LED NAV and Anchor lights, Bebi and others discussion....

[Captain Smollett]

It is pretty common in most night-time boating accidents for the lawyers to have expert testimony on the lighting.

Testimony on lighting is FAR different from certification/non-certification being the deciding issue.

If it is so common, why did legal search an actual attorney did not turn up ONE SINGLE CASE where certification of an anchor light was the basis for liability in a court ruling?

  This was the case in the Clear Lake trial in California

Straw man.,..the issue in Clear Lake was whether or not the lights were ON at the time of collision, not whether or not they were 'certified.'  And, they were not anchor lights, but running lights.

the lighting was all USCG certified, so there was little the defense could do about it... but if the lighting had not been USCG certified, I am pretty sure things would have turned out quite differently.

Now I know you can see the problem with this point.  "It was not an issue, but if it had been an issue, it would have been an issue."  This is a good classic example of a "Begging the Question" Fallacy.

I'm sorry, Dan, I do NOT mean to be argumentative, but just because you are pretty sure things would have turned out differently had the lights in those three cases (which three? Can I read the court documents on those cases to see what the issues WERE?) if the lights had not been certified does not make it so.

The fact is that we have yet to uncover an actual case where either a judge or a jury decided a case on the basis of Coast Guard Certification of an anchor light.  That does not mean one does not exist, nor does it mean that it won't happen tomorrow, and you may rightly argue "do you want to be the test case by not using a certified light?"

There HAVE been cases where a major point was VISIBILITY of an anchor light, but even then, I don't think any mention of certification was raised (just because a boat uses a certified light, this fact alone does not mean it was VISIBLE, for a variety of possible reasons).

I'm saying "I don't think" here because I am going on memory of having read some actual case histories back in February when we discussed this last time.

[Frank]

I'd like to thank CJ for his report of the Bebi Owl light. Sounds like it works great and the coastguard were impressed. Good enough for me  ;)

[LooseMoose]

We have Bebi lights on So It Goes and more often than not we are the brightest anchor light in the anchorage. We also have their tricolor... Over four years of daily use and it still shines bright! Excellent stuff.

Sadly USCG cert does not allow much for change for the better... Our European cousins have had self righting life jackets for twenty years while the long, expensive and short sighted USCG process makes it too expensive for companies to introduce new and better ways of doing things. Like many cruisers we know we have a full set of USCG approved life jackets which stay in a bag and use the non approved but much better European stuff.

As far as lawyers go... Shakespeare was right! It does not matter if your lights are legal, if you have n anchor ball showing the guy in the Donzi who is drunk can win providing he has deeper pockets than you do. Best thing is to avoid situations where you need lawyers entirely!


Bob
http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
http://islandgourmand.blogspot.com/

[Grime]

A friend and I have been having this discussion for some time. He feels that it has to be USCG approved. His anchor light is 60' above the deck. Power boaters will never see it. Their mind is on the next fishing ground and the beer in the cooler.

My next purchase will be the Bebi Owl. I have all my nav light LED now at a very reasonable price. Way brighter than the USCG approved bulbs and less power draw.

[s/v Faith]

Back in 2005 when I started this thread and ordered my Bebi Electronics anchor light, I planned to put it atop the mast.

  Over our cruise, I used it every night.  In anchorages where I anticipated being harassed I switched my old style light on too (often only for the first few hours, the likely boarding time for light checks).

  Never got any attention from the authorities.

Since we know the regular mast top anchor lights are not well seen, and lights mounted in the foretrangle, or even over the boom are much more likely to be seen by other boats close enough to matter.

  My plan is just to continue using the Bibi in the cockpit, and leave the old one up on the stick as a backup and to humor the authorities as necessary.

[Auspicious]

My plan is just to continue using the Bibi in the cockpit, and leave the old one up on the stick as a backup and to humor the authorities as necessary.

I agree with Craig. I turn on my masthead anchor light because it is the right thing to do and also hang one or two Davis mega-lights in the cockpit - usually one from the aft edge of the dodger (nice light in the cockpit) and one from my radar pole aft (nice lighting for the stern steps).

[atomvoyager]

I've been looking for this for a long time and just found it - a LED replacement bulb for the Davis anchor light:

http://www.marinebeam.com/dameledre.html

With the auto-darkness sensor that turns it on and off, now it should be bright and little power consumption.

James Baldwin

[CapnK]

James -

Those work good, I ordered one for a client and so have seen them in action. Big improvement over the hack I made to my Davis a couple years back in order to have the same capability. :)

Marinebeam is located just a couple hours away, near where Capt. Smollett used to live, IIRC. Based on first hand knowledge with the above mentioned client, I can vouch for them being helpful and responsive to customers, and knowledgeable about their products.

[s/v Copacetic]

I just found a site with a really good selection of low voltage LED replacement bulbs and even some fixtures (interior) that might be of use.

Does anyone have experience with www.ledlight.com ?

[CapnK]

Nice job! Grog! ;D

[skylark]

I just finished making my own LED light

Can you give us a little more information on how you built those lights?

[skylark]

What kind of leds did you use?  Where did you get them?

[boblamb]

Getting ready to order a Bebi OWL with photocell (http://www.bebi-electronics.com/owl.html ) for an anchor light on my little ship.  Being "electronically illiterate" I need help in determining what size solar panel to use for this light only  ????  
 
Any and all help appreciated!
Bob
CP23d

ps: I have read all the threads on this light at Sailfar...great site we have here, eh?

[s/v Faith]

Getting ready to order a Bebi OWL with photocell (http://www.bebi-electronics.com/owl.html ) for an anchor light on my little ship.  Being "electronically illiterate" I need help in determining what size solar panel to use for this light only  ????  
 
Any and all help appreciated!
Bob
CP23d

ps: I have read all the threads on this light at Sailfar...great site we have here, eh?

  They are great lights, and I think you will be very happy with it.

So, as I understand it you are going to set up a panel to charge a battery just for your anchor light?

  If so, you would be fine with a very small battery, and a very small pannel.  The Owl by it's self draws less then a 100ma (IIRC) according to my Link battery monitor.

  Setting up a power system (even this simple) requires an energy budget.  This one is pretty easy.

Let's say that I am wrong, and it draws 200ma. (.2amps).  Is the winter it is likely to be on 12 hours a day in the winter... so that would be 12 x .2 = 1.4 amp hours.   This is your load.

Now, let's say that you really want to be conservative and plan for not having sun for 5 days....  To figure your storage capacity you need to multiply 5 x 1.4  = 7 amp hours.  Youl never want to plan to discharge your storage system by more then 50% so you are looking for a battery of a minimum of 14amp hours capacity.

  You also need to charge this battery.  Opinions on all of this vary, but the minimum capacity would be the ability to replace one night's use in one day.  That would be 1.4amp hours... and generally in the winter (time of max load) you are only going to see a couple hours of maximum charge... so you would really want to be able to replace the night's use in a couple hours... so let's say you need .7amps of current.

  P=IE, most panels are rated in Wats 5w /12v x .4 (well, really you use 17v, so let's call it .3a)....  .3x2 is not .7, but it is pretty close.

  So, a panel of an honest 5watts, and a battery of at least 14 amp hours...

Here is one panel for $75.  Here is another for $49.

  Here is a battery that would work.

Really though, you can do better.  Go to a lawn and garden center and ask for a 'U-1' garden tractor battery.  They run around $20, and about 30 amp hours...

[s/v Faith]

U-1 Tractor battery for $26 at Advance Auto.

[boblamb]

Thanks mates;
  My plan is to put my boat on a mooring for a while...and I'd want to replace one night's use of the light each day via solar panel.
  I can swing the tractor battery, but wonder if the twin 12v batteries I already have on board would do the same thing with a 5 watt solar panel on them?

Appreciate the feedback
Bob

[s/v Faith]

Thanks mates;
  My plan is to put my boat on a mooring for a while...and I'd want to replace one night's use of the light each day via solar panel.
  I can swing the tractor battery, but wonder if the twin 12v batteries I already have on board would do the same thing with a 5 watt solar panel on them?

Appreciate the feedback
Bob

Yes, they would work fine.  I was ASSuming you were taking about a 'from scratch' system.

  Having the 5w panel would be a good thing for the batteries anyway, as they will typically discharge just from sitting.

  With a dual battery system, what are your other loads?  How are the batteries configured? (I assume they are connected in parallel?  (both sets of terminals linked together as sets).

[boblamb]

I do have 2 12v parallel batteries.  I have the basic navigation lights, a bilge pump that works mainly when my little Yanmar is running and the stuffing box is dripping.  And that's the main electrical on my Compac.

Thanks
Bob

[s/v Faith]

I do have 2 12v parallel batteries.  I have the basic navigation lights, a bilge pump that works mainly when my little Yanmar is running and the stuffing box is dripping.  And that's the main electrical on my Compac.

Thanks
Bob

  Your system would benefit from a 5w panel.  You will not need a charge controller, as a 5w or 10w panel will not be able to overcharge your batteries.  Given that the bilge pump may cycle a couple times after you shut the motor down you may want to consider a slightly larger panel like 10 or 15 watts (which would also help re-charge your batteries when you return from a night sail with nav lights that does not include much motoring).

[s/v Faith]

This site has some good prices on 5 - 10w panels.

Kyocera panels have an excellent reputation (I have a 135w  Kyocera panel pending installation) and BP also makes a very good product.


http://www.altestore.com/store/Solar-Panels/1-to-50-Watt-Solar-Panels/Kyocera-KS10-10W-12V-Solar-Panel/p6649/