Sea Cocks, Hose, thruhull's, etc....

[AdriftAtSea]

Get the proper size plug for each through-hull, drill a hole across the top, run a string through it, and tie the other end to the corresponding fitting.  That way, if you ever need it, it's right there.

You really also should put it in a plastic bag... The vacuum food sealers work great for this... you can make custom bags for each plug. The string and hole are a good idea, so you can tie the plug into the fitting, so the water pressure doesn't push it out before it swells up as the water soaks the softwood plug. 

Since the safety plugs are supposed to be softwood and are supposed to swell up with the water soaking them to hold them in position...keeping the plugs dry before you use them is CRITICAL.

As for greasing the seacocks, anhydrous lanolin is quite good for it, and won't wash away....

[s/v Faith]

Somewhere in the past the forward bronze seacocks were replaced with Marlon.  They operate well, require no lubrication, and are not subject to electrolysis.

The two aft cockpit drains were originally plumbed straight through, but one of the prior owners switched over to ball valves.  This is not satisfactory for a couple of reasons.

First, ball valves do not transmit shearing or torsion forces to the hull.  They require that the base of the through hull carry any load applied.  A tool box sliding into a mounted ball valve in a seaway will be much more likely to break it off then damage a properly installed seacock.

  The second problem is that ball valves are rarely constructed to wistand the corrosive environment a seacock is asked to function in.  Many have stainless  balls that rotate in nylon sleeves.  This probably works great on a farm, but not so well when submerged in salt water, and removed and lubricated, or even operated on a regular basis.

  As though to prove my belief about ball valves not belonging on a boat, both of mine have failed.  The handles move, but when I closed the port side valve to inspect the sink drain (also plumbed to the cockpit drain) the water ingress did not slow down.

  I now have to replace both the valves.

This long and rambling post was intended to ask if anyone knows of any legitmate reason not to go with Marlon seacocks aft?

[AdriftAtSea]

Marelon is the only plastic I'd recommend using for any through hulls or seacocks that are below the waterline on a boat.  They're made of glass-reinforced nylon.  Unre-inforced plastic through hulls are a really bad idea...as even a small impact, in cold weather, can cause them to fracture IIRC.

Just my $.02 worth.   

[oded kishony]

I installed two Marelon seacocks on my boat after I bought her. They haven't leaked or anything but when I twist the handle it flexes quite a bit-I find it disconcerting. I'm always worried that it will break. I think I'd go with bronze if I had it to do over.

Oded Kishony

[s/v Faith]

Oded,

  Do you remember what brand they are?  The forespar brand marlon seacocks I have up fwd (1" and 2") seem pretty solid.   ???...

[oded kishony]

I don't recall what brand, but I bought them at West Marine. I wonder if I should have greased them brefore installing? No one mentioned it and I didn't see any instructions indicating this. They seem to be very stiff and hard to turn. 

Oded

[AdriftAtSea]

One thing, IIRC, Forespar is the owner of the Marelon trademark, and the only manufacturer of Marelon seacocks.  If the ones Oded got aren't from Forespar, they probably aren't marelon, and that may be why they seem a bit weak.  The ones on my boat are Forespar marelon seacocks and even though a few are rather stiffer than I'd like, seem pretty solid to me.

[oded kishony]

Hi ,

This is what West Marine is selling these days:

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/producte/10001/-1/10001/12108/0/0/Marelon%20seacock/All_2/mode+matchallpartial/0/0

It's made by Forespar. While the handle felt very solid at first, after it was installed the action seemed much stiffer and the handle  flexed too much. My suggestion is to look carefully into whether this seacock needs to be lubricated prior to installation.

Oded

[oded kishony]

Hi Dan,

>I have very similar looking seacocks on my boat...and they seem to be fine.  <

Did you grease them when you installed them or since? I'm wondering if that's the reason mine are too stiff.

~OK

[AdriftAtSea]

Nope... :)

[AllAboutMe]

Oded,
downloaded this from the Forespar web page.
Marelon® - Marine Grade Plumbing Systems Valve Lubrication

As a follow up to previous Tech Tips; it is important to know that while Marelon® fixings are corrosion resistant, they do require twice yearly lubrication maintenance. These valves should be activated on a regular schedule. The handle should be moved throughout the open/close path every thirty days. Leaving a valve open or closed without moving the handle can cause freeze-up. This is true of any valve, including bronze. The law of nature is "use it or loose it".     

To lubricate ball valves and seacocks while the boat is in the water you must:

   1. Close valve.
   2. Remove hose from tailpipe.
   3. Remove remaining water from valve/tailpipe.
   4. Swab waterproof grease (water pump grease, winch grease) or LanoCote™, generously, on ball.
   5. Reattach hose, checking for fatigue and rusted hose clamps.
   6. Activate valve a few times. When boat is hauled, you can perform steps 4-6 from outside the hull to lubricate opposite side of ball and seals.

[oded kishony]

Thanks Larry,

Yes, I've discovered that rotating the handle back and forth several times help to limber it up. I'm going to start lubricating it regularly.

Oded

[oded kishony]

Greetings:

I'm planning the work I'll be doing this winter, after my boat get hauled.

There are two old thru hulls for the head that are no longer in service, (a ball valve/screw type) and a seacock.
Ideally I'd like to remove the thru hull and glass it over, but not enough time to do that this winter. I'm thinking of removing the two units and replacing them with end caps, of the type you typically see in home plumbing.

Question: is this a reasonable thing to do? Will it make those thru hulls safer?
If the answer is yes, then should I use a plastic cap or a metal one? Is there such a cap designed for marine application?

Thanks,
Oded Kishony

[AdriftAtSea]

Oded-

I think you'd be better off leaving the thru-hulls and seacocks in place, and attaching an endcap to the pipe that comes out of the seacock...that way if someone accidentally opens it, the water won't come flooding in.  I don't think putting an end cap in the hull would really be sufficiently strong to keep the water out if you encounter heavy seas or rougher weather, and could put you and your boat at risk. 

[oded kishony]

Adriftatsea writes:

>I think you'd be better off leaving the thru-hulls and seacocks in place, and >attaching an endcap to the pipe that comes out of the seacock...<

My intention was to leave the thru hull in place, remove the seacock and gatevalave and screw the end cap over the thru hull. (the inside of the thru hull is usually a threaded pipe)
I can imagine the gate valved seacock, which is original (1978) breaking or springing a leak.
OTOH the inside opening of seacocks is not threaded, so I don't know how I would attach an end cap to it. Pehaps solder or glue it in place?

Oded Kishony

[AdriftAtSea]

Ahh... yes that is probably the way to go...I thought you were going to remove the through-hulls, and then embed the end cap in the hole in the hull.  :o 

[Fortis]

My experience is that there is a better then 80% chance that you just will not be able to convince fittings that old to neatly seperate. So "just" unscrewing the valves form the through hulls may quickly lead you to "interesting times".

One of the most likely things that will happen is that the action of unscrewing the valve will, despite best attempts against this" begin to spin the through hull fitting, thus killing the caulking and requiring its removal and replacement etc....

You can buy "blind" through hulls(just like a normal one, but with a blank plate across where the hole normals is)...but I am of two minds about these, and would prefer to think of them as short term solutions.

I think that the "easy" cure remains Mr Drifty's suggestion of leaving the valves and mounting the plug cap in place of where the hoses started. If you do not have a lot of time to deal with consequenses of things not quite going to plan, then this is the safest bet. It is kind of ugly...but you did say you were coming back to this and doing proper glassing of the hull later.

Alex.


P.S  My experience nowadays is to just assume that the easiest way to remove an old valve on a boat (especialy ex toilet fittings) is some water as coolent and an angle grinder around the valve collar, then a quick two cuts of the through-hul's nut and a tap with a hammer to knock the remainder out. They just bind up and weld themselves into inexoharble messes (or masses) and there is just no way to insure that the integrity of the through hull caulking has not been compromised by the toqueing around on the valve with big spanners. Given that $25 for a new through hull is still cheaper then finding you need to haul the boat all over again because the through hulls now leak....I tend to just replace the whole lot if it comes to that. Younger valves, and those made of composite attached to metal through hulls tend to be different and come off with more pleasent regularity.

[CharlieJ]

Oded- If it were my boat, I seriously think I'd find or MAKE the time to just remove them and glass over the holes. Shouldn't take more than 2 half days to do it and then you don't have to concern yourself with the openings at all, ever.

[AdriftAtSea]

Part of it really depends on whether the through-hulls are the type that have bolts and a flange on the inside, and if the seacocks have the flange or are just fitted to the through-hull.  If they have the bolts, removing them may be almost as much work as removing the throug-hull and glassing over the opening.  Glassing over the opening would be far more secure, and less vulnerable to galvanic corrosion, lightning strikes, freezing, etc.

[AllAboutMe]

Oded
I have used caps on the head and sink thru hulls on my 8.7, and while it's a good temp fix, it isn't the best way to go. I am paranoid to the point that I check them when I arrive, while I'm sailing and before I leave the boat.
If you can find bronze nipples that will match the thread on hte gate valves, and bronze caps that will fit the nipples , it will probably be fine. If however you want to remove the thru hulls and glass over them, I will be glad to help you with it. As stated, it really isn't that time consuming, and I have all the supplies needed, on hand.
Total cost if materials is probably less than $10.00 and I will donate my labor, and expertise,(which is pretty much worthless, I mean priceless, anyway.
Let me know. We could knock it out in a couple of days, and it doesn't have to be consecutive days. The holes could be prepared one day, and the glassing over at a later date.
Larry