Looking for a Boat

[wolverine]

Since moving to Oriental, NC my wife has me looking for a larger boat.  We currently sail a Compac 19/II and she wants something with standing headroom and a proper head.  There are some limitations however. 
#1.  I will be doing all the docking singlehanded so nothing over 30'.   
#2.  We only have 4' of water at our dock. 
#3.  The mast needs to clear a 45' bridge.
#4.  Wheel steering.  (my wife has difficulties steering with a tiller.
#5.  Encapsulated keel rather than bolt on.
#6.  I'd like to keep the price around $15K, but if the right boat presents
       itself, I'll go $20-$22k
#7.  A tight turning radius is a plus.

So far I'm looking at the Compac 27, Watkins 27, and Bayfield 29.
The Compac has everything we like and need.  I've read the Watkins doesn't have an anchor locker so that's a minus.  The Bayfield is nice, but it has a full keel which makes turning difficult, and I cannot find any data on the mast to water height. 

I don't mind traveling to inspect a boat, but it would need to be on the east or gulf coast so I can sail it home.  I'm open to all suggestions.

Thanks, Carl

[Frank]

After cruising on one for 4 seasons, the Compac is a good choice in that price range. Easy to dock, sail and anchor solo.

[Godot]

I measured my Bayfield mast a few years ago, but I  don't remember what the magic number was. I believe it was right around 40'. If I get to the boat in the next few days I'll send a tape measure back up the mast.

Seeker is tiller steered. I understand that most of the Bayfields came with wheels. Looking at how the wheel would have to be located, though, it seems to me that the skipper would be in frequent contention with the mainsheet. I would hate to accidentally jibe. I suspect it is also tougher to handle all the lines while single handed (remember...the Bayfield 29 is a cutter so there are twice as many foresail sheets to worry about). It's also worth noting that the cockpit isn't all that large.

The boat does track reasonably, and also really doesn't have all that large a turn radius. Under power, she will turn to port in her own length, almost pivoting in place. Not quite as good to starboard. Under sail she comes about smartly. There's hardly any point to trying to steer in reverse. Until she gets up to, I don't know, maybe three knots, steering is mostly just a gentle suggestion to the boat. She's gonna go where she wants to go. The joy of full keels. This can make maneuvering in tight quarters something of a challenge. Over the years I've learned to deal with it and it isn't too much of a problem. I do generally warp my boat into my slip (I back in), though, even single handed.

Because the forestay and staysail stay are rather close together, a certain technique is necessary in order for the yankee to come through the slot properly. Basically, when you tack do not release the staysail sheet, and instead allow it to backwind forming a scoop for the yankee to slide through. As a bonus, this makes the boat tack faster. I don't recommend sailing with just the yankee as it is real difficult to get it through the slot during a tack without the staysail. If only one headsail is called for I usually use the staysail, or plan on rolling in the yankee when coming about (which then sometimes results in being in irons).

The boat likes to sail fairly flat, and generally speaking is quite comfortable. Downwind with a broadside sea, however, will result in a most unpleasant roll. Cockpit ergonomics leave something to be desired. The cabin is quite high (or perhaps the cockpit is too deep) and it can be difficult to see where you are going while seated. I stack up a few of those tossable blue boat cushions.  I do have custom cockpit cushions which are coming to end of life. I'm thinking of making new cushions of much thicker foam.

The head is large and all the way in the bow where a v-berth would normally be. I think this is a great place for it in a boat this size as it seems to make the cabin much larger and more livable, although perhaps not the best place to do business when sailing in weather that is up a bit. Personally, even then, I haven't had much trouble, though. I think squeezing separate sleeping cabins in to small boats is better in theory than practice, and think more small boats would be more comfortable with the head forward solution.

One of my early complaints involves motorsailing. On a port tack everything is fine. On a starboard tack, it doesn't take much heel to lift the water intake out of the water. This resulted in me overheating the engine several times until I realized what was going on. Nowadays I don't motorsail on a starboard tack in anything but the slightest breeze.

For what it's worth, this boat does like a bit of wind. I mean, she'll move in just a whisper of a breeze. Barely. But Catalinas and Hunters and similar boats will sail circles around her. If the breeze gets up above ten or twelve knots she is quite happy hitting hull speed perhaps around 15, depending on point of sail. If the wind gets into the twenties she'll be happy on the water when most of the lighter boats have called it a day. I've sailed in 30s a fair bit, although I try to avoid it as it is only fun for a short while and I'm getting a little nervous of my 40 year old standing rigging (on the to-do list). I sailed in around 40 knots of wind once, but the boat wouldn't really balance and it was tough to keep under control so I dropped sail and just motored into a safe harbor, although even that was difficult as the motor is pretty small. Downwind with just the staysail might have worked OK. Better yet is to just heave to if the wind suddenly picks up.

I did get caught in a serious thunderstorm once with scary high wind gusts (there was fairly significant damage on shore). I hove to with a double reefed main and rode it out in reasonable comfort. Unfortunately, I didn't tie up the loose body of the sail. I had always heard that this was mostly a housekeeping thing to keep things neat, and generally isn't necessary. Unfortunately, I found out, at least on my boat, that the baggy belly of a reefed mainsail can hold a LOT of water. It did break a few battens. And it was difficult to empty of water.

[wolverine]

Thanks for the responses.  I'm finding it somewhat frustrating locating mast to DWL dimensions for many of the boats I'd like to view.  Sailboatdata.com isn't any help.  I've scoured owners forums, but can't ask questions without joining and I don't do FB.  I found a boat we're interested in and it's only 4 hours away, but again no mast height listed.  After contacting the broker, she is trying to locate a recent survey.  Another broker simply stated he has never seen a 27'r that wouldn't clear a 45' bridge.  Yea, I'm going to drive 12 1/2 hours for that one.

What's with all the secrecy when it comes to bridge clearances?  This is vital information a lot of sailors need before purchasing a boat. 

[CharlieJ]

Damned question- wish I had the answer

[Norman]

Mast height and water draft is not an easy question, and the reliable answer will not be in a general data base.

As an example, my Neptune came with a choice of two different mast heights in the catalog, but my mast was taller than either.  Why?  I nave no idea, but the mast was installed at the factory and not changed by the original owner.  It was not a special order by the original owner, he just went to the factory, and bought it.  I was the second owner.  The difference in mast heights of that little 16 foot boat was 3 feet!  Multiply by 2 to make it a 32 footer, and a difference of 6 feet in air draft.

My current MacGregor has a Catalina mast to replace the broken Mac mast it had when I bought it, so my air draft is different from the 'book' value.

Catalina had many models with 'tall rig' options, and I am sure that many other brands did too.  The only safe way to know the air draft is to hoist a tape measure up the mast, and add the distance down to the water.

I have approached a bridge with a known mast air draft, and less than the required clearance to go under, shifted everything moveable to one side, hiked out, and very slowly snuck up under power.  The owner watched the masthead with binoculars as the antenna end touched, concluded that the wind indicator was safe, ordered the helmswoman to put the engine in gear, and we scratched the underside of the beams as we went through.  The helmswoman was the smallest of the crew, the owner was one of the larger, so he was hiking out.

Large water bags slung out with a whisker pole or spinnaker pole to keep them out can be used to reduce air draft in marginal cases.

[wolverine]

I spoke with the broker this morning.  She contacted the owners and they had already measured the way you describe.  Then they added 3' for the antenna.  At 42' with the antenna, it will still have 3' of clearance.  We don't have a moon tide, we do have a wind tide though.  As for hiking out to clear a bridge, that's not a possibility here.  The wife has disabilities and I'm barely 175lbs.  Plus it's not something I'm willing to do every time we want to go sailing.

I have an appointment to view the boat this Sunday.  I'll post how it goes.

[Bubba the Pirate]

Thanks, Godot for your thoughts pn the B29. I can't wait to use mine more! Should launch in September.

Mine has the wheel. I've motorsailed about 65 miles - only, but I can tell you that the wheel is in the way until you get used to it. I sat next to it more often than behind. However, when behind the wheel, I went up and over the cockpit bench. Around the side of the wheel is not possible for a guy my size.