What to do about Water? tankage, requirements, watermakers.... etc.

[oded kishony]

>I keep 'just' missing some flexable bladders on Ebay.<

http://www.bidnapper.com/

or google 'snipe' for other, similar, programs that help you bid.

Oded

[sailor]

What is the consensus about the use of watermakers?

Dave & Mandy on their Little Cruiser (14') used Survivor 35, most of their Bahamas trips:
http://www.microcruising.com/reviewb.htm

[AdriftAtSea]

cool site... thanks for the link.  :D

[CapnK]

cool site... thanks for the link.  :D

Ditto that, + a Grog for sailor.  ;D

[Godot]

I've had this plan to build a new sailboat for some time.  Of course, I don't have the space to build, so I've really only been working on it in my mind.

But I've been thinking for some time that perhaps the best tankage solution is to not have any tanks at all.  Instead, I considered that a very decent solution would be to just grab a bunch of 3-6 gallon water jerry jugs that would be slid, as necessary, into a recess by the sink and have a water line dropped in them from the pump. 

Advantage: if it is necessary to fill up away from the dock, you can dinghy the jugs to shore and not worry about transferring the water to the permanent tank.

Advantage: The jugs can be moved about the boat as necessary for trim.

Advantage: On long trips it will be easier to manage usage.

Advantage: Cleaning the jugs, flushing them, emptying them for winter storage (pumping out a 20 gallon tank with a little galley flipper pump takes a long time), and replacing when necessary is easier.

Advantage: When staying close to home, it isn't necessary to keep as much tankage on-board.  Alternately, if a longer than typical trip is planned it isn't as much trouble to add  capacity.

Advantage: If one jug was broken there is lots of redundancy.

Advantage: If it is necessary to take on water from questionable sources, that water can remain isolated from the majority and either treated or held on to for emergency use only.

Disadvantage: If a lot of time is spent at dock, it is not as convenient to top off the tanks.

Disadvantage: If you are right in the middle of cooking (or doing anything, really) and you need some water when a jug runs out, it will be necessary to swap jugs first which could lead to a ruined meal, or greasy handprints all over the boat.

The last Disadvantage might be alleviated somewhat if there was room for two jugs side by side to that when one runs out it will be quick and easy to switch to the second.

If it works, here is a picture of something that might work.



Here's a four gallon jug that looks tougher:

[oded kishony]

I share your fantasy of building a boat.  :)  The reality is that buying a used boat is far more efficient if not quite as satisfying.

An important consideration to using small containers is to have a very reliable, safe method of securing them.

Oded

[AdriftAtSea]

I'd second Oded, and emphasize that a 2-1/2 gallon bottle of water weighs about 20 lbs., and would be a lethal projectile in a knockdown or rollover.

[Godot]

Building your own boat may not be the most efficient method of getting on the water.  It might not even be the most economical.  But it is one way of ensuring you get what you want.  In the end, though, the whole point to building is that you like to build boats.  I've got two smaller boats under my belt, and someday I'll get the bigger (but not too big) third.  In the meantime I sail my Seafarer 24 (which needs enough work to keep me busy for awhile).

As to securely storing the water jugs, I'd like to think that it shouldn't be necessary to point that out.  Anyone considering any serious passages I would hope would have everything of any mass well secured.  If I where to build a new boat (or seriously modify one) then secure storage space for water jugs would have to take on the same importance as secure storage of regular tanks (or anchors, or canned food, or anything of any substance).  Taking it a little further, most long distance sailors I'm aware of keep at least a couple jerry jugs available for emergency rations, so secure storage has already been worked out, at least to some degree.

Anyhow, the desirability of this method (at least to me, if no one else) was underscored this year when I was preparing for a one week cruise and found the water in the tank (which I had filled up several weeks earlier) had a bad odor.  So I flushed the tank using that silly little hand operated flipper pump.  It took forever.  Then I mixed a little bleach in with the water, agitated it by sailing for a few hours, and drained it again.  Fill with fresh water, and drain again.  The water finally seemed much better.  But then I noticed the supply hose, originally clear, was now a dark brown.  It may be safe (I hope), but it was unappealing, so I changed that out.  During this process it occurred to me that I rarely need to have 20 gallons on-board with my current sailing habits (small boat, but not yet sailing far); but once or twice a year longer trips would make it desireable.  Smaller containers then make sense.   Then I thought about my dreams of some longer term voyaging and it still seemed to make sense.  Actually, even now that I've thought about it more, I'm not sure why this isn't a more common method of water storage on small boats.

[AdriftAtSea]

I think the main reason it isn't more common is convenience and simplicity.  It is far simpler to get a hose and fill a deck fill pipe or two to fill one or two large tanks than it is to have to fill fifteen smaller tanks.  It is also easier to clean and maintain one or two large tanks than it is to clean and maintain 15 smaller portable tanks.  Finally, using the water from a large built-in tank is far simpler than it is to do from many smaller tanks, as you have pointed out above. 

In terms of self-sufficiency, especially for a small boat sailor in foreign waters, where getting known good sources of water is more of an issue, the smaller tanks may make a lot more sense, since filling with a questionable water source would only contaminate the tanks filled, and not the ones previously filled elsewhere.

[castawaysailor]

I have four 5 gal flexible jugs sold in camping stores; this with my 40 gal install in the boat should do me for most crossings.

[s/v Faith]

Godot,

  I think the idea of using the same jugs to transport and to store water in is a good one.  Especially well suited for a small boat. _{Grog on me!}

  One point I might add to your list of 'advantages' is that you would no longer have to store jerry jugs to transport water in.  I really like any idea that gives more then one purpose to an item, and if you can gain utility.... and safety..... at the same time.....

  It's a no-brainer as far as I am concerned ;D

just one of the many things you can do when you are designing your own purpose built boat rather then one mass produced.  Much easier to build in an idea like that then try to retrofit it.

[AdriftAtSea]

I prefer the 2-1/2 gallon or 3 gallon jugs instead.  They're easier to carry and easier to store.  :D

[CapnK]

I've been thinking kind of like godot. Although using several small bladders, instead of several small hard canisters (I already have 2 of the 4 gal blue ones, for hurricane bugouts). The space I have decided is to be for water is that odd long triangular area under the settees.

Right now, I'm thinking 4 of the small Plastimo bladders, which would give me 52 gallons in 4 separate containers. The bladders will work for me because of the shape of the space; if I had my druthers, I'd rather use a sub-$10 hard container, but I think that this is one place I am going to go with a commercial 'marine' product.

[s/v Faith]

Faith continues to evolve as we make our way down the coast.

Our water stowage started out as the original tank forward, and 4, 6.5gallon jerry jugs. (and plans to add 2 more before we cross to the islands) that we keep in the bottom of the cockpit lockers. Those cans are really hard to get out, and use most of the lockers. THe ~39 gallons of water will be very handy when going to explore the Exumas but doesn't stow very well and the cans when full are very hard to lift out of the locker (I had hernia surgery about 8 weeks ago so I am trying to take it easy).  :P


We only use storage under the starboard settee for 'emergency' bottled water, which again does not utilize it very well.  I counted the .5 liter bottles as I took them out, and we had 135 of them in there...  :o

I looked at at the Plastimo 39 gallon water bladder with a fill in the cockpit and a 'y' valve on the original 1/2" hose leading from the original tank forward.
It is 27" x 55" and comes with a 1 1/2" fill barb and a 1/2" supply barb.

From the Plastimo site;

Plastimo flexible water tanks - consist of a welded non-porous tasteless PVC water chamber (inner bladder) inside a tough nylon envelope, for complete watertightness and resistance to tearing and abrasion.
Separate chambers allow the water tanks the flexibility to adapt their shape during heavy pitching, and to remain rigid enough not to burst under pressure.
The inner bladder is slightly oversized allowing pressure of water in tank to be exerted on the outter envelope not the inner bladder.
1 1/2 inlet and outlet fittings included. This model: capacity - 39.6 gal.

  I saw this tank on Dan's ' Psyche' Coumbia 8.7 and was impressed with the construction.  His installation is great (like all of the mods I saw on that boat!) ;D

I knew it would not fill to it's full capacity (it is too thick for the space full). I know I would be adding something like ~250# of water.... about like an extra large crew member sleeping in the starbord settee....  but would be removing the same weight that would have been carried slightly more aft in the cockpit lockers (not to mention the bottles of water that it will replace.

As it was I had an entire day spent in a marina to make the tank work... but it is in place now.

I went with the Plastimo 39gallon bladder I posted about above, and mounted it under the starboard settee.

The space has the natural 'bladder friendly' curve of the hull already except for the bottom edge where there could potentially be a crease.

I drilled 4 pair of holes in the setee to lash the corners to, but none of the lashings have any weight on them (unless the boat is pitching at some strange angle.)

I then drilled a 2.1/8" hole in the aft end of the bulkhead to pass the fill hose to, and a 7/8" for the 1/2" tap hose.

I installed a stainless deck fill in the vertical starboard side of the cockpit. I did not install it on the horizontal surface so it will neither be a lump to sit on, nor will it be as likely to collect salt water around the edge (minor detail I know...).

I ran the supply line to a diverter valve under the sink where I can draw the water from either the forward tank (18 gallon?) or the new 39 gallon tank (although It does not have the full 9" of vertical clearance across it's surface while in the locker so I doubt it is filling to the entire 39 gallons but I estimate it is between 32 and 35 gallons (guess).

I filled it till water ran out of the fill once it was installed and noticed a very slight list to starboard, less then I get when someone sits on only one side of the cockpit. I think it is acceptable, and I got my cockpit lockers back although we will keep 2 of the lage cans (empty) to carry water out to the boat in the dink when at anchor)

I will post more on this as it is used, but my initial impression is that it is going to work out well.  ;D

[AdriftAtSea]

S/V Godot/CapnK.—

Do either of you have a good source for the 4 gallon blue containers that are in s/v Godot's post above.

[s/v Faith]

S/V Godot/CapnK.—

Do either of you have a good source for the 4 gallon blue containers that are in s/v Godot's post above.

Dan,

  Found a couple of hits,Bass Pro Shop seems to be about the best price ($10.99) from a known source.... they have the 4 gal and the 7 gal.

  Google 'reliance aqua-tainer 4 gallon' for more options.

[AdriftAtSea]

Thanks for the link... I'm ordering a couple today. :D

[s/v Faith]

The tankage aboard Faith is working out very well.  Rose, Peter, and I do not use much water, so the 40 gal bladder, the factory tank (~12 gallons I am learning) and a back up 6.5 gallon jug are doing quite well for us. 

  All we drink comes from these tanks, I have my glass of wine in the evening but there is no other 'supplemental' sources like soda or juice (too heavy, and expensive).  Last time we topped off the tank we were surprised to learn that we had only used 12 gallons in 9 days. 

 

[Lynx]

I am using about 2 gals a day with shore showers. You 2 have it dowm better than me but I am taking it easy.

[s/v Faith]

I am using about 2 gals a day with shore showers. You 2 have it dowm better than me but I am taking it easy.

  Water was much cheaper and easier to come by in the abacos, I wish I could get a few gallons of RO water right now...