Weighted down, where do you put it all?

[Zen]

I notice that Zen doesn't how he stores stuff on s/v Zen...but he did say that his boat has a TARDIS modification, so space shouldn't be an issue for him.  ;)  Besides, he'll be too busy teaching sailing to go cruising now...  ;)

:D
That is because right now, There is only hanging out stuff on there. I have given some thought to what goes where. I do have a fair about of storage when done right, even without the TARDIS module.

I plan on keeping things fairly basic, but not spartain. I am picking up tips from the masters here as time goes by.  ;D

[Norm]

Greetings to all
Just back from the sunny Caribbean.  Thought I'd share some of my findings about food and the weights thereof.

We overprovisioned by about 2/3rds.  I had about 300 lbs of food stores.  Maybe we ate 100 lbs.  I gave the rest away on the dock in San Juan to a sailor with a 50 footer.

The fact is that we had some very rough weather when cooking was nearly imposssible.  Secondarily, the process of preparing, cooking, serving, and cleaning meals was too much work.  Small snacks sufficed.  One "real" meal was served most every day.  We all were healthy and no one lost weight.

I estimate we used half of a 10 lb propane tank worth of cooking gas.  There was a spare.

Water:  we cruised through 110 gallons in 15 days.  We each took two showers, washed dishes half the trip in fresh water, and drank tea, cofffee, gatorade mix, etc as often as we liked.

The galley was not set up with a salt water pump.  A VERY serious shortcoming.  Not my boat... just the delivery skipper... excuse for me.

We burned a lot of fuel, 31 gallons, motoring almost 100 hrs at about 4 knots.  Some of the fuel was used to charge the reefer cold plates.  Most was burned because the boat would not sail to windward in light air.

Take-aways: 
Salt water service in the head and galley is essential.
Reefers are non-essential.
Plan to eat everything out of a big mug using a big spoon.
15 days x 3 persons = 45 person-days consumed about 100 lbs of food.
water requirements fall between 1 and 2 gallons per day per person.
sails and sailing ability are essential.
Simplify every system.

Finally:  The coastal cruising/charterboat layout of the boat was unsuited for offshore work.  The boat ( 1994 Beneteau 352) was a seaworthy boat that took us through some of the worst weather and seas I have ever experienced. 

Thirty five feet is WAY MORE boat than two-- or even three--- people need to be comfortable off shore.

It was a fun trip.  I hope the information helps someone.

Norman
Boston

[AdriftAtSea]

Welcome back Norm.  Glad it went well. The weather this fall has been pretty amazing sailing weather for the most part.  Unfortunately, my season was cut a bit short. :(  The storms have been pretty amazing too, but a bit unexpected.

[Pixie Dust]

Sounds like a great trip Norm!  Good info to know.  When provisioning, I have sometimes figured it to the exact amt and I have also over figured it.  I guess I would rather over than under.  :o
Glad you had a good trip.

[Oldrig]

Lots of good info, Norm. Sounds like the delivery worked out well.

BTW, have you ever tried the self-heating meals (sorry, I forgot the name of the well-known maker right now)? I was given a sample and used it once when I discovered that my ancient Kenyon alcohol stove wouldn't work.

These are standard, backpacking-type freeze-dried meals which, frankly, don't taste all thata great. But they're packaged with a special water-activated heating pad and marketed specifically for use when offshore sailing in weather too rough to use a stove.

Like I said, I had a chance to try one once, and it does work. Might be worth taking one pack of three meals along?

--Joe

[CharlieJ]

We carry MRE's aboard. We've used them once when we were too tired to mess with actually cooking. They aren't what I'd call "gourmet" eating but they won't choke you either. And the enclosed snacks are pretty good anyway

[Norm]

Ready to eat foods have seldom made it into my galley as I am something of a purist.  And cheap. 

MREs do bring down the weight of food stores.  I think the real issue is that one doesn't burn a lot of calories when sailing in temperate climates and therefore one doesn't have cravings for big meals.  Variety matters but volume seems not to.

My crew have, over the years, brought various energy bars which they like.  I find them expensive.  I do have the usual selections of canned soups and stews.  All are high in salt and preservatives.  Prepared food gets VERY tiresome after a week offshore.  When coastal cruising and always a day or so away from a fresh market, what the heck, rip open something quick.

I always have lots of oatmeal + dried fruit and crackers/wasa bread + cheese, PB&J, etc.  These always get me through the can't-cook phase of a trip.  When my son, Andrew, sailed with me a few years ago, he ate a lot of spaghetti-o meals.  His choice and something I must blame on his irresonsible parents!  (chuckles all around parents)  That's about as close as I get to prepared foods.

This is probably more in line with the "perfect boat" discussion but... the galley has a lot to do with how well or if at all one eats.  In addition to a gimballed stove, a gimballed working surface is very useful.  Failing that... a counter with very high fidddles.

Another feature to the voaygers galley must be a cool-dry-dark & well-ventilated space is necessary for storing hearty vegetables such as potatoes, yams, turnips, squash and so on.  More delicate vegetables have to be wrapped and protected from bruising.  If handled carfully, they will last a long time.  I also wash vegetables and fruits with a mix of clorine bleach and fresh water to reduce moulding and kill fruit flies.

Again, ocean voyager versus coastal voyager configurations must be different.  During two Irwin 27 voyages between New England and South Florida in the late 60's we were quite comfortable with a coastal boat.  Two weeks in the ICW can't be compared to the same duration in the Atlantic Ocean.

With some care and planning fresh and nutritious meals are practical.  My last trip involved an uncooperative galley!  And... I had not planned around it, though I suspected some "quirks."  (enough confessions....)

Best regards,
Norman
Boston

[AdriftAtSea]

Dried fruit (my favorites are pineapple and apricots), granola bars, pita bread, cheese, trail mix, beef jerky, pepperoni, and PB & J sandwiches are all great for when cooking isn't an option. 

MREs aren't really food IMHO... they're emergency supplies. 

I'd agree that for long periods of time, pre-packaged foods are a bad idea...since they are exceptionally high in salt.  I haven't had spaghettios in a long, long time.. ;) 

Thanks for the tip on the bleach for washing fruits and veggies....I've been keeping a couple of bottles of bleach on-board the boat, since it is very useful for many things.

My friend's boat has a drop down counter that swings down over where one of the settees is, and effectively lengthens the galley counterspace.  Gimballing it would be tough though.

[LauraG]

Ah! I forget about Pita bread. I usually have tortillas on board. They will keep about 2 weeks in a cool locker.

We eat like Hobbits when we are on the boat.
We have breakfast early, a mid-morning snack, lite lunch, afternoon snack with coffee then dinner before sunset. We usually have oatmeal with brown sugar and raisins or pancakes for breakfast. I carry margarine that comes in a squeeze bottle because it does not need to be refrigerated. I'm sure it will go rancid eventually but a bottle only lasts about 2 weeks on our boat.  Packaged bacon you can buy off the shelf is a little more expensive than deli bacon but it is a nice treat for us so I carry it every now and then. One package will do bacon with breakfast and bacon and tomato sandwiches for lunch.

Mid-morning snack we will have packaged cookies or a homemade treat if the weather is conducive to baking in the pressure cooker. Love that gimbaled stove!

Lunch is usually some kind of sandwich, fruit and chips. I like to carry the chips that come in a can because they take up less space and the chips don't get crushed.  Sometimes we have a plate of cheese, fruit and crackers.  Gouda cheese keeps well unrefrigerated.

Afternoon snack is usually a cupful of trailmix or nuts. And coffee! I'm as regular with my coffee as the Brits are with their tea.

Dinner is usually a hearty meal. We rarely have fresh meat beyond 3 days out. We have had some nice meals without it. We like the foil packed tuna steaks. My favorite is to serve them with butter and herb instant mashed potatoes and canned asparagus. Spaghetti made with a jar of Prego sauce and a can of mushrooms is pretty good. A Greek salad made with pasta, parmesan cheese, marinated artichoke hearts and black olives makes a delicious cool supper. I also take canned ham along and may bake a sweet potato in the pressure cooker to go with it.

I carry a minimum of 1 and a half gallons of water per person per day. That water includes water for washing dishes and a quick shower or sponge bath every other day.

[CharlieJ]

We treat the MREs as emergency supplies also. Didn't mean to imply otherwise.

The last time we ate them, we were offshore on the second full day out, it was rough, the self steering wasn't working right and we were both quite tired, so it was simpler to just use those. They weren't bad but I'd sure hate to have them every day ;)

Otherwise, Laura covered our eating. Although I'd like to restate- we VERY seldom use food that has to be refrigerated other than the first day or two of a trip.

[Norm]

Hi again:
Oded certainly opened a popular topic!  Food is good and we all have experience with it.

I was thinking about the discusiions and have two strong impressions.  I wonder if anyone else shares these thoughts.  Or.... adds others.

1.  Food planning requires careful thought resulting from training or practice. 
In this way it is a bit like everything else in sailing... practical experience trumps theory every day.  LauraG lit up that idea pretty clearly.

2.  Plan on two gallons of water and two pounds of food per day per person.
This has all the hazzards of "averaging" but provides a leaping offf point.  From reading the discussions, I see that my observations about variety versus volume are shared.

All of this is more than just casually interesting for me.  We have the let's-go-cruising plan laid out on the dining room table.  E&I are at the beginning of a three year plan that ramps up training together and ramps down work + shore constraints.

More to follow?  No doubt....

Best, Norman

[Fortis]

The other "most important" thing to remember about catering on board is, and I know this sounds obvious...but people manage to do it all the time, is to BRING WHAT YOU WILL ACTUALLY WANT TO EAT.

I have seen and helped throw out the provisions of many a yacht where the rusty crate of cans of baked beans in distilled guava juice or something had failed to find favour on the high seas...as indeed they would have failed to find favour in your home kitchen. The reasoning of "but they were on special and since we needed six mponths worth of stuff we saved a fortune!" doesn't mean a thing when you go sneaking around the marina at night looking for a dumpster you can add the still unopened crate to.

Even worse is the "new year's resoltuion" method of yacht provisioning.  We had a lady at our yacht club that was going to sail up the east coast turn at new guinea and headaround to Sri Lanka. That was the plan! she had been nursing it for years and years. She finally had everything together to do it...but then she thought, "hey, I also want to lose some weight, quit smoking and give up catheine"
So she decided on a failure proof environment. She bought only brown unprocessed rice and bran , no bleached flour or sugar. Lots of lentil type stuff and a whole host of similar "whole earth" products of goodness, while totally banishing any and all indulgences and vices from her boat.

Three days into her sail, she was suffering huge withdrawal from coffee, nicotene...which plugged in wonderfully with her sea sickness to make life an utter joy.

She madeit is far as syndey (7 1/2 days, the headwinds were brutal) before she was ready to quit. Several days of being looked after by friends and eating out at restuarants and their homes cheered her up and she was ready to resume....though she had not made the connection between her happiness and coping ability at sea...and the fact that she was feeding her body stuff that it did not interpret as pleasurable...Or indeed, worth living for.

By the time she made it into the estuary at Bundeburg she simply anchored int he river and began systematically emptying all the good whole earth goodness staples into the river for the grateful fish.

If she had been out in the ocean instead of coatal crusing she would quite likely have simply been dead, or needed rescue. her body could not adapt to the new food types, the watchkeeping schedule of a solo sailor and the sea motion at once.
her cruising plans subsequently suffered a nearly two year setback.

Do ONE NEW THING until you do it well and naturally. An open ocean voyage is not the place to totally revamp your diet!

There is an old search and rescue maxim: A person can go three weeks without food, three days without water, three minutes without air, and three SECONDS without the will to live.
Be nice to your body when at sea, feed it what it understands to be a reward.


Alex.

[Zen]

good post.

[Fortis]

Having just read it back, I feel I need to appologise for the spelling and some of the poor grammer choices. I was being used as a play gym/ indoor climbing club by my son Miles (who turns one year old in four days!!!) as I was typing.
He is also at the stage where hearing me sing (if that is the word) "Baby Beluga" is his most favourite thing in the world...And I found myself doing so while typing.
It is amazing how parenthood can teach you to partition your brain...I am just not sure I have quite enough of it to go around.

;D


Alex.

[AdriftAtSea]

I think you lose IQ points when you have kids... ;)  My sister seems to have, as do most of my friends with little ones.  I think, from observation, the point loss is greatest during the first four years and then it levels off until they turn into teenagers, where it begins to drop again.

Sailing single handed on a small boat is difficult enough without trying to convert to a very unpleasant and unappetizing diet while learning to do so.  She's actually quite lucky that she was able to still go out cruising. 

[oded kishony]

>I think you lose IQ points when you have kids...  ;)<

I've also been surprised at the losses following my 55th birthday  >:(

How do you know what the maximum capacity of your boat? Does it change depending on expected sailing conditions?

Happy Thanksgiving to one and all!

Oded Kishony

[CharlieJ]

Don't you folks know insanity is contagious?

You catch it FROM your kids ;D ;D ;D

[s/v Faith]

Castaway...

  Hope you are 'out there' chasing the horizon.

Give us an update when you get a chance.  ;D

Well, I am getting ready to leave; it has been a challenge to pack the boat for offshore sailing and carry what I need.  I have a NorSea 27, a true cruising boat of 8 ft. beam.  On my previous boat, a Westsail 32, I could nearly play handball below and store enough equipment for a major league hockey game.  But, times have changed and this is the boat I can truly handle in nearly any conditions.

I have the normal boat stuff, boat tools, anchors and such.  Also have the food and clothes; this all fits.

This weekend, I have ordered an Engel 27 refrigerator, this will be stored in the head area.  I also ordered a Porta-bote because I do not have enough room aboard for a hard dink or a good inflatable ; unless it is stored on the foredeck and I refuse to do that.  I also ordered a solar panel; have three batteries totalling approx. 300 amp hrs. and I carry a laptop, radio/CD, receiver for weatherfax and BBC broadcasts.

Taking up a considerable amount of my extra space is my wildlife photography equipment and pelican cases to keep it dry.  Also have a desktop PC, printer, dual monitors, etc for my photo editing-this will be a challenge to store and a challenge to use away from shore power.

[s/v Faith]

Of course it is not just getting it aboard, but how to get to it.

  Some things you don't really need to get to.  Stuff like that is great in the bottom of a locker.  Other things need to be at your fingertips, AND secure, AND not in the way.

  Couple ideas;

On board Faith there is a good amount of space under the cockpit that is not well used.  I mounted a door in the lower step and a basket allows about 12" x 18" of bottles and large cans.

  I just built a replacement for the top 'step' that allows a couple of additional drawers to slide into it.


 
  Of course a drawer is not the most efficient use of space, but is still the best choice for some things like galley implements and other small items to which ready access is necessary.

  I also like the net pockets I found... now where is that picture..?  (Will edit later to add)

[s/v Faith]

  I also like the net pockets I found... now where is that picture..?  (Will edit later to add)

  Can't find it.  :P

Anyway, couple other projects done to create / increase storage space.

  Converted 'hanging locker' (not too great on an Ariel, maybe large enough for a foul wx jacket or two) to shelves.

  Also used fish netting to enclose area under the v-berth.  Cut access hole from above.  The prior 'open' storage under the berth provided minimal storage, but the net gives a good compromise between ventilation and storage.

  I will try to remember to take the camera to the boat tomorrow and get a picture.