Naysayers, pessimists, and people who don't know what they are talking about...

[David_Old_Jersey]

Only a few minutes later another coworker starts on and on about pirates and I was a fool to sail those "dangerous countries".

LOL   ;D - next time you may want to mention that for some of us your coworkers are in one of those "dangerous countries".

Methinks making your own decisions and living with the consequences is a less common concept that times passed  ::)

[Chattcatdaddy]

LOL   ;D - next time you may want to mention that for some of us your coworkers are in one of those "dangerous countries".

I actually brought up that point. Far more dangerous parts in the good old USA than the Bahamas. A lot of my coworker have never ventured outside of the USA and have no real concept of how the rest of the world lives. I have been fortunate to live in Italy for 5 yrs and traveled thru the rest of eastern Europe during that time. Never once felt unsafe. America is a far more dangerous country with a lot more violent crime. Hard to explain that to people that have never traveled outside their comfort zone.

[Auspicious]

the "yachties"  raised up cards with numbers on it just like in the games and gave my boat ratings of less than 4. I had been over 7000 miles in my boat then.

That is at once funny and rude. The question one must ask was whether they were rating your boat or your docking? *grin*

I hasten to tell a story or so of my own.

A year or so ago I was having a rainy Sunday morning brunch with my girl friend's family at Severn Inn just outside of Annapolis. The Inn is on the Severn River and has some rather challenging docks (at another time the only way I could get in was to drop anchor and snub against that as I backed into a slip in a modified Med moor). The noise level in the dining room raised noticeably and attention clearly focused on a small-ish (28 - 30 foot) sailboat trying to make the dock. Janet knows me well enough to know what to expect when I took off my coat and tie and headed for the door. One of the waiters and I helped them dock and the Janet had rustled up a towel for us by the time we got back inside.

The summer I spent sailing a Catalina 22 with my then girl friend was lovely. We often started early or where last to arrive (or both) among the boats we sailed with. Everyone was lovely and made room for us in rafts. The caliber of our cooking probably didn't hurt.

Perhaps it is off-topic for this thread, but there are some very decent people out there.

[ThistleCap]

As long as they're not being disrespectful about my plans and dreams, I try to use the opportunity to expose the naysayers to something they've had no exposure to.  They don't think your plans 'compute' because they have no perspective, and their point of view, IMHO, is a perfectly natural human response.  Some people have an inquiring mind, but the majority don't.  Like many animals who have a limited hunting radius and often die within a couple miles of where they were born, humans often live their lives with blinders, are short-sighted, insular, and very narrow-minded.  They know what they were raised to know, and don't reach beyond that.  Some naysayers are rude with their opinions, but I try to consider that they're that way because they simply don't know any better, and such is the pity.  The bright side is that if most people understood the beauty, peace, fulfillment, and enrichment of sailing, our anchorages would be a lot more crowded.  

[Frank]

People generally make their opinions based on their personal experience. While in Vancouver on my friends trawler, I stated how it would be really nice to have a Cdory 22 out there to explore on. He replied "you couldn't spend much time on a 22....it would be way too small. I explained that it would be a great boat, easy on fuel, trailerable, cheap to store and on top of that....I was used to a much smaller interior. I went on to say what a luxury it would be to have room out back for a few deck chairs like you could on a Cdory....something I couldn't do on my sailboat. He looked at me like I had horns or came from another planet. It simply 'did not compute' to his reality. His trawler is a 42. In his mind...how could I possibly find 'luxury' on a 22fter. We agreed to dissagree.

[Zen]

LOL   ;D - next time you may want to mention that for some of us your coworkers are in one of those "dangerous countries".

I actually brought up that point. Far more dangerous parts in the good old USA than the Bahamas. A lot of my coworker have never ventured outside of the USA and have no real concept of how the rest of the world lives. I have been fortunate to live in Italy for 5 yrs and traveled thru the rest of eastern Europe during that time. Never once felt unsafe. America is a far more dangerous country with a lot more violent crime. Hard to explain that to people that have never traveled outside their comfort zone.

How true. I read a rating once about the safeness of countries. The US was ranked something like 12 out of say 15. with Iraq being 15.

[s/v Faith]

It comes back to the old adage....

  "Be careful with whom you share your dreams, those who have already abandoned theirs will try to get you to do so also."

  The world is full of those people.  Thankfully, there are some like those who have replied already on this thread.  ;D



 

[Bluenose]

With all the viable and beautiful choices that exist in boating, I often wonder why each choice isn't satisfying enough for those who chose them. But alas it seems that many, many folks need to negate other people's choices that are different to rationalized or justify there own.

I run across this often when I mentioned that I sail without an engine. I am newly rediscovering sailing (about 5 years now) and have been slowly increasing my/our capabilities and range (and I have a few crazy dreams). But each step along the way there has been no shortage of naysayers with stories of the dire fate which awaits us since we don't have an engine to "save" us.

It could be a full time job debating the issue but it is easier and more fun to just go sailing.

Cheers, Bill

[ThistleCap]

Good for you, Bill.  I love to hear that.  There are indeed those times when an engine may "save" us, but sailing without an engine is really all about planning ahead.  Plan ahead so everything goes smoothly, and plan ahead so we don't get into those predicaments to begin with.  That's really good seamanship even with an engine.  If the spot is a little too tight to sail into, well, that's what they make warping lines for.  Right?
A friend of mine had a John Alden version of the English pilot cutter.  I had watched it for him while he was off making some money, and when he returned, he was heading for the Mediterranean.  He said, "I'm getting sick and tired of hauling that engine around.  It just doesn't earn its keep.  Would you be willing to help me haul it out, and sell it for me while I'm in the Med.?  You can send me the money when I get back to the V.I."  So he sailed all over the Med., an area loaded with teeny little over-crowded harbors, and did great.
The previous owner of one of our boats allowed water back into the engine, and let it go until the engine was good for nothing but a dinghy mooring, and that's what it was used for.  We sailed all over the VI without an engine, and even got pretty good at sailing it backwards when needed.
Another fellow we knew had a 38-ft. schooner, which he kept in an inside slip on one the marina's inside piers.  He'd back it out of the slip under sail, spin it around between the piers, and sail it out of the marina, all under sail.  Coming in, if he had momentum enough, he's spring into the slip.  If not, he's grab a windward piling or boat and hand on a line until he ran a warp.  And this was a boat with a full keel and keel-hung rudder!!
Ignore the naysayers.  There was a day when the world was covered with sailboats, and none of them had engines.  You're enjoying a true art form.

[Amgine]

:sigh: I'm currently moored up the lower arm of the Fraser River. There used to be warping buoys from the Sandheads buoys to both Steveston and Lund, which were simply particularly well-anchored buoys with fittings designed to take the strain of biggish ships warping against the river current. No more, they're gone like the windlasses of the Seattle Ship Canal and the many structures of Boston Harbor.

There are places it is unsafe to manage without motors, because the infrastructure has changed.

On the other hand, I've sailed my little boat into places that have had others - especially people on the big shiny boats - fearing for my safety. Everyone up island was surprised to see me sail in from the fog without radar; a couple of them actually got angry with me for it. Yes, it's foggy up there, but we were making the required sound signals, and we'd have been perfectly safe if everyone else had done so too (btw: none of them did. I mean none of them, other than the ferry.) Luckily by sailing we could hear everyone else, and be prepared to get out of their way.

Our little motor (~8 hp) doesn't help us too much. Even with the motor we have to carefully plot the tidal currents, and if there's any wind at all I prefer the sails (I can go faster with 'em, too.) Knowing I have to keep track of the tides, have to plot where we're going to drop the hook until the current turns again, makes me more familiar with the waters I'm going to be traveling through. I have to keep track of my speed more closely too, know exactly where I am, and make changes to my piloting and navigation constantly. I hope it is making me a better seaman, a better navigator, even though I seem to get caught out by more things the more I sail.

My mum is terrified of water, can't swim, and thinks I'm crazy to be boating in big water. But the more I do it, the less she says bad about it. I figure the same thing about the landbound naysayers.

[Bluenose]

My intent was not to bring up the whole engine verses engineless debate because I just don't think it matters anymore. I imagine that most of the coastal place in the world were discover without any infrastructure by travelers with oars or sail. But as time went on it was only natural that we wanted less risk and more convenience. I get that, no worries.

But in the Pacific Northwest people happily cruise the inside passage in kayaks, rowboats, sailboats, motor sailors, power boats, tug boats, fishing boats, ferries and cruise ships (and I am sure I missed something). And I am pretty sure that they feel that their choice is pretty safe but many others with different choices might just shake their heads.

I like to look at this topic a different way. If some has the confidence and capability to do something that I don't feel comfortable doing, like say kayaking to Alaska, I salute them.

After all, we are all pushing the boundary in someone else's mind.

Cheers, Bill

[newt]

I too am cruising the PNW. My wife mentioned that she finds it refreshing...very little snobbery as we pull up in Friday harbor next to a $$$$ yacht. The mooring fields are full of big and little boats. Nobody seems to care. There are a lot of nice people out there.

[Gus]

I woulda give them the 'two fingers' salute, middle finger that is, but that just me and I'm rude like that.

I was comming into Oreintal N.C. after a day of voyaging down the ICW. I had small carft winds and seas of 3 to 6 feet in the bays. I saw almost no boats. I went to the fuel dock on a Sunday afternoon and the "yachties"  raised up cards with numbers on it just like in the games and gave my boat ratings of less than 4. I had been over 7000 miles in my boat then.

I could care less what the Land people say. I know better.

Living in Key West Fl, A lot of poeple have heard of my travels and are respectful, green with envey, ect.... for what I have done.

[Auspicious]

I think it would be more fun to bring up a piece of paper and magic marker and give them a "1" right back.

[Gus]

or better yet, rename your boat as "I'm paid for, suckers!"  :D

[cantxsailor]

Good list Bluenose. I paddled a 16ft Sears canoe from Victoria to Uclulet in 77 and then all over the Bedwell Inlet area north of Tofino and Mears Island.

Like anything if you use your brain for something more than keeping you ears apart your usually way ahead of the game.

My current boat Turtle is a PSC25 and has been sailed all over the western and northern pacific and then to the caribean (before my ownership). I hear regularly how this guy or that guy wouldn't feel safe in such a small boat.

Having paddled in close enough to touch a gray whale I don't know what they mean.

Now if I can just get her back in the water(she survived IKE) soon I might get another adventure or two before I croak.............martin

[Captain Smollett]

Sorry, but I gotta vent because right now I'm feeling a bit sick of "People who don't know what they are talking about" when it comes to boats and boating.

Is it just me, or have ya'll noticed that it is JUST these people to which others tend to listen and from which noobs seek advice?

I'm sick of it.

Each of the following three points relate to one person, that ONE person that EVERYONE listens to and seeks out for advice. Let's call him "M."

(1) M: "When I'm out at sea, if I get uncomfortable, I just call for a tow."

Note he did not say if something was damaged, just if he is 'uncomfortable.'

(2) Several weeks ago, while "encouraging" a newbie couple to "go to the Bahamas with us," the lady was asking about sailing since in her mind, her boat was "too slow" to keep up with the rest.

(Quick aside - I cannot stand the thought of 'buddy boating' on an extended trip like this with EIGHT other boats, but I guess that suits some folks).

Anyway, she did not want to slow the group down or be a nuisance due to their slowness or inexperience.

M: "Oh, don't worry about that.  We motor everywhere we go.  Even the crossing from Florida; there's just no point in putting the sails up."  He said some other similar stuff, but, well, that's the idea.

::)

3.) On the subject of a Grampian 26 for sale, it was mentioned that it had a 15 HP outboard on it.  Against my better judgment, I mentioned that was way too much engine for that boat.

M: "Oh no, that boat is big; it needs the horsepower."

Huh?  It's still a displacement hull with a LWL well under 30 ft, and not that heavy.  Just Wow.

Okay, so M is also the same guy that argued that I "GOT to have roller furling, you should not sail without it."  Interesting position for a guy that 'motors everywhere.'

Also, there was a fellow here last year that was just getting started in sailing and was asking about anchors and anchoring out - for lunch or the occasional overnighter, all on good, soft sandy bottom.  I told him that FOR NOW, forgo buying chain and just use a nylon rode.  M shouted me down saying "you GOT to have as much chain as you can carry, AT LEAST 200 feet."  I still wonder why for a fellow mostly interested in day sailing and overnighting in 8-10 feet of water 200 feet of chain is the MINIMUM "required" ground tackle, but oh well.

Some people just have that personality that draws in others; no matter what they are saying, people will listen with rapt attention and heed their words.

I just don't get it.

[Tim]

I dunno why, but one can see it all the time, he with the biggest mouth gets listened to. The only good part is that often those listening are just wanting somebody to tell them what to do, not really wanting to take the time to learn for themselves.

[Frank]

Capt. S     .......b r e a t h   i n .....   
                 ......b r e a t h     o u t ......

Some people have that "power" over others, be it their voice, over confidence...whatever. We all know a few. Aggravating lil buggers ain't they  >:(

[Captain Smollett]

The only good part is that often those listening are just wanting somebody to tell them what to do, not really wanting to take the time to learn for themselves.

Is that really a GOOD thing?  I mean, isn't that part of the problem...that the ones that don't know are listening to others that don't really know, either, but talk a good game?

I guess "know" is the operative word here.  My problem is that I imagine that everyone aboard a boat is striving toward some (reasonable) standard of seamanship; I have finally learned that is simply not true.

Most of these guys are happy enough to hop aboard and do nothing more than point 'er in the right direction.  Apparently, running a boat requires nothing more.  Not my way of looking at things, but oh well.  They accumulate miles under the keel, so they keep doing what works for them.  So, if it works, I guess I have no place to complain.

Capt. S     .......b r e a t h   i n .....   
                 ......b r e a t h     o u t ......

Oh, I'll be okay.   ;D ;D