Sanibel 18 vs Potter 19

[Farseer]

Hey all..new here and getting ready to buy a trailer sailor.
Need some advice on which boat to get.

Boat will be used on the sassafras,elk rivers and Chesapeake Bay.
I've done a search and info on the Sanibel 18 is scarce.
I know the Potter 19 is built a bit more sturdy as far as hardware.
Both are beachable which is great for what I'm looking for.

Any info would help as far as sailing characteristics and seaworthiness.
Thanks for any help.

[Captain Smollett]

Own equivalent of Sanibel. Power's out right now so will post more later. Search here for "Wave Function" if you want to see some stories.

[CapnK]

Hi, Farseer - welcome aboard!

Wow, tough call, as they are very similar boats. Disclaimer: I've sailed neither, at one point though had decided on buying a WWP19 - but wound up with a CP23D. That said: I think the deciding factor for me, looking at these two boats and all things being equal (like price ;) ) it would come down to condition and "inclusions" - extra stuff like equipment that is part of the package.

That the WWP is still in production is no small thing when it comes to finding and using the resource base of an active Owners group, a big plus.
The Sanibel is a little more pleasing to the eye, IMO, but I know that may well not translate to it being a better sailing boat, overall.

So, the net result of my answer, would be "it depends". :) Not much an answer, that. ;D

Could I suggest another question for you, for this group here in particular - along these lines: "I'm looking at the Sanibal and the WWP 19, are there any others similar boats I should consider? My primary concerns/needs/wants are beachability, etc etc..." and maybe explain why you find those particulars desirable, what they are. You may well find out there are other boats that hit the checkmarks on your list that you didn't know about because people here have had them. Also, if you aren't in a rush to buy, give it a while for that kind of feedback, as some members stop by intermittently. The TSBB would be another place to ask, there are owners of both there (or used to be, at least) but, like here, the more specific you can be about what you are looking for, the better recommendations we can give you. :)

[Farseer]

Hey thanks for the welcome.
I'm in no hurry,so I can wait for people to chime in.
Season is about over here so I've got time.

I'm leaning towards these 2 boats due to them being close to me.
The condition and reputation of the Potter 19..plus the boat is darn near in mint condition and equipped very well has me leaning that way.
The Sanibel needs some minor TLC,but again I can't find many reviews on them(on my way to check posters advice above).
Build quality seems to be very good from International Marine,from what I've seen.

So I'll wait and see what turns up.

[Captain Smollett]

I don't think you'd go wrong with either a WWP 19 or a Sanibel.  They are both very well suited for similar types of sailing they are designed for.

I can't say much about the Potter except: (1) I've known people with them over the years and they all really liked the boat and (2) there was at one time a fairly well known story on the 'Net of a Potter that sailed to and cruised the Bahamas.  With the right weather, that sort of thing *is* possible.

As for the Sanibel, I don't know which "model" you are looking at.  The older ones (original Skipper's Mate, Commodore's Mate, Sanibel 17 and original Sanibel 18) are all the exact same hull with some differences in the deck and some differences below.  But, I don't know much about the newer Sanibel 18's made after IM took over production after the couple-decade Hiatus.  It's my understanding that they made some significant changes to the rig, but I can't say for sure; I've not sailed on one or even seen one face-to-face.

This goes directly to your comment about the deck hardware and the like being beefier on the Potter than the Sanibel since it might matter which you are comparing the Potter to.  If the Sanibel 18 you are looking at is one of the older ones, it was a 3-Stay rig (no true backstay, shrouds led farther aft than usual to do double duty as back stays).  The bow cleat is monstrous for a boat this size, but some of the other hardware was much smaller.  I've sailed my boat in boisterous conditions and anchored out a few times; never needed anything bigger.  Stern cleats are okay for tying off a single line, but are a bit small if you need to tie more than one line to a single cleat.  Mast cleats were small, but that's largely due to the fact that my running rigging was oversize.  I've never had any doubts about the strength of the standing rigging.  I broke a spreader once while sailing, but that was my fault in something I did while rigging the boat (I broke or weakened the spreader and did not know it).

Towing: She's about 2000 lb, boat and trailer, but I've never actually weighed to be sure.  I tow with a Gen I Durango mostly, but my wife's Subaru Outback can tow as well.  Towing with the Durango is almost like nothing's back there when on the Interstate; I've gotten as much as 14 mpg highway towing this boat.  She'll launch at pretty much any ramp the bass boats and other small power boaters use, so finding usable ramps is a non-issue.

Rigging and de-rigging the 3-stay rig was not too bad; I can't speak to the rig on the new IM generation Sanibels.  When I was in practice and had my rhythm down with it, I could go about 30 minutes from pulling into the ramp area to hull-wet.  That would include bending on headsail (main is stored on the boom).  Another 5 at dockside stowing gear, lowering rudder and centerboard, getting the ob lowered and ready, etc.  Call it underway from arrival at ramp in under 45 min easily. Of course, with help, you could halve that.

My boat is the original Skipper's Mate version (1982, hull# 29) and just with us, she's been on the gulf coast, the east coast from FL to NC (and inland lakes), and Maine.  All over, we get asked about our "22 foot boat."  She looks HUGE on the trailer, in part because she's very beamy and in part because of the large freeboard.  Internal volume is huge for an 18-footer; could easily sleep 4, plus 2 more in the cockpit if wx permits!

I once had her parked on the trailer next to a Precision 18.  Similar sized boat, right?  NO WAY.  The Sanibel dwarfed that boat.  I might be remembering a slightly exaggerated detail, but I recall the deck of the P18 coming up to about the top of the bottom paint on the Sanibel.  HAHA.  Anyway, in fairness, I once saw that P-18 sail six miles in VERY light, flukey air that had me motoring.  Form follows function.

If you look up her Capsize Screening Ratio it will scare you, but that's because of a combination of beam + light displacement for her Load Water Line.  She's very tender initially so feels "tippy," but she does stiffen up at about 20 degrees of heel.  In other words, the CSR does not take these second order dynamics into account, so I would argue she's a bit "safer" against capsize than the CSR suggests.  Still, she will demand great care to sail on any true open water.  That said, I once was looking at a trip to the Dry Tortugas that did not (yet) pan out, and I would have full confidence to sail her somewhere like that if I had confidence in the weather window.  I have had this boat on the ocean, but never out of sight of land. 

Compared to the Potter 19's hard chined hull, the Sanibel as rounded bilges.  On the bottom, between the turns of the bilge, the hull form looks much like a flat-bottomed boat with a stubby, 4" keel.  This hull shape, and the centerboard, explain her sailing characteristics. The centerboard and rudder are the same, so are interchangeable. This means the centerboard is rather narrow.  Board up, she draws about 12" (some references say 18", but my experience between purposeful beaching and unintentional grounding says 12 is closer to right); board down it's 4 ft.

Sailing: The Sanibel is a VERY fun boat to sail in about 12-18 kts of wind. She screams on a close reach, even for being so "fat." High freeboard means she's drier than most boats her size, too.  She can certainly handle more (see below), but you have get a feel for what she wants and when.  Light air is tricky. It's very easy to stall the keel, and considerably more freeboard at the bow than aft means the wind can really push the bow around if you lose grip on the water. She points "ok" for a boat of her type, but be honest about this type of small cruiser: the Sanibel 18 won't likely win races against almost any boat built in the last 30-40 years.  She's full-on "light displacement trailerable cruiser" and can take you far on many adventures, but not as most contemporary sailors would say "fast."  I have "beaten" other boats upwind, including for example a Catalina 22, but I can't say they knew they were racing.   :D

As for heavy weather handling, the highest winds I've had this boat in was about 32 kt sustained in a squall we got caught in.  That story may be posted here somewhere, but I haven't found it yet.  Once *I* settled down, the boat handled it fine.  It was a real confidence builder...confidence in the boat, I mean.

I've had her out intentionally in sustained winds over 20 kt three times, all on inland waters (not coastal).  Accounts of those stories can be read in chronological order:

(1) http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=1196.msg11039#msg11039

(2) http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=997.msg8828#msg8828

Unfortunately, this one also has a sad element, pointing to the fact that conditions were a bit rough that day.  http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=885.msg8858#msg8858 and follow ups.

(3) A teaching opportunity: http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=2895.msg30975#msg30975 

As they say, most boats can handle more than the skipper/crew; the Sanibel is no exception.

Here's another one of a pretty rough day (but very fun and memorable) overall beating into gusty conditions (15 kt-ish sustained, gusts 20 kt or so).

http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=3753.msg43822#msg43822

If you have any specific questions, please let me know.  I'll answer if I can.

And I'll repeat: I can't bash the WWP-19 or rec the Sanibel over the Potter for any reason I can think of. I firmly believe both boats make excellent trailerable cruisers in this size range.  The Potter is more well known; the Sanibel has a very loyal, but much smaller, following.

[Farseer]

Thanks for in depth info..very helpful Captain Smollett.
The only difference I see in the Sanibel 18 by IM is it has a back stay and the hardware is beefier.
Boat is very well made and looks a lot bigger than 18 feet.