Hoop cheese, & other foods that do not require refrigeration

[oded kishony]

Something I like to keep on board is a package of jerky meat. I buy mine at Whole Foods and because I want to avoid  preservatives. I like the Turkey nuggets the best. It's very tasty, mostly protein and will last almost indefinitely.
Something we make at home is yogurt cheese-simply put yogurt into cheese cloth and hang it up letting the liquid drip out. It's a good tangy cheese. I would guess most any outdoor store stocking camping food would have a large selection of packable food.

Oded Kishony

[CharlieJ]

Really really simple to make jerky at home- no need to pay the prices just to have someone dry it for you.

LOTS of info on it available. Good idea though. Jerky CAN be reconstituted in soups and stews ya know.

[CharlieJ]

Last night on the chat the subject came up of refrigeration aboard, and led to cruising without it, and without ice, like Laura and I do -for food that is- we DO carry ice for drinks when we can.  ;)

Here's a link I promised about doing without ice, from Good Old Boat, reposted via BOAT/US-

http://www.boatus.com/goodoldboat/cooler.htm

And while we are about it, here's one from the same source on pressure cookers aboard.

http://www.boatus.com/goodoldboat/pressure.htm

[Captain Smollett]

Some thoughts about ice on board.

• I have a SAIL article around here somewhere about improving the icebox.  The article mentions that most boat iceboxes are (1)under-insulated, (2) allow the ice to sit on bottom and (3) provide no drainage.
  
  The problem with (1) is obvious and is easily corrected by gluing in some exta insulation.  I think others have posted on sailfar about good ones.
  
  (2) If the ice sits on the bottom of the box, AND (3) is true, the ice sits in water.  This causes the ice to melt faster.  Put a grating on the bottom to hold the ice off the bottom of the box and install a drain, and the ice will last a WEEK or more (according to the article).
  
  The author also recommended using BLOCK ice, rather than chips or cubes, with chips or cubes only used to fill in the empty spaces after the food is packed in.  Empty space in the box is the enemy.


• I believe it was in Eric Hiscock's Cruising Under Sail that I read an interesting idea, and one that I think seems to fit the sailfar ideal.  The idea comes from a cruiser who had his beverages of choice (beer, in his case) deep frozen and used the cans of frozen beer as his block ice.  Though some may object to this (with beer) at least, we do a variation of the theme.
  
  We save our 16 oz or 1 L soft drink bottles.  They get filled with water and frozen. (we do the same with 1 gal milk jugs if there is room in the freezer).  In the summer, we use them as our block ice for the cooler, and when they melt, we have 'bottled' water ready to drink.
  
  I routinely use these frozen bottles in the 95+ degree SC summer days, and even after several hours, often in direct sunlight, they remain frozen.  In the cooler, they last a couple of days.

For a week to ten days or less cruising away from shore, one does not need to do without ice.  For ocean passages, of course, this would only be good for the first week or two.

Just a counterpoint for, uh, food for thought.   ;)

[CharlieJ]

Totally agree on your first points. Block ice holds far better, and you HAVE to keep it up out of the melt water. Also more insulation is the ticket- INCLUDING the lids. Many far far short there.

On Tehani we rebuilt the entire galley just because there was NO room for insulation in the stock arrangement- and none existed either. Basically what we had was a storage box..

We built it to have 3 1/2 inches of insulations every where, including the lids. I'd have loved more but that's all the room there was. We sectioned the lid so we had a larger section over the ice and a small part where you open it to get something out. I also added a shelf for the ice to sit on, about 6 inches off the bottom. We chose to NOT add a drain- we simply pump or sponge the melt water out each day.

Sailing in Mississippi Sound, in June, we had a 12.5 pound block of ice last 9 days This was very good hard clear ice. We had bought a block elsewhere that was simply pressed crushed shaved ice- lasted about 2 days. So the ICE makes a big difference also.

Having said all that- the premise of this site is people who wish to sail FAR on small boats. If you are going to sail FAR, and on a small boat, then you need to learn to live WITHOUT ice or refrigeration. Once you get out and away that refrigeration can become a real PITA and ice can be difficult to find. If you learn to do without it, as mankind did for millenia by the way, you free yourself from some significant roadblocks on WHERE you can go, and particularly HOW LONG you can stay there. Don't handcuff your self just to keep stuff cold.

Just to give you one quick example- leaving Key West you can easily sail to the Marquessas, spend a week anchored there snorkling, etc, then head for the Tortugas. Another week there, exploring the fort, the lighthouse, snorkling, fishing, etc, then a leisurely sail back to Key West, with perhaps another week ( or more ) anchored in the Marquessas. You AREN'T buying ice out there- there's no place to get it. And your frozen water or block of ice is gonna run out soon after the first week no matter HOW good the insulation is. My last cruise out there lasted 21 days.

So learn to live without it - it's really pretty easy, Particularly out in places like that where fresh fish is readily available for the catching.

Now on short trips- say under a week, we DO carry ice - it's hot down here on the Texas coast and cold drinks are really nice. We freeze a block in a Rubbermaid dishpan that's about 13 or 14 pounds. We also freeze bottles of water. Lasts well for short trips, but when it runs out, it runs out -  unless we HAPPEN to be somplace where we can get ice. If not, we don't worry about losing food, cause we never have any of our food refrigerated.

[Captain Smollett]

the premise of this site is people who wish to sail FAR on small boats.

I quite agree with what you wrote; learning to do without has been the doctrine of my hiking/camping style for so long that for me personally, it is second nature.  I agree that "no-ice" is the more KISS-able (??) approach.

My only point was how to improve things for those shorter trips.  Also, sometimes we can sail far without necessarily being far away from 'luxuries.' I'm planning a trip, not for this year, that starts on the SC coast and ends in Mississippi, but will involve no more than 2-3 day sets without a resupply-coast hopping.  So, if the need is there, really there, a proper ice chest is a must and is do-able.

Every adventure is a lesson in compromise.  For this trip, I have to make the choice: no ice=no crew vs carry some ice and have company/help.

One other thing, just for completeness: ice on a trip costs money.  If your SailFar approach includes doing things as cheaply as possible, then of course do without.

[CharlieJ]

Please don't misunderstand- when you are coasting and stuff is available, BY ALL MEANS use it- as I said earlier - here on the Texas coast it's HOT in the summer time- hey- it's 75 right now- and cold drinks are NICE if not more than nice.

We went to a WHOLE lotta effort in Tehani to make the ice chest as well insulated as we could, so ice would last longer.

Just don't get into the mind set that you HAVE to have it to go voyaging. Use it when available, but don't lock yourself into having to have it.

[starcrest]

you have to remember that this is definately a "location specific" ideology.I can assure you that there are plenty of eskimos that go cruising with no need to carry ice or refridgeration what so ever.When I left the California coast the water for the first 3-400 miles or so was cold.the perishables lasted longer.when I left Oahu the loaf of bread that I bought was eaten before it could get moldy. and then when I turned east around 46 north-(it actually began to get cold around 33 north)--I was wearing several layers of clothing.no need for ice .the book I wrote about in the book section of this website----"sailing the farm" by ken neumeyer-----gave specific details on something called a "cold ball"----a certain chemical reaction---I believe the term is "endothermic"-----a way to make ice or I should say -"remove heat"- with out refridgeration----it is definately in that book---I remember specifically.Also ---if my memory serves me correctly---this "cold ball" method is nothing new.The illustrations in the book were that of showing how this method was performed before the days of electricity.If I remember correctly---the drawings in the book appear to be of very old times.there is another viable alternative that takes minimal preparation and even Jaques Coustau used it in one of his undersea habitats---- theres the "dry-ice box" alternative.even that too wont last long----but enuff can be carried even on the average small sailboat to last at least 2-3 weeks.I think theres a scientific supply wearhouse called" Edmund Scientific" I think they are somewhere in New Jersey---they market a simple device that gets hooked up to a large co2 tank to condense it to dry ice.I have a small fridge in my boat that runs on shore power.I just wonder if this small fridge can be double utilized as a "dry-ice box" under way.if so----its on the way----not just for cruising----ya see on the east coast -----we have this thing called "hurricane season"--power is lost for days if not weeks--- food goes bad-----people are at each others throats  for ice---theres never enuff------hmmmm---got any ideas????

[CharlieJ]

Starcrest- you must be thinking of a different book. I have Neumyers "Sailing the Farm" (1981 edition) and while he goes into a lot of detail on solar stills, solar driers, etc, he says nothing at all about refrigeration. He entirely ignores the subject in fact.

Excellent book by the way. I've read through it several times. Maybe it's time to study it again- a refresher corse is never a bad idea  ;D

[Captain Smollett]

something called a "cold ball"----a certain chemical reaction---I believe the term is "endothermic"-----a way to make ice or I should say -"remove heat"- with out refridgeration-

Yes, there are a bunch of endothermic reactions; the one I use to demonstrate endothermicity is simply to dissolve ammonium nitrate (34-0-0 fertilizer) in water.  It gets quite cold.  This is what's used in many otc ice packs.  You CAN evaporate the water, cook the resulting solid (to remove hydrate-bound water) and reuse it.  But, this is a small scale solution and would be a LOT of work on a boat.

A better alternative for cooling is a gas absorption refrigerator.  This is the device used in many campers and only requires ANY heat source to work - solar, kerosene, propane, electricity, etc.  It has no moving parts, and is simply a Carnot engine (the added heat drives the engine) that works by the alternative mixing and separation of ammonia liquid and gas and water.  Efficient operation depends strongly on design.

The down side for working on a boat is that they have to be level to work.  I've thought a little about designs that might be adapted - from the basic gimboling to baffling in the coils (which would reduce efficiency).  Also, some people might be a little apprehensive about carrying compressed ammonia on board, but it's a closed system - or should be.  Marinizing the fittings would also be a design issue.

they market a simple device that gets hooked up to a large co2 tank to condense it to dry ice.

Yes, any decompression of a compressed gas will 'cool.'  That's a process called adiabatic expansion, and you can observe it quite nicely with a cold beer on a hot day.  :)  (Ever seen ice form around the neck when you first crack the top?).  Those devices sold by Edmund Scientific are for producing very small amounts of dry ice at a time.  The issues here as a cruising alternative include:

• single use; once that cylinder is empty, it is useless.  You cannot count on a refill at any old port.
• compressed gas cylinders are heavy and bulky; storage of empties wastes space on board
• the compressed gas is expensive

So, it would probably be cheaper and more efficient to carry an electric fridge and a gas gen set, or maybe even an engine driven cold plate if you need a cold box outside the range of block ice in a well insulated passive box.

(I'll mention here that though I seem to be taking a dissenting stance on the issue of 'cold' on board, I agree with CJ and others that it is not really necessary on board).

power is lost for days if not weeks--- food goes bad-----people are at each others throats  for ice---theres never enuff------hmmmm---got any ideas????

That's a social problem, not a technological one.  Ice at that level is a luxury and sadly too many of us Americans seem to think we are entitled to luxuries even in emergency or survival circumstances.

If you have not seen it, watch the movie The Moscito Coast starring Harrison Ford.  It's about an inventor who utilizes an absorption device similar to what I described above to try to 'revolutionize' a rural area in Central America.  It's a pretty good flick, though a bit downbeat.  I think it illustrates how our obsession with amenities like ice is a disconnect from basic survival and is in a way laughable by those living more at the subsistence level.

[svosprey]

Capt. Smollett. I agree ice isn't necesary but it sure is nice to have.

Long distance cruising or even living on the hook for extended periods using just ice for food storage is a pain.

On my boat (Pearson 30) I have converted my icebox with a Norcold icebox conversion kit and also have an Engel freezer. The Norcold unit draws around 4 amps and works well. The Engel freezer is one of the best additions to my boat I have made. The Engel draws 2.5 amps and will keep ice cream hard even in the summer.

I have 4 Trojan T-105 batteries and a high output alternator. I monitor energy usage with a Link 10 amp hour gauge. I have a 100 watt solar panel and an ampair windgenerator so I can usually generate more energy than I use without having to run the engine.

When cruising or anchored for extended periods I use the Engel to freeze my meats, chicken etc and transfer food from the freezer to the icebox as needed. I can carry 3 weeks or so of meat and other frozen items in it. As space becomes available the ice cube trays go in for sundowners in the evening.

This works well for me as I don't have to make constant trips for ice and fresh food while cruising. Of course I still have all my canned foods and provisions that don't require refrigeration.

For weekends or short trips ice or just canned foods do fine but for long term or distance cruising refrigeration makes quality of life much better.

In the next 10 years or so we will probably see some fuel cells of some sort for cruising boats allowing even longer extended cruising.

[svosprey]

Something like this would be nice

http://www.smartfuelcell.de/index.php?id=8&L=1


-100ah a day.

Wonder if they could make one using propane?

[s/v Faith]

Remember the hoop cheese?

Hoop cheese

Many cheeses will last without refrigeration (like many foods found in the fridge).  I came across a new one tonight called 'Hoop Cheese'.  It is a Mild Cheddar, I bough it at Food Lion.  It does not require refrigeration, even after it is opened......

  Well.....  ::)

After these 5 (?) months have passed, the remaining hoop cheese has developed a new personality.  It looked edible, like maybe if you were in the cast of 'Lost' and looking for a way out so I returned it to the grocery store.  The label said it was to be 'sold by: 27/06/06' so I asked what the problem was.

  The manager looked at me like I was nuts, with my half melted block of runny cheese..... asking for a refund.  I explained it had been in a 'cool dry' place, and I wanted my $$$ back.  I really was more looking for an explanation (as though the store manager were personally responsible for manufacturing / marketing the cheese).  Well, apparently the distributor has now said that the shelf life of the cheese is only valid if it is refrigerated...... but still contends that no refrigeration is needed???????/

  So, if you are gonna lay up a bunch of 'hoop cheese' I recommend you eat it the first couple months into the cruise.   ;D

[Pixie Dust]

I have never acquired a taste for black coffee, so for any of you that like creamer in your coffee, the real half and half, I found a boxed one you can keep on the shelf.  This brand is made by Farmland.  Comes in a qt. box and is real cows milk.  It has to be refrigerated after opening.  I had it on *the trip* because I still like the real thing in my coffee if possible.  :)   ::) It has been opened for 3 wks now and I am still using it and it tastes great!  I found it with the other boxed milks in the local grocery stores. 

[Captain Smollett]

My wife enjoys the flavored powdered creamers from Coffee-Mate: French Vanilla, Hazlenut, etc.  Now granted, they are not in the same flavor/consistency league as real cream (which she more than 'enjoys'), but they are pretty good for day-to-day or situations without refrigeration.  I think her secret is to use enough of the powder, as in a LOT of the powder.

It's moot to me; I drink coffee black.  :)

[Pixie Dust]

I like those as well John, but they get lumpy too quick on me if I leave them on the boat.  I am like your wife, I like coffee with my creamer or cream. :))  I just like the creamy mocha color it makes!   :D
Cheers!

[starcrest]

who knows what about  air dryng fish au-natural---that is w/o some dehydrator---that is the way the aboriginal peoples did it----the real way ---whilst under way----I believe it involves an amount of raw or large chrystal salt pellets or the like---this sounds like a good way to preserve fish the real way for long periods of time---sorta like how ancients mummified people---the term "natrium" comes to mind salt from the dead sea---

[AdriftAtSea]

Might want to look at the recipe for Korean Dried File Fish, which is essentially Fish Jerky.  :D   It's an acquired taste... some people like it, some do not... I grew up eating the stuff... being Korean and all.

[starcrest]

I have a standard civilian issue wal-mart dehydrator that consists of a simple electric heater element and several stackable trays.works real good shoreside---but I dont know if a power converter will power it.the power draw may or may not be enough.I remember eating raw fish on the schooner---bit it was actually marinated in lemon juice for quite some time first.ya'kno'----I am stuck shoreside fer' now---but when the time comes----I will make up for lost time in a big way.jus'the thought of pounding headlong into those tradewind seas for days----not fun.it aint all fun'an'games out there.havinta' run up on deck in darkness to shorten sail area--with out heading up----having to reef the main from the lee side---oh-the triton had a marine seagoing toilet----but ya gotta brace yerself while in the act----

[linuxchiq]

I believe the term you want is natron, a mineral abundant in the Wadi Natrun in Egypt.

There is a book called The Intricate Art Living Afloat by Clare Allcard which (if memory serves) has a very good description of the process of preserving fish.