Need some Recommendations

[tafelice]

Hi Group,

Long, Long time lurker wisher dreamer have gotten my feet wet (not
literally) and bought my first cruiser, a 1983 S2 9.2.  Looking for a
few recommendations.  Some items were missing from the boat.

1) Need a VHF.  I saw the NAVMAN 7200 that has the barametric
graphing included to see pressure trends.  Anyone know if this is a
nice feature or should I go for the 7100 and save $50.  We'll have a
handheld as a backup.  But I was hoping to be able to get an
extension for the mike and use it from the cockpit if necessary (the
home for the vhf is about 3 feet from the cabin entry).  Is this
possible?  Is another brand/model better performance/value?

2) Need a GPS.  Recommendations?

3) Recommendations on mounted BBQ, charcoal or propane.  Want a small
one.

4) Got 12 cheapo $5 PFDs on board came with the boat but I'd like an
inflatable/harness combo.  Recommendations?  How many PFDs should I
carry?  There is a lifesling.

5) Was given www.sailorman.com as about the best online all around
value outfitter.  Agree?  Recommendations?

6) It is in N. Myrtle now and we'll be taking it down the ICW to Key West leaving around Dec 31.  About where (and I know there are a lot
of variables and dependings) south of there might we expect to be in
tolerable weather for that time of year?  And since cold weather
sailing won't be a mainstay are there any recommendations for
temporary heat?  (Also, I have two experienced crew assisting me on
this ICW to Key West, if one of them were to drop out would anyone be
interested in coming on that trip?)

7) Any other S2 owners out there.  Anything I should keep an eye on
etc.  It's got the 2GM Yanmar.  Is there an S2 association, is it
active?

There are always other things but for now I need the above.

Thanks for any and all recommendations and I sure am glad to be done
searching, at least for now and actually doing.

Tom

[Godot]

Grog! for making the first step!

As to your questions, I can only help with one...

1) Need a VHF.  I saw the NAVMAN 7200 that has the barametric
graphing included to see pressure trends.  Anyone know if this is a
nice feature or should I go for the 7100 and save $50.  We'll have a
handheld as a backup.  But I was hoping to be able to get an
extension for the mike and use it from the cockpit if necessary (the
home for the vhf is about 3 feet from the cabin entry).  Is this
possible?  Is another brand/model better performance/value?

Graphing pressure trends sounds cool; but I wonder at its usefullness this early in the game for you.  Unless you where planning on an imminent departure for far off shores, I think I would put this low down on the priority list.  Although it sounds like a cool gimmick.  You should be able to get (fairly accurate) weather forcasts all the way down the coast; so being your own weatherman isn't as critical.

The external mike seems to me like a more pressing issue.  Handheld VHF's have significantly smaller range than a fixed VHF with masthead antenae.  I found that in my boat, my cabin mounted radio was very difficult to hear in the cockpit.  Just about impossible with the engine running.  So I picked up an external extension speaker at West Marine.  Now, with the speaker in the cockpit, I could at least hear transmissions.  Unfortunately, I still had to go in the cabin to transmit; which is a problem when singlehanding.

Well, I needed a new radio anyway, so at the Anapolis Boat Show I picked up a new Uniden Oceanus DSC for something like $90.  This is a somewhat older model; but it has the features I think are important: DSC (with GPS input if you ever need to call for help), Submersible (I guess I could mount it in the cockpit if I wanted), one touch ch. 16 & 9, weather channels (and alerts), and memory scan.  Oh, and MOST important, Wireless Microphone Capability!  I'll be able to keep a wireless mic in the cockpit.  This is worth a LOT to me.  (I bought a wireless mic for $80 or so; but it was the wrong kind!  A regular NEW WHAM mic is available on ebay for $45).

[CharlieJ]

couple of responses from MY personal viewpoint-

#1- nice but not needed. Perrsonally I do not buy  equipment that is dual purpose. If one part dies you are without both til it's repaired . Particularly on radios, depth sounders and GPS unit, I want stand a lone.

#2- we use Garmin 76 and have a Garmin 72 as a backup. Both show all the channel markers for major channels, plus ICW markers in high traffic areas. We always use paper charts or interace the Garmins to this laptop so don't use chart plotters ourselves.

#3- don't use one, don't have one aboard, so can't comment

#4-we have SOSpenders we bought on sale. Ours have the built in harness. A little heavy but bearable

#5- Also Defender Industries. Been dealing with  them since the 70s and have always been happy.

#6-  I once had my bedding frozen to the cabin side for two weeks coming down  the ICW in November. A week later was in shorts and a Tee shirt- Ya never know- be prepared for either extreme at least untill you get south of Jacksonville. But then I remember a Christmas day in Fernandina when it was 11 degrees outside, 22 degrees inside the cabin, with ice on the decks and heavy on the anchor chain.

#7 I can't answer at all

I don't know if it's still published, but we used the Waterway Guide, Southern edition quite heavily in our trips up and down the east coast ICW. Nothing much like that on the GICW.

Also, make sure your engine is strong, or plan some offshore legs- not really much sailing in that part of the ICW, unless you have a north wind and a chute ;D

And I'd think REALLY seriously about going outside at Lake Worth at least until Miami-I'll NEVER do from Lake Worth to  Miami inside again unless I am just plain forced into it. One of my old log books comments- " 68 miles, THIRTY ONE bridges, mostly on time schedules.Run time from 0530 to 1930 doing that 68 miles. And you HAVE to do it- not really anyplace to stop (that we could afford ;))

[tafelice]

Thanks to both of you.  That is the second recommend I got for the Garmin 76.  So it goes on my list.  But is that the regular Garmin 76 or the twice+ as expensive chartplotter ones w/color?  Second recommend on the SOSpenders so it'll be on my order tomorrow.

[tafelice]

The ICOM 502 VHF says that you can use the COMMAND MIKE which becomes like a second unit.  I don't think it is wireless but it runs through the 502.  I'm thinking strongly about that one.  What do you think?

Again thanks, tom

Also, how many of those square orange PFD's should I keep on board.  I could use the storage space if I don't need 12 (and I'm bringing my two SOSpenders (wife and I).   

[CharlieJ]

Both of our Garmins are the plain vanilla GPS units. We don't use any mapping units. We have all the charts (NOAA) downloaded onto the laptop that goes aboard. We have interface cabling so the GPS units ( both) can talk to the laptop and show position on the chart on the screen. We also power both with a cord run to ships service. GPS and laptop.

Frankly I don't see the difference in the 76 and the 72. The 72 is cheaper and has virtually the exact functions.

We also carry paper charts for our course, plus a selection of charts for ports along the way so we can get inshore if needed.

[Captain Smollett]

I'll throw in my $0.02 on a couple of these.

2) Need a GPS.  Recommendations?

The Garmins seems to be a popular choice, but there is ONE downside to them for some of us.  That is, Garmin uses a proprietary interface to connect to computer rather than an "open" one.  For us zealot hippie Linux users, this can be an issue.  For this reason, I have chosen to go with a Magellan (with an open interface, so open software exists for it) GPS when I buy one, and know it works with the charting software I have 'cuz CapnK has tested it for me.   ;D

PFD Recommendations?  How many PFDs should I
carry?

IMO, the best bet on a PFD is one that is comfortable enough to wear; it does little good in a box.  As for number, of course, the CG requires at least one per person on board, so there's your minimum.  If you've got the room, carry a couple of extra (cheaper) PFD's for those times when you want to take guests out for a daysail.

5) Was given www.sailorman.com as about the best online all around
value outfitter.  Agree?  Recommendations?

I second CJ's Defender recommendation.  Not only is a well equipped store with competitive prices, but the owner seems like a 'regular guy.'  In fact, we were at one time trying to get him to sit in on a SailFar chat with us.

6) It is in N. Myrtle now and we'll be taking it down the ICW to Key West leaving around Dec 31.  About where (and I know there are a lot
of variables and dependings) south of there might we expect to be in
tolerable weather for that time of year?  And since cold weather
sailing won't be a mainstay are there any recommendations for
temporary heat?

18 Degrees here in SC this weekend, but was 80 just a few days ago.  The weather along the SE coast is going to be hard to predict.  As CJ said, "be prepared."  As for temporary heat, some small boat cruisers swear by the the old inverted flower pot on the galley stove.  It may or may not make the cabin 'toasty,' but it might take the bite out the cold if you have colder weather.

Finally, you can download the Coast Pilot Intercoastal Waterway chapter here:  Coast Pilot Chapter Twelve as well as the Critical Corrections Update.  These are in PDF format.  If you want the December Local Notice To Mariners, you can download that PDF as well.

Good luck, and welcome aboard SailFar.  :)

[Grampian]

More redundant comment about the Carolina coast. We are having about 20 degree nights and 50 - 60 degree days right now. By Christmas it could  be in the 80s or in the teens. Bring foul weather gear and flip-flops. Plan to be surprised.

For your VHF - by all means have a remote mike in the cockpit with the base at the chart table. If something happens and you end up single-handed, you need to be at the controls and to be able to communicate and the base uses a mast antenna for max broadcast distance. Handhelds are a nice toy but not much use for what radios are really for. Plan for the worst. Experience the best.

For a GPS - minimalist is best. The fancier the more liable to break and, fancier costs a lot more.... The GPS tells you where you are on earth. For close to shore or big lakes, paper or vinyl coated charts are best when used with the GPS fix to see where you are in the picture. Offshore, the pretty graph doesn't matter  because it only graphs water.

If you consider a SSB radio because you have the money and the desire to play with toys, you can get weather plot downloads. Also, SSB can give you the ability to get e-mails via the radio. And, SSB is long range broadcasting if you need that. Sailing close to shore SSB is not necessary, just a nice plaything. Also, with SSB, you can practice the morse code they taught you in radio school 40 years ago... :o

Hmmm, never mind that last.... :D :D

Fair winds...

[CharlieJ]

Still working toward getting Stephan to the chat. Unfortunately that's normally a "family night" with he and his wife and kids. He's a bit loathe to chat instead.

But we're talking.

[Captain Smollett]

Still working toward getting Stephan to the chat. Unfortunately that's normally a "family night" with he and his wife and kids. He's a bit loathe to chat instead.

But we're talking.

I can sure understand that.  Ask him what night would be good for him, and maybe we can do a one-time special chat then.

As an alternative, we could do like Slashdot does...we each submit some questions, KR (or someone) picks say the top 10 questions, we forward them to him and he can take some time to answer.  We could use this approach to ask the same set of questions to a number of folks in the marine 'industry.'

Not as down-home friendly as a chat (which does not have to be all that formal...I'm not implying that the only reason we want to chat is to grill him on stuff), but it may be a good middle ground.

So far, I've thought of two specific questions I'd like to ask.  I have them in a file somewhere on this computer.....

(BTW, Thanks, Charlie, for keeping up with this with him).

[Joe Pyrat]

VHF

I've got a Standard Horizon unit.  The performance of these  units will depend more on your antenna location and lack of impedance mismatches in your antenna cable.  Extra feature-wise, it's really up to you.  I got my unit because I like the position readout on it's face, the remote mic and the MOB button was a plus.

GPS

I've got several, a Garmin 120, Raymarine RN300 and a Navman GPS sleeve for my PDA.

BBQ

I like the Magma Kettle BBQ in the original size.  Enough room and still easy to store.  The size you need will depend on how many crew you are going to be cooking for and how often you use it. 

Definitely propane as it's already aboard and saves me from having to store and then dispose of the charcoal, but mostly because it's instant off.

PFD

I've got some of the cheap ones for guests since anytime I'm hauling guests I'm not that far from shore.  For me personally I like the inflatables with the built in harness, but I carry a commercial PFD for the really bad stuff.  As to now many, the answer is variable, you need one for each person onboard.

Useful Web Sites

In addition to Defender
onlinemarine.com   They were $10 more on the Garman 72, but Online Marine has way more stuff.
hamiltonmarine.com  Not cheap but they have stuff you can't fine other places & it's all high quality.
westmarine.com  West Marine is expensive, but a good resource for looking stuff up.
ebay.com   All kinds of stuff, but make sure you know what it's worth before you bid.

down the ICW to Key West leaving around Dec 31

As I write this it's about 6:20 PM in Key West and 72 degrees.  Miami's about the same but Jacksonville is upper 50s.  All of my attempts at long range weather prediction have been a waste of time.  There's an old saying you can accurately predict about 3 days out.  The Weather Channel has a table of averages for each city.  You can take a look at that to get a really rough estimate of what you'll find along the ICW.  I'm retiring on December 31st '07, but not heading south until April '08 from the upper Chesapeake Bay.  I'm still going to hit some cold weather, but it should get better rapidly, at least in theory. 

Temporary heat

I'm installing a propane heater.  It does get cold in the Keys from time to time and since I'm going to be living on the boat, long term comfort is a priority.

Welcome aboard, and hope to see you in the Keys.

[Frank]

Quick repy. We use paper charts and a $99 garmin with an old one as back up.We use a force 10 'tube' style BBQ,small size..way easier on propane and love it.Life jacket=inflatable with harness(small,light,comfortable,stows easy,multitask).Weather site link  http://www.srh.noaa.gov/data/ifps/mfl/GFE/Marine.html   play on it..it'll give wind,wave hieghts,temp etc for 3 days. Best advice I can give...get THEE BEST anchor ya can. Ground tackle is the difference between a relaxing night and 'sleeping with one eye open' (you'll see) and could in the right situation , save your boat.Have fun !!!

[Captain Smollett]

I forgot to mention in my earlier post that I've also bought stuff from shipstore.com  They had something I needed that no one else did (or tremendously beat the price)...I think it was certain very long length stainless steel bolts, but I cannot remember.

[s/v Faith]

I forgot to mention in my earlier post that I've also bought stuff from shipstore.com  They had something I needed that no one else did (or tremendously beat the price)...

  Just took a look there myself, looking for some cleats I have been hunting.  They did not have them, but had a bigger variety then most of the other sites I have visited... Will save that link.

[CapnK]

Welcome aboard, Tom! Grog fer ya! :)

Let's try to meet on your way south, check your PM's...

My $0.02:

1) Remote mic - yes. (The baro plotter does sound way cool, and if I was flush I'd prolly get it just because. :) But, CJ's advice is spot on, too... it would haave to be expendable)

2) Ever one to bargain hunt, I have a Magellan SporTrak Pro - it was a lot cheaper than the comparable Garmin, and has worked wonderfully for me for over 5 years now.

That said, I've heard many compliments to Garmin re: their customer service.

And *that* said, I have never had to deal with Magellan customer service at all. :D

3) Propane for fuel, way better than charcoal. Might not have the same taste, but on a boat in the wind, you're a lot less likely to burn holes in things due to flying embers...

4) Dunno about the inflatable PFD's, but extra cheapie PFDs are like cheap insurance against that night when you just happen to have a lot of guests, and the CG or game warden spot checks your boat. :)

5) Defender.com, definitely.

6) Agreed with above observations - the weather will vary wildly, sometimes even on the same day. Be Prepared. Make sure you have gear that will keep you warm when wet. Bring extra gloves and socks. If you use sleeping bags, try to get synthetic insulation. Last - a Balaclava is great for covering your face, but you can roll it up into a hat when its not so cold. And take plenty of lip balm and skin lotion, too.

7) Extra filters - both oil and fuel, at least 2 of each. Extra impeller or two, also. A spare jerry can of clean diesel. Besides being back-up fuel, if your in-boat tanks are junked up and keep clogging your filters, you can put your fuel-input line straight into the jerry can, so that it won't suck up junk which gets loosened up in the boat-tank after a day or two of waves and wakes. (Hard lesson learned, that one... Fuel filters aint cheap!) :)

And last of lasts -
Congrats on living the Dream! ;D

[AdriftAtSea]

1) Need a VHF.  I saw the NAVMAN 7200 that has the barametric
graphing included to see pressure trends.  Anyone know if this is a
nice feature or should I go for the 7100 and save $50.  We'll have a
handheld as a backup.  But I was hoping to be able to get an
extension for the mike and use it from the cockpit if necessary (the
home for the vhf is about 3 feet from the cabin entry).  Is this
possible?  Is another brand/model better performance/value?

I haven't used the Navman gear much, but have heard some problems with them on other boards.  I do use Standard Horizon, Icom, and Raymarine radios.  The barometric pressure thing sounds like a gimmick, and I'd recommend getting a barometer instead...  If you get a handheld, look for one that can use an external antenna, and get an adapter to fit it to the masthead VHF unit. Make sure what ever you get is DSC capable, so you can connect it to your GPS.

2) Need a GPS.  Recommendations?

Garmin GPSMap 76C is probably a good unit to get.  It has several advantages over the older Garmin GPSMap 76.  The battery life is better, and it has more memory for waypoints, routes, tracks and maps IIRC.   I would highly recommend getting the NMEA 0183 cable for it and connecting to the VHF for the DSC function and to the boat's 12VDC system to power it... it'll save you a lot in batteries over the long run.  If you want a chartplotter, I'd recommend something like the Garmin 498C, which has all of the US Coastal maps built in, and a much bigger screen than the handhelds.  Another one that is a good compromise unit, especially if you want one that you can use for the car as well as the boat is the Garmin 476 unit, which has the coastal maps and US roads built in IIRC.   BTW, I use an older 276C for my truck, and have a 198C on the boat.

Only one major problem with the Garmins is that all of their software is PC-based...only... but they've promised to come out with Mac versions at some point soon.

3) Recommendations on mounted BBQ, charcoal or propane.  Want a small
one.

BTW, some marinas won't allow charcoal grills.  I personally like the small kettle grills, like the Magma, but don't have one on my boat.

4) Got 12 cheapo $5 PFDs on board came with the boat but I'd like an
inflatable/harness combo.  Recommendations?  How many PFDs should I
carry?  There is a lifesling.

If you're going to be spending a lot of time in the harness, get the Spinlock Deckware Pro PFD/harness combo.  It's the most comfortable and easiest to adjust of all of the ones I've seen. 

5) Was given www.sailorman.com as about the best online all around
value outfitter.  Agree?  Recommendations?

Defender.com, binnacle.com, and hamiltonmarine.com (especially for safety gear, like SOLAS flares).

[Fortis]

7) Extra filters - both oil and fuel, at least 2 of each. Extra impeller or two, also. A spare jerry can of clean diesel. Besides being back-up fuel, if your in-boat tanks are junked up and keep clogging your filters, you can put your fuel-input line straight into the jerry can, so that it won't suck up junk which gets loosened up in the boat-tank after a day or two of waves and wakes. (Hard lesson learned, that one... Fuel filters aint cheap!) :)

And last of lasts -
Congrats on living the Dream! ;D

I owuld just like to add alittle something to this excellent advice, based ona recent call out for help...that was sort of 50/50 between hilarious and terrifyiingly stupid and life threatening...
The advice about re-routing your fuel input line to a jerry can so as to avoid contaminated fuel in the tank is good advice FOR PETROL DRIVEN ENGINES ONLY.

yes, we had someone that decided to get over the huge fuel sludge issues in his DIESEL tank by performing pretty much exactly the operation described.

But diesel engines have a line running both in and out of the engine. They take about 3-5 times what they need and then shoot rest of it back into the tank through a second line. I am not entirely sure of the why's of this, but presume it has sonmething to do with needing a certain fuel pressure that far exceeds the volume needed by the engine.

Anyway, our hapless friend only dealt with the input line...and did a fairly shoddy job of grafting on a  flexible hose (Diesel is also far more viscous then petrol or even water, it will escape from lines and joins that are utterly sealed to almost any other fluid or gas).

Anyway, upshot of it all is that he is turning his nearly full but utterly fungal swamp of a fuel tank into a giant capachino machine and the vents for the tank were not in noticeably better shape then the fuel itself.

The system ran for a while but then started doing dramatically scary things before he decided to call for help. (One of the reasons being that fuel levels in the jerry can were dropping at an alarming rate and he thought that it must all be leaking somewhere and getting ready to explode.) Amazingly, he was very close to being right in this conclusi..but not in the fiery bang way he thought of...more of the tank in his boat was noticeably swollen and trying to assume spherical characteristics.

I was the guy that "knew about diesels" on board and got to be the bunny that hopped aboard and took a look to see if there was a way to defuse this pressure bomb. My conclusion was "no" not safely while out there, SO I sealed up his through hulls, turned of his automatic bilge pump and told him to stay out of the cabin as we towed him in. At least that way we would not be creating environmental spills if the tank ruptured from the bouncy tow home.


We now return you to your regular topic.

[Norm]

congratulations for making the plunge into cruising and have fun in the Keys.  I was all over the Keys in the 60s and 70s.

VHF:  I use my handheld all the time.  Didn't spend a lot.  I think of the mounted VHF as a backup.
PFD:  As a sailing instructor, I am in a PFD frequently.  Mine are a Sterns float coat and a Sterns vest.  Simple, inexpensive, and warm/right temp.  The cheap type 2s are ok if you are abandoning ship.  A vest is best for wearing all the time. 

Don't wear an inflatable UNDER your foul weather gear! 

Yanmar:  Change the lube oil and filter frequently for a while, maybe every 50 hrs for the first 200 hrs.  Change the Racor diesel oil filter at the same time.  Don't have a Racor.  Ooops!

Don't forget to have fun, collect stories, take pictures, and have more fun.

norman
boston

[Captain Smollett]

But diesel engines have a line running both in and out of the engine. They take about 3-5 times what they need and then shoot rest of it back into the tank through a second line. I am not entirely sure of the why's of this, but presume it has sonmething to do with needing a certain fuel pressure that far exceeds the volume needed by the engine.

It's not petrol vs diesel; that is very commion for engines that use fuel injection.  You are right on the 'why,' the injectors need a certain pressure to deliver properly metered fuel.

[AdriftAtSea]

The Garmins seems to be a popular choice, but there is ONE downside to them for some of us.  That is, Garmin uses a proprietary interface to connect to computer rather than an "open" one.  For us zealot hippie Linux users, this can be an issue.  For this reason, I have chosen to go with a Magellan (with an open interface, so open software exists for it) GPS when I buy one, and know it works with the charting software I have 'cuz CapnK has tested it for me.   ;D

Just so you know Capn... most of the better Garmins have a serial interface and can use the standard NMEA 0183 protocol.  The low-end ones are USB only, and not designed to interface with other nav gear, and do not support the NMEA 0183 protocols.