Windvanes & self steering systems.

[Didereaux]

Finally got a good day on which to do the initial adjusting and setup on the newly installed Navik windvane.
boat: CD-25
sails: full main and 100% jib
Crew: 2

Conditions:
Beginning winds 4knts gradully increasing to 10.
Duration: 3 hrs
Wind direction tested: Close hauled to 1 point abaft the beam.

Results: Absurdly good!

All alignments(there are only three) that could be done at the dock were done carefully. And no further mechanical adjustments were necessary once out in the bay. THe mounting installation was very carefully done to make sure all parts weres in as close alignment to the boat as was possible, and I believe this accounts for most of the ease of the fine tuning.

We followed the small instruction book, pretty closely and the vane reacted exactly as was described. The only minor use of our own brain power required was in attaching and adjusting the lines to the tiller. Loops with rolling hitches served admirably.

The vane was just as responsive in the very light airs as it was later in the day. A very surprising (for me) thing.

Boat trim and sail trim were not a big factor, again a thing that surprised both of us a great deal. We were tested several times with heavy rolling from large wakes and the vane never faltered, keeping course perfectly even when rolling 20-25°.

The outboard was left in the motorwell and did not seem to have any effect, other than its drag. When motoring the vane is disconnected and the steering lines secured so the oar is vertical.

But the most surprising thing was the tacking test. The vane failed to complete the unassisted tacking in the very light air(air 4-5knts boat 2knts) it came up and stalled, however; when the boat speed reached 3+ knts the vane carried through without a hitch and all that was necessary was to tend the jib sheets(we did this several times). You simply dial(rotate) the vane 90° (or whatever the reciprical tack is) and sit back and watch the boat come about.

Sometime in the next few days I will take it out and run under following winds and see the performance then.

When all is more or less to satisfaction I will put together some pictures and a better explanation and post them. But if push come to shove, I would not hesitate to recommend this particular vane to any owner of the smaller CD's(it is rated for upto a 35').

still grinning,
_________________
Didereaux- San Leon, TX
CD-25 "Spring Gail"
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the
black flag, and begin slitting throats." - H. L. Mencken

[Zen]

Anyone has some opinions on an Aries Windvane?

[xroyal]

Sounds neat!

Must take a ton of stress out of longer passages.

Good for you!  :)

[s/v Faith]

Didereaux,

  Thanks for taking the plunge, and sharing the results!  Karma pop for you!

  What made you settle on the Navik?  What were the deciding factors?

  Where did you get it?  How much was it?  How hard was it to mount?  Got any pictures?

  :)  Maybe you can tell I am interested in this.....   ;D

[Didereaux]

s/v Faith asked>"Didereaux,

  Thanks for taking the plunge, and sharing the results!  Karma pop for you!

  What made you settle on the Navik?  What were the deciding factors?

  Where did you get it?  How much was it?  How hard was it to mount?  Got any pictures?

  Smiley  Maybe you can tell I am interested in this.....   Grin>

Not really a sequence, more a serendipitous occurance. heh  First, I could not afford any windvanes new or used, so have spent a good deal of time working on sheet-2-tiller methods of self-steering.  Slow, but was getting there.  But still I looked at and read the lit on all the vanes I could identify.  I had found that the only commercial vane that really was practical for very small boats was the Navik, which had rounded the Horn on a Contessa and also several ocean crossings on even smaller boats.  Still, at a new price of over $2000 it was only a fantasy.

I have since the purchase discoved a guy down here with an identical boat(Cape Dory 25) who has crossed the Gulf with it two or three times, his advice has been invaluable. (CharlieJ on this board knows him as well).

I was in our local broken boat store(used/consingment) one day when the owner asked if I had seen what was out front on the main table.. I said no, as that stuff was waaay out of my wallet range usually.  He insisted,, so I looked around the corner and instantly saw the name Navik on a vane.  The unit was complete, even with spare fittings and such.  Didn't even look nor ask the price. 

Went home, woke up 3-4 times that night thinking about the d@#$n thing, went back the nect morning and ask if the consignor would dicker on price (still without knowing what the asking price was) shopkeeper said probably won't since he had only brought it in the previous morning, but said what the hey, make a really small offer and see if the guy will play.  So I did, and fifteen minutes later the owner hollered down the aisle that I was a proud owner of a Navik...fog the price of $300!!!!
...and yes, I am still grinning and pinching.

The mounting was dead simple,  I did have two small brackets made, as well as a couple of stand-offs to match my boats transom, but the total cost was only something like $25-30, took most of a long morning doing it alone.

Yes, I have a few pictures and will try and upload them as soon as I can get the time.  And will try and include some decent explanations as well as a shot ot two of it in operation.  But first I have only a couple of weeks(May 26 or so) before the sea trials of it.  Will go off-shore and down coast a couple of hundred miles and back which should pretty much show any real shortcomings I missed on these day checks.

...and thanks for the wishes!  ;)

did

[Zen]

SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D

[Pixie Dust]

You got an awesome deal!  That is way way way too Kewl!!
Thanks for posting all the cool info. 

[CharlieJ]

 ;D Charlie J not only knows him, Tehani is in his old slip.

Actually, was talking to him last Saturday evening about our pending gulf crossing (week from Saturday) Charts have arrived and next week will be a flurry of boat work getting ready to sail.

[CapnK]

Excellent, Did! A vane for $300 - dayum! :D

Interesting to know your experiences - sounds like that vane would work on my boat, too. I'll give you $400 for it...  ;D

CJ - Here's hoping you have favorable winds for the crossing! 8) 8) 8)

[Shakabrah]

I was looking at a used Aries and decided against it. I read that the older aries fold down in heavy weather and the servo rudder comes out of the water, which renders the unit unusable.

I have been toying with putting a wind vane on my boat for a couple of years now. I have looked at quite a few systems. I have an externally hung rudder so trim tab appeals to me. I also like the "Hydrovane" because it is it's own system that runs independent of all of the ships systems. It also has the ability to reef and be used as an emergency rudder.

[Oldrig]

Well, I'm not sure this is the appropriate place, but I notice that Smollett (sp?) already broached the subject:

I'm not quite ready to go for a windvane -- it's too expensive, and most of my cruising, while I hope it will cover long distances, will be coastal (at least for the immediate future), so I'm in the process of experimenting with sheet-to-tiller steering.

I've found a bunch of websites (many referred to me through the Cape Dory board), and I started experimenting last year. I'm still in the beginning stages of this quest--I bought a copy of John Letcher's book on self-steering just before I went into the hospital last year. It was great enforced reading!

Any takers on this subject?

Thanks,

--Joe

[Godot]

Ran across what looks like a very interesting windvane system that is currently in beta testing (or whatever it is that non computer geeks call it).  According to the website it has been designed for boats up to 27', is a servo pendulum system weighing about 17.5 lbs, is highly compatible with outboard engines and transom hung rudders and is very sensitive for light air sailing. 

Oh, and if you are willing to buy one of the "test" systems, you can get it for an astounding 476 euros (about $611 as I write this).  Shipping extra, of course.  I don't know if us USA located folks would have to pay VAT or not.  The production cost is supposed to be 879 Euros (or about $1128)

Some readily apparent issues:  It is a new system that is not quite production ready.  Some assembly required.  You may need an additional mounting kit.  It is designed for boats with easy helms.

Bonuses: Light weight.  Low cost.  A designer who doesn't seem to be interested in blowing smoke up potential customer butts.  He appears very honest about the boats the vane is good for, and doesn't hesitate to turn away potential customers if he doesn't think it is a good fit.  Other stuff which I am unqualified to speak on.

He even has a few videos showing it in action.

Running down wind: [small] [big]
Close Hauled: [small] [big]
Tacking: [small] [big]

This might be a good deal for someone who is looking to add wind vane steering.   

Mr. Vane Self steering for small sailboats

[Dougcan]

This topic has been moved to "Gear Here".

http://sailfar.net/forum/index.php?topic=725.0

[Dougcan]

Looks very interesting and simple!  I'm glad you posted it!

I moved this topic to here (Gear Here) as this is a better place for this kind of thing.

[AdriftAtSea]

Looks like an interesting piece of gear... I still have to read more on the site about it though. :D  I'd like to get a windvane for the Pretty Gee. 

[Oldrig]

Thanks for posting this site. It looks interesting--I've also been interested in exploring windvane steering. Cost has always been a factor.

I'll have to e-mail Sven and see if his new product is suitable for a full-keeled, heavy-displacement boat with a rudder that's part of the keel. (In other words, would "Mr. Vane," which is specifically designed for small boats, be suitable for my Cape Dory 25D?)

Anyway, it's a nice link to explore.

--Joe

[barnaclephill]

I see you guys asked about 15 months ago about the Norvane windvane. I have put one on my 26' yacht and am very satisfied with it. when there's no wind it's not good, but I am happy with it because it is very reliable, it's sturdy and rugged as well as a brilliant piece of engineering. it follows the windshifts really well. It steers well straight downwind on a flat lake, but in 2mt swells where the boat wants to surf and broach any windvane is not brilliant at that angle of straight downwind. A little off the wind would be better, but it says the same thing in the autopilot instructions.

[s/v Faith]

I see you guys asked about 15 months ago about the Norvane windvane. I have put one on my 26' yacht and am very satisfied with it. ......

barnaclephill,

  Thanks for posting this, I would really like to see some pictures of the installation if you have any.

[barnaclephill]

Hi S/v Faith,
in the attached photos you can see how the Norvane is set up on my yacht. The yacht is steel, and to save freight costs (California to Australia) I had the bent tubular arms and attachment parts made locally to a diagram Norca/the manufaturer gave me.
The vane can be rotated 180degrees when at anchorage/approaching a marina to save bumping into a dinghy or docks, and to save a little noise between the gears, etc as I did at Refuge. Underway there is no noise, but when anchored just the wave motion affects the paddle by about 5 degrees or one tooth meshing with another.  The solar panel is held flat underway to not disturb the windflow, but on a beam or tail wind it doesn't matter.  I have the yellow rope sewn to make a loop as it is easier than leaning over the back of the yacht in my installation.
On leaving the vane area, the red non-stretch rope leads to one block on each quarter and then to a chain and the chain goes over the tiller. I epoxied a 1/4" bolt  vertically through the tiller and about 18" of small chain is positioned across that. The red rope is tensioned (with a fiddle v-block) and terminated to the start of the small chain. This way I can adjust the vane's direction link-by-link for fine tuning, (esp. when motoring with no wind), but also to have a quick release mechanism without changing the aerofoil's alignment.

Overall I'm satisfied with it.
The reasons I bought it were that I was advised in a boat shop that the much cheaper autopilots wouldn't work satisfactorily with a steel boat, and even with a remote compass, the autopilot/compass would be about 20%cheaper than the windvane and installation. That 20% cost saving would be spent in solar& battery infrastructure, so all-in-all they come out at roughly equal in price. If I had a plastic boat , an autopilot is superficially less cost.
This Norvane was about the cheapest I discovered in my research, but as well as that was that it was solidly built from stainless and not aluminium, and at about 20kg was solid and couldn't bend like some ones that look (to me) flimsier. It also had a 5 year guarantee I think, and I bought a kit of spare bearings etc while I had the big freight cost. I liked Norca Industry's website also, in that there were clear pictures in which I could adequately see the quality and ruggedness of the design.

With the windvane steering, going straight downwind is ok on the Lakes, but out at sea in a 2 metre swell my boat wants to surf and then try to broach/round down. I'm trying to figure this one out, but it seems that does occur only when within about 10 degrees each side of straight downwind, and it may very probably also have to do with me having the mainsail up as well, and something to do with the speed - I read that I could hand the main and slow down and waves will overtake me rather than catching up to me and causing me to surf.
I read in the Tillerpilot instruction book (newly acquired) that it advises also to avoid that same angle of near straight downwind sailing. I recently bought a tillerpilot because I've had enough of hand steering on 50 mile passages with no wind.

I hope that answers your question.

[AdriftAtSea]

With the windvane steering, going straight downwind is ok on the Lakes, but out at sea in a 2 metre swell my boat wants to surf and then try to broach/round down. I'm trying to figure this one out, but it seems that does occur only when within about 10 degrees each side of straight downwind, and it may very probably also have to do with me having the mainsail up as well, and something to do with the speed - I read that I could hand the main and slow down and waves will overtake me rather than catching up to me and causing me to surf.
I read in the Tillerpilot instruction book (newly acquired) that it advises also to avoid that same angle of near straight downwind sailing. I recently bought a tillerpilot because I've had enough of hand steering on 50 mile passages with no wind.

I think this is pretty universal to most windvanes and autopilots in general.  It depends a lot on the boat, as some are less likely to try and broach.