What to do about Water? tankage, requirements, watermakers.... etc.

[CharlieJ]

The jug system would be fine IF you have the space to store 4 or 5 five gallon jugs. But then, why not just have a fixed tank in that space? Save the trouble.

Also on Tehani we try to keep that bow tank full because the boat sails better that way. I wouldn't do away with yours til I found out about how it balances with it empty.

[Godot]

My water system is in place and functional, so I'm certainly not changing it.  The boat sails fine with full or empty tanks (I don't even notice the difference), although I've often thought she seems designed to have the extra weight of an inboard engine aft; which is where the jugs would be stored.  I have no objection to the normal tank method; but it seems that it really is designed to make living on boats (even if just for an afternoon) more like being in a house than any other reason.  Which is not a bad thing; it's just something that doesn't enter my decision process.  If I was building my next boat as originally planned, I believe I'd do the jug thing; although I'm a fickle creature so it is hard to tell.

Some of the advantages to the jug method is the elimination of plumbing, shear simplicity, the ability to change tankage by mission, the possibility of moving the jugs to balance the boat, the protection against contamination and loss by having multiple self contained water vessels, the forced awareness of water usage, easy replacement when damaged, convenient to grab if it becomes necessary to abandon ship (I'm naturally assuming we aren't in the middle of Chesapeake Bay in this scenario  :)), and, if the normal method of filling the tanks happens to be by jugs, because it saves effort transferring.  It appeals to me, although likely I'm not typical.  On my Weekender I used to have a pair of 3 gallon water jugs that did me just fine.

In skylarks case, I'm guessing we are talking about keeping water on the 16' foot junk he is building, which pretty much changes the rules from the boats most of us have.

Oh, for what it's worth, as a single hander, not really worrying too much about water usage, I had probably a third tank (6 or 7 gallons I guess) of water at the end of my last ten day trip.  But it was in September, not the middle of an oppressive Maryland summer.

[Godot]

I have never heard anyone say they had too much water capacity.

I have.  But, we were talking very small boats (sub 20 feet).

[s/v Faith]

I went ahead and merged this into an existing thread on water stowage.

Lots of good info in the thread on various approaches to the issue, worth a read from the beginning.  ;)

FWIW,

  Faith carries 15 gallons forward in one (OEM, Monel) tank, 19 gallons (40l) under the port settee in a Plastimo bladder, and another 12-18 gallons in the stbd cockpit locker when needed.   System works out well for us, and allows appropriate segregation to prevent contamination....

[skylark]

My point of reference is my Tanzer 28, right now I have about 5 three gallon jugs, and would like to get set up for a month or more.  My need for water needs to be tempered by the fact that I sail on Lake Michigan, which is the source of drinking water for our town.  I have a backpacking water filter and can filter Lake water for drinking water. 

It sounds like 40 gallons in two seperate bladders would be a good amount as a goal.  I have an old Whale foot pump but it seems to be past the point of rebuilding.

Do bladders require a vent?

What type of tubing do you use?

[CharlieJ]

No, bladders do not require vents.

We usethe plastic hose Qin them cross-crossed threads inside. Works well.

Sometimes it is a tight fit but putting the end in hot water will soften it so it'll slip on.

[excavman]

My Chrysler didn't have anything in the way of a fresh water system when I bought her. I went on the internet and purchased a 16 Gallon RV type tank from a surplus outfit in Elkhart, IN where they built a lot of campers and motorhomes. It was forty dollars with shipping, they had several sizes to choose from. I installed it under the port cockpit locker as far forward as I could and plumbed it with a 12 volt RV demand pump and plastic pipe to the galley sink. I also put my generator and marine batteries on the opposite side to counter the weight. I think my total investment in the water system is less than $150. I also plan to carry several plastic jugs for backup.

Larry

[s/v Faith]

My Chrysler didn't have anything in the way of a fresh water system when I bought her. I went on the internet and purchased a 16 Gallon RV type tank from a surplus outfit in Elkhart, IN where they built a lot of campers and motorhomes. It was forty dollars with shipping, they had several sizes to choose from. I installed it under the port cockpit locker as far forward as I could and plumbed it with a 12 volt RV demand pump and plastic pipe to the galley sink. I also put my generator and marine batteries on the opposite side to counter the weight. I think my total investment in the water system is less than $150. I also plan to carry several plastic jugs for backup.

Larry

Larry,

  Sounds like a very good system for your boat.  I recall just how weight sensitive your boat can be.  (I briefly had a C-22, you may have seen my posts on the C-22 forum).   16 gallons is probably about right for the trip you propose,
the southern Tenn-Tom (from what I have researched) can preclude access to replenish supplies for as long as a week at a time.  I know from my own experience that your water can last 2 weeks (especially as supplemented with canned / bottled beverages).

  What was the tank you purchased made of?  Food grade plastic is good stuff, make sure you don't let the water sit long enough to get 'stale' as it may be tough to get a stale taste out of it later.

  How much stowage did you loose with this tank?  IIRC, most of the sizable stowage space (dry) on your boat is under the 'v' berth.

  Glad you are here, and I greatly look forward to hearing all about your trip.  ;D

[excavman]

The tank is made of the same white plastic as my RV fresh water tank but I wasn't planning on drinking out of it, use it for washing body parts and dished. I have a good spot where I can carry six gallon jugs of drinking water right behind my 50qt. cooler/ice box behind the companionway steps. The tank is only about 30 in long 15 high and 12 wide. I set it low in the hull right up against the side of the cockpit floor. My boat has that heavy fixed wing keel so it won't be as sensitive to lateral loading changes as a swing keel boat. I also may put a couple of those collapsible 5 gallon jugs under the v-berth.

Larry

[s/v Faith]

I bet she is a good Sailor.  People underestimate those boats (maybe thinking Chrysler was not well suited to make sailboats).  I always liked them and bet the fixed keel is a nice boat to sail.

Just out of curiosity, why do not not intend to drink from the main tank?  I know many feel this way, I drink from my 1964 Ariel's tank and have found that most water is drinkable if flushed regularly (to keep fresh)and run through a britta filter.

[Mr. Fixit]

Water has been my main problem abord BrendaJ-I have a factory installed tank under port settee,plumbed to sink (foot Pump) I have 5 rectangular plastic containers (may be 7 gal ea.) that have a spigot that is part of the cap. I use these for cooking,drinking. Tank water is used for washing dishes etc.. I store the jugs on the port settee upright with strapping thru the handles, the jug i am using is horizontal the spigot makes it easy to tap water, and another strap is used thru the handle to keep it on the settee. I have decided to cut down on the tools i carry sea and use the space under the starboard settee for more water. The 7 gal jugs are kind of heavy filled so i use a folding 2 wheeled cart to go for water if necessary. I must learn to use less water. I have an electric pump connected to sea water for general cleaning,plumbed to sink with enough hose under sink to wash down cockpit--water, water everywhere-------------------

[Captain Smollett]

I must learn to use less water.

No matter how much water you carry, if you waste it, it will never be enough.  Even at the marina with city water readily available, we practice our daily conservation and water discipline.  I find it is easier to always be in a conservation mode rather than trying to shift gears when the need arises.

One thirty gallon tank lasts us 6 weeks - cooking, light cleaning, all dish washing some drinking (morning coffee, tea, hot chocolate, etc).  This is not our main consumption source right now.  For that, we supplement with jugs, etc.

I'll be adding a 28 or so gallon water tank under the cockpit.

I recently had the following exchange on another forum (which I'll edit to make shorter); it started talking about propane use:

Him: A 20 lb propane cylinder lasts us 30 days; that's 4 people aboard.
Me: A 10 lb propane cylinder lasts us 90 days for 4 people aboard.

Him: You are not having unlimited hot water for dishes and showers!  We have 120 gallon tank that lasts 7-10 days.
Me: Right; we have 30 gallon tank that generally lasts about 40 days.

I love this exchange because it so nicely illustrates the "waste spiral" that is part of what the SailFar, KISS approach rejects.  In using "unlimited water" to wash dishes, essentially running all that fresh water right out the through-hull, he's also accepting the waste of the propane it took to initially heat it.  And where I'd put a 120 gallon tank on this boat I have no idea...

We have used a 2 gallon pump-up garden sprayer for showers.  My daughter and I get a comfortable shower with water left over...we could probably stretch it into three showers per 2 gallons.  I have a (land based) friend who was experimenting with this at his home last summer, and he reported "no loss of comfort" among he or family members that were showering this way.

The difference is, I think, an "always on" vs "rarely on" shower "head."  The same thing with washing dishes.  Another liveaboard couple here goes through a 50 gallon fresh water tankful every 2-3 days because, as the hubby reports, the wife washes dishes with the faucet wide open the whole time.

???

I've gotten our dish washing system (which also uses a pump up sprayer for rinsing), and stuff like water for coffee, grits, oatmeal, etc down to the number of pumps I need...with very little waste (in heating the water up).  Washing dishes typically uses 1/2 gallon ish water per day (1-2 meals for 3-4 people each).

In the summer, I use a sun shower to heat the water in the sun, but pour it into the sink (for washing) and pump sprayer (for rinsing).  The two gallon sun shower we have lasts 3-4 days of doing dishes.

Also, back to showering, 'sponge baths' for daily clean-up (or as has been suggested here on sailfar previously, the 'three baby wipe' bath is pretty cool), with the pump-up sprayer based shower a couple of times per week...

In other words, water lasts a LOOOOONG time when you take some relatively minor steps to NOT waste it.

(Admittedly, we do luxuriate under the marina shower while we are here...but we've been "out" and used the 'primitive' systems mentioned above, too).

[excavman]

After years of traveling around in a motorhome I got used to not using the tank water for drinking. Up north (Arkansas) we winterized the system with that RV antifreeze and when you flush it in the spring it takes forever to get all that nasty stuff out. Just easier to use jugs and conserve. Those habits will transfer over to sailing I have no doubt.

Larry

[skylark]

What are the best kind of jugs to carry?  I have 5 gallon squarish jugs of the kind that spring water is sold in, and 3 gallon cylindrical jugs.  3 gallons is easier to carry. 

I am wondering if jerry jugs have any advantage, or if those flexible bladder type gallon jugs are better. 

It would be nice if I could just put a jug above my sink and use a squeeze bulb to start a siphon to get water flowing.  Or just use a valve and gravity flow.

[CapnK]

Paul - RE the jug-over-sink - I've thought of using that sort of system. Of my thinking so far, best IMO is to make a place for 2 of the large pump-up sprayers (or 1 large + one small removable handheld) behind the sink, refilling when needed from flexible tanks (one on order for a QC check prior to purchasing more) stowed low and on either side of my main bulkhead, fore and aft if I get 4 bags. They are 30 gallons each, but I would not be filling them to capacity of the bag, just capacity of their respective stowage areas. I figure that's less 'stress' on the bags, and gives some redundancy.

I have moved (empty versions) of the large square and rectangular plastic tanks around inside the boat, and fitting that shape into a boat hull the size of mine just doesn't work out too well. The bags have the added benefit of being able to be placed low & against the hull, just forward of CG, which should aid in getting the boat properly balanced and reduce pitch motion (compared to further forward up under the V, or aft).

Nestled between the bag locations are my house batteries (in a separate compartment, for sure :) ). I am using the battery compartment as a step-up into my elevated V berth. So this means that with the exception of the outboard, my heaviest gear/supplies are low and centered. Keeping the bags close together like this should help me get them plumbed fairly easily for refilling of the pump-up tanks, which are the absolute best way I have found to make water last while also having a 'hands free' experience (no need to constantly pump for water flow).

[skylark]

!sticker shock on the price of those water bladders!

I know I am going around and around with this water storage stuff, but it is hard to figure out the right way to do it.  I would like about 50 gallons.  After seeing the price of flexible tanks, I am thinking that I should look for a way to build a tank using existing bulkheads under the v berth.  Does anyone know what kind of paint one should use for an area that will be used for water storage?

Also, I am still interested in what type of water jugs people are using.

[CapnK]

!sticker shock on the price of those water bladders!

Heck, those 'Aquatank' bladders are *1/2* the price of a comparably-sized bladder that has the word "marine" attached to it... And those are the cheap 'marine' bladders.  ::) The Aquatank vII is a tougher construction, I think, which is why they cost more per gallon than the  ATv1's.

Also, if you compare the ATv1's to the hardshell water containers (square or rectangle) on a gallon-for-gallon price point, they are very comparable actually. The rectangular Reliance 7 gal container is $20 at WalMart - so 4 of those, for 28 gallons total, would be $80, compared to the $65 for 30 gallons in the ATv1 bladders above.

Noticed this, when I was sussing out those prices: a 4 gallon horizontal container w/spigot. Might work well, 'over the sink'.

[Godot]

Good looking jug that could eliminate all that pesky pump business.  A quick google found tons of complaints about the seal, though. Apparently, it leaks.  Too bad.

[skylark]

Yes, I was looking at Nauta water bladder prices at Defender when I wrote that.

Those are not bad prices.  I could see a 60 under the vee berth and a 60 under the cockpit, to be filled completely only when it rains.

[Capt. Tony]

Capn K

Keep us up to date regarding the quality check on those bladders.  Of course our biggest concern is durability to the constant chafe.  Making an integral tank has not proven to be difficult or all that expensive but it would be nice to just 'plop' one (a bladder) in a locker and be done with it plus having the option of removing it and utilizing the space for something else.

Never really thought about a sprayer for the galley water supply.  But don't you still need one hand to actuate to the sprayer?   It seems to me we're right back at the 'jack handle' water pump.  Or have I overlooked the obvious?