Rescued after a roll in the Pacific

[w00dy]

This is a well written account of a cruising couple's ordeal after their boat was hit by a large wave and rolled.

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/199424-epic-boat-loss/

Its interesting to note how many things ended up getting thrown around the cabin. The utter chaos of having the whole boat turned upside down is described in great detail. They had FOUR bilge pumps aboard, and all were fouled by bits of wet paperbacks that got past the filters.

Lots of great detail to ruminate on, especially for anyone who is considering ocean travel in a small boat.

[SeaHusky]

I read that but I can't really see what could have been done to prevent it? To me it seems that their boat simply broke where things were correctly secured. Perhaps, after 17 years of world cruising, the structure of the boat was weakened? The only thing I thought of was that if I was doing five knots on bare poles I would lay some lines or a drogue aft and batten down rather than steer?

[rorik]

I'm curious why they didn't heave to.

[w00dy]

Not sure what kind of boat they had. I have heard that traditional, long keeled boats will heave to and stand to a drouge better than modern designs with smaller fin keels. Apparently the fin keeled boats do better running off. Not that I have much experience in survival storms.

[Bubba the Pirate]

I found their profile on Noonsite. The boat was an Omega 46. Tho it says Omega 45, I think that's a typo as a 45 doesn't seem to exist.

http://www.noonsite.com/General/CruisersWebsites/portrait-of-a-cruiser-2013-jim-and-joy-carey-with-daughters-kelly-and-erin

Fin keel with rudder on a skeg.
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=8427

I would have many questions if I was to meet them, but I choose to not hypothetically question a skipper's decisions in such a situation.

Although it bothers me that no one seems to be willing to talk about scuttling boats in this situation. I know it is *way* easier said than done, but I think it is not only good seamanship, it is a moral imperative to NOT leave a hazard to someone else's navigation when abandoning a ship.

[w00dy]

Not that I have much experience in survival storms.

Let me rephrase. Not that I have had ANY experience with those kind of conditions. Only in books, thankfully.

Although it bothers me that no one seems to be willing to talk about scuttling boats in this situation. I know it is *way* easier said than done, but I think it is not only good seamanship, it is a moral imperative to NOT leave a hazard to someone else's navigation when abandoning a ship.

I was wondering the same. When Rebel Heart was abandoned, they cut the hoses or something and sank her, but they were also rescued by a naval vessel I think. In this case, it seems like there was very little time for anything but getting the couple aboard.

I would have many questions if I was to meet them, but I choose to not hypothetically question a skipper's decisions in such a situation.

Right there with 'ya.

[Lars]

Boat is actually a kelly peterson 44 /46. I have a friend who knows these people and has a sistership. these are well thought of popular offshore cruisers. looks like injury and fatigue were what caused them to abandon the boat. I expect it will be recovered. they were nearing the coast along cobb seamount and this likely caused some big seas to break on the boat.

[CapnK]

Here's an overlay graphic I made trying to figure out where they were when rolled. The "180 miles off of Grays Harbor" figure came from the Hawaii news report. Water is still pretty darn deep there, but then again there is a LOT of water moving around there...

[Lars]

about 200+ miles off astoria lots of shallowing water out there some really shallow

[Lars]

depths down to 23 meters from many thousands

[Owly055]

     We are advised NOT to read about disasters at sea if we plan to go voyaging, presumably lest we lose heart.   Personally I take the opposite position.  There is something to be learned from any such situation.   I've survived situations where others died in similar situations several times ONLY because I have a habit of thinking about these potential situations and what I might do.   That is NOT the same as obsessing.  It's about being prepared.  I do have an additional advantage that has served me incredibly well.   When I am facing a "survival" situation, where I could be dead in moments, I seem to do the opposite of panic.    I get extremely calm, and time slows down compared to my thought processes.  A fraction of a second seems like many minutes...... everything goes into slow mo.   This allows me to think through the options, and make the right choice with the best survival potential.  The first time this happened, it was like I had popped out of my body, and was able to view and measure things, yet I had total control.  It all happened in a matter of just a couple of seconds, but after the fact I was exhausted and shaking....... four lives hung in the balance.   Usually it's been just me.   I've faced more of these situations than most people will, I suspect.

      These people made the decision they felt they must under the circumstances, and we have no right to second guess their choice.  We can however look at the circumstances and ask ourselves what could have been done differently.    In this case they were being blown southward toward the mouth of the Columbia under bare poles under rough conditions, but not apparently survival conditions.  Presumably the wave that rolled them was a rogue from a different direction.
     Should one hand steer while running before this storm in the wrong direction..... Cape Flattery getting farther and farther away.   Why???   This seems like a good time to have a sea anchor off the port or starboard bow.  By all reports this results in a far smoother ride due to the slick the boat creates.  What would Hiscocks be doing under these conditions?  I'd personally rather be "parked" under a sea anchor, than being blown farther and farther away.  Would that have prevented the capsize?  I don't know.

     What would a 30' cat such as I'm currently looking at do under these conditions?   Hopefully not capsize!!  Experience with the Queen's Birthday Storm disaster in the Tasman sea suggests that multihulls with the boards up weather these conditions far better than monohulls.  If they capsize, they stay inverted, but that doesn't seem to happen.  Those that were abandoned all stayed on their feet, except one that was intentionally rammed and sunk at the captain's request.   Others that have been abandoned have mostly survived very well, with the exception of the Gunboat that survived but was dismasted and lost the entire bridge deck cabin off the east coast on the way to Bermuda.   It's jammed and bent rudders put it at a bad angle to the sea, so it's hardly a good example.


                                                      H.W.

[Godot]

If I had to make a guess...

Based on the helicopter being at the edge of its' operational range, and the high stress, high stakes, must decide this second (and no do-overs!!) environment and the strong desire of the coast guard to rescue those in need (i'd guess they where, uh, strongly encouraging the abandonment), I think they made a snap decision that was the best they could do at the moment. I suspect they've done a whole lot of second guessing since then.

I'm pretty much done judging the decisions of others. poop happens and we do the best we can. Sometimes the wrong choice is made. Sometimes bad judgment prevails. And sometimes, something that looks like it could have gone a different way, could have ended up worse.

[Bubba the Pirate]

I just read a report from sv Tiger Lilly on FB. I don't know Tiger Lilly. Apparently the husband had a bleeding head wound. Liferaft, dodger & bimini swept away, rig standing but mains'l shredded. They lost all comms but VHF and EPIRB. No one answered on VHF so they decided to flip the switch.

Here's the FB link. I couldn't find it in the wild:
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2118408121733388&id=2079025912338276

[Owly055]

     According to a recent post on another forum, the Kelaerin has been recovered, and apparently towed in by the USCG!!   Wonderful news!    This is based on a single post, and I've not been able to find anything further on line to confirm it.....   

                                             H.W.

[Bubba the Pirate]

The only sad part of that, if the vessel was recovered, is that it will discourage people from scuttling their boat.

I still think that if you are abandoning ship to be rescued, it is your moral imperative to scuttle that boat. Easier said than done, of course, but still the right thing, proper seamanship, to do.

[Norman]

That is good news on several levels.

No floating hulk to endanger other mariners.
They can recover what was not ruined by seawater, or overboard.
Once again, they have their beloved vessel, and can make their choice of its future, possibly returning to sailing her.
She is an impressive vessel, and if sold, will be a fine one for a future owner.


Sailing Anarchy, as usual, had some hard criticism of the abandoning of the vessel, and poor choices of seamanship resulting in the roll.

Choices of this sort are always easy to second guess.  They survived, the rescue crew survived, all the other factors are history.  Good luck for all, and I wish them well.

There was some debate on the real state of fuel on board the helicopter, reported at 1 minute.  Pilots do not set down away from their home field unless it  is not safe to continue, and I believe that there was little left, and the pilot made the safe choice.

One of the links was to a rescue where the passengers were not too upset when there was an announcement that the may not make it all the way, but realized how serious the conditions were when the CG crew donned survival gear.  That one did not reach an airport.  That brought back less than happy memories of a ride in an Air force C47 across the North Sea, loss of the port engine, and donning a 'poopy suit', parachute, and inflatable vest.  We did make it to the airport, but never decreased throttle until actual touchdown.  Perfect estimate of the rate of decent and distance to TD.

Norman

[Norman]

PS Bubba, time was way too short to scuttle her due to helicopter fuel issues, they barely made a successful rescue.  There are some things dictated by time and conditions.  Simple survival was at issue, and the rescue team were the only ones that fully realized just how much each second meant to reach land.

Otherwise, I do agree with your opinion for the generic case.

Normanj

[w00dy]

Sailing Anarchy Arrogance, as usual, had some hard criticism of the abandoning of the vessel, and poor choices of seamanship resulting in the roll.

FTFY  ;D

[SeaHusky]

For a lighter twist here's a successful rescue of a single handed small boat on a reef.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADIf4V2z0Bo
Any thoughts on what to do in this situation?

[Owly055]

     Scuttling a boat under these circumstances is a far more difficult proposition than some folks seem to realize.  First of all, the boat's interior is dark and sloshing with water to a significant depth.  Then there is the fact of facing a LOT of psychological if not outright pressure to abandon quickly, from the coastie who is aboard...... gather your stuff and get out NOW!!    Are you going to crawl around in icy sloshing water full of debris, and possibly sewage and battery acid in the dark, looking for a sea cock to open.   Are they going to ram it and sink it with the chopper?

     When one puts out an emergency call or signal, you should assume that the outcome will probably be abandoning ship, weather that is your original intent or not. Once emergency services are on scene, the pressure becomes intense.  They've expended energy, and time, and taken considerable risk, put their lives on the line.    Their "statistic" is rescues made and lives saved.  That's the score they keep, the notches in their "gun" so to speak.   Weather their official stated policy is to pressure you to abandon, or not, that pressure is very real......   They want you safe and on dry land, another point or two to add to their score.  They do NOT want to go back empty handed, and risk leaving you to your own devices, to possibly die, or to be forced to make a second run.  This is characteristic of ANY emergency service.   I've watched people subjected to intense pressure to get into an ambulance when it was entirely unnecessary....... for a very expensive "taxi ride".    In a car wreck, they will virtually force you to submit to treatment and that very expensive "taxi ride". They dispatch ambulances, fire trucks, and patrolmen, all of whom will exert this pressure.   I've seen people also virtually forced to abandon their homes and property in wildland fire situations, where a neighbor who had the guts to resist remained and fought and saved his home.   I'm not meaning to criticize emergency responders.  It is the nature of their profession.  If they fly you off your boat to dry land YOU WILL LIVE, and that is their goal.  If you remain, you may live.... or not.   If you are banged up in a car wreck, you may be fine handling your own cuts and bruises, but if they throw you into an ambulance they know that you will be monitored until you are in the hands of a professional doctor, who then takes responsibility for releasing you.

     As to scuttling your boat, I do not see a simple and safe way to do that under such circumstances, unless you have made some prior provision so you can open a sea cock from the cockpit...... which seems rather stupid to me..... it could cost  you the boat.   Personally I strongly dislike through hulls, and considering building a 30' catamaran, I'm looking at having NO through hulls at all.   With outboards, there is no reason why one must have any through hulls.   Perhaps just sink drains in the galley and head, far above the water line.
     Obviously the coast guard does not consider scuttling the boat an imperative.    If they did, their swimmers would carry explosives for the purpose..........


                                                               H.W.