruised for several complete seasons there (2+ months at a time) on her little potter 14.
Guess she didn't get that memo either 😄

I hven't talked to Annie since last year sometime. How's she doing? anyone know. Lost her info when my phone crashed

[Frank]

I emailed her about 2 weeks ago CJ
No reply? She may well already be out on her boat tho...

I'll pm you her email

[CapnK]

Don't be cluttering up their waterways with your dinky lil botes, eh?

;D

::) ??? :o

[Godot]

Well...they actually say "to handle inclement weather in comfort" so perhaps they aren't making safety judgments; but comfort judgments. I mean, that is also pretty subjective and different for everyone; but still... Big boats might not necessarily be safer; but generally speaking they are more comfortable, whether the weather is inclement or not.

An interesting read on another trip is Sailing to Bermuda by Private Yacht.

Lots of interesting commentary in that article. For voyage time they suggest "On a 30-foot boat it usually takes a little over 5 days to complete the voyage from New York to Bermuda." A thirty foot boat is their baseline? What century are we in! Geeze...most people I talk to think 40 feet is the minimum to cross the to the other side of the Chesapeake! (ok...I exaggerate. But not by much). Of course, they later suggest "Bigger the boat, safer would be the voyage. With boats of size below 30-foot, the risk increases considerably given the behavior of the Atlantic ocean. A boat of size 35 feet or more with four to five crew members can easily provide a comfortable and safe sailing across the Atlantic to Bermuda." so they don't get full kudos. But, still, it is more sailfar friendly than I'm used to seeing.

They also suggest, when discussing equipment and mentioning the vulnaribility of electronics (GPS) in a marine environment that "it is preferable that at least one of the crew members is well experienced in celestial navigation." Hmm....what decade was this written in? They also mention the AT&T High Seas Station which really dates the article. Yet...there it is

[Phantom Jim]

The Hiscocks would scoff at these instructions for cruising to Bermuda.  In Wander III they circumnavigated the globe with a tiny engine and a few gallons of petrol and really no electronics.  Just the two of them, not 4 or 5.  The Hiscocks never liked the subsequent boats they build more than Wanderer III.   It is not the size of the boat but the size of the character of the crew and their skills.  I would much prefer to be out in a smaller, well found boat that I (or wife and I) could capably handle than a larger boat that depends on electronics and gadgets for safety.  I trust my skills, I don't trust gadgets and electronics. (Note: I like gadgets and electronics...just don't bet my life with them)

https://www.cruisingworld.com/sailboats/wanderer-iii-toast#page-2

[CharlieJ]

What a couple they were. When thy HAD moved up to the 45 foot steel boat, I saw a article were Susan claimed she so badly missed "our dear wanderer III"

[Godot]

The Hiscocks would scoff at these instructions for cruising to Bermuda.

As would many of the classic voyagers. It was a simpler time in many ways. Now-a-days expectations of comfort are higher. It seems that fear has been bred into us as a culture. Physical risk and basic, simple living is frowned upon. Not to mention the poop you can get on the wonderful Internet for anything that goes wrong.

Of course, folks on this forum tend to think a bit more classically. And for all the poop millennials get now-a-days (deserved and undeserved), there does seem to be a new movement for experiences over comfort. Van living is a big thing, as is Tiny Houses, and other adventurous activities. Perhaps this is a side effect of the poor job prospects newly minted millennials have had out of college the past few years. It will be interesting to see if the apparent trends continue with improved opportunities.

In Wander III they circumnavigated the globe with a tiny engine and a few gallons of petrol and really no electronics.  Just the two of them, not 4 or 5.  The Hiscocks never liked the subsequent boats they build more than Wanderer III.   It is not the size of the boat but the size of the character of the crew and their skills. 

I would much prefer to be out in a smaller, well found boat that I (or wife and I) could capably handle than a larger boat that depends on electronics and gadgets for safety.  I trust my skills, I don't trust gadgets and electronics. (Note: I like gadgets and electronics...just don't bet my life with them)

Me too.

Things break. It's life. It shouldn't affect the safety of a voyage. My point was actually that the Bermuda recommendations where actually quite sane compared to what you generally hear now-a-days. Yes, you can go to Bermuda in a boat smaller than 30'. Many have. I fully expect to myself at some point. But now-a-days, the only way you are likely to do it is sailing on a boat built in the then-a-days. Times change and expectations change. The ocean is more or less the same, though, and many smaller boat have, and still do, make the trip.

Regards the 4-5 people on a boat 35' or more...well...if you want to have four or five crew aboard, the extra length will definitely make things much more comfortable and less crowded. Bigger crews make for easier watches which is more comfortable. Bigger crews also provide a lot of camaraderie. Of course, bigger crews need a lot more stores, and there is a bigger chance of crew discord. Given the way the article discussed some very basic advice regards things like showering, bringing enough water, the mere existence of the gulf stream, foul weather gear, etc,  I'm guessing the article is targeting a more casual (and perhaps timid) sailor.

Personally, I'd probably fall into the one or two people aboard camp. I doubt that is typical for a relatively short voyage like this. And I'd probably be fine with a bigger crew. But I lean towards a single-hander mindset, and the majority of my sailing is single-handed, or occasionally with my wife or brother-in-law. I don't pretend to be a great sailor; but I am confident in my ability to handle my boat safely (although docking in a current or decent breeze is a female dog on Seeker and much easier with crew).

[Phantom Jim]

Well said.  We need to think for ourselves and make decisions that are appropriate for our boat, not follow the crowd.  The crowd mentality will lead some into making poor decisions by you thinking that the "others" have some magical knowledge or information.  Most likely they have the same information as you and probably not the same knowledge (most likely less).   

I always suggest to new boaters that they read the masters who have gone before us and get the basic information and knowledge that let them have successful voyages.  The extra electronics and gizmos may allow more comfortable passages, but basic seamanship will get you to port.  I think the Pardeys reported that they spent less than 1% of their time on their boats on a passage.  They absolutely did not shy away from a passage but they enjoyed being at anchor more.

Four or more people (adults) on a 35 foot boat is probably two too many in my opinion.  Passages are generally not the end goal of cruising but a means to get where you want to cruise.  The literature is full of couples making ocean crossings safely.  For every "horror" story there are hundreds of "non-horror" crossings that go unreported because that does not sell copy.

A rule of thumb for schooners is one captain, one cook and one man per mast.  These ships plied the world's oceans in pursuit of profit and needed to get to port to realize that profit.  They wanted only what was necessary to safely and efficiently make the voyage.

[SeaHusky]

The EU-regulations rate boats i four classes with A being "Oceanworthy". The smallest A-klass boat is the Albin Ballad at 30'. I think this is due to capsize index where no boat shorter than 30' qualifies. That is part of the reason Sven Yrvind has named his latest creation Exlex (outlaw). It doesn't conform to any rules or regulations yet still crosses oceans in safety.

[Phantom Jim]

If you are not in an approved class, you can't go sailing?  My thought is that you should do what you want, but do not expect any rescue if you have been totally stupid!  Darwinian Deselection at it's finest hour;)

[CharlieJ]

Can't remember what Sven Yrvind called himself when he built that first boiat  in his mothers basement. It was tiny though- he sailed it in the North  Sea. Anybody?

[Godot]

Can't remember what Sven Yrvind called himself when he built that first boiat  in his mothers basement. It was tiny though- he sailed it in the North  Sea. Anybody?

Sven Lundin?

[CharlieJ]

Hey- that looks right. thanks