Financing the Cruise

[Michael Homsany]

I am going with several fliers stating I am looking for small side work for food or something that can be used to barter with.

Hate to be rude on my first post here, but this is a staggering bad idea outside of your home country. 

In Oceania, if you try to work in a country without a work permit and you are caught, you will be ejected at best.  At worse, you will be fined and if you do not have the resources to pay the fine, your vessel will be siezed and sold to pay the fine.

Moreover, in this day and age, every country in Oceania, including New Zealand and Australia, are notified in case you might go there.  Thus,  you are accorded 'extra attention' wherever you check in as a scoff-law, whether or not you've committed a crime in that country (working illegally).

Working in most of these countries also includes running unofficial ferry services on your yacht, whether or not you are compensated in currency, or in kind, for the service.

Yes, this may not be fair, but there it is.

It is certainly possible to do it all legally (not only ourselves, but other friends have), but it takes a bit of a time commitment (often measured in years), and often a financial investment, in the host country to do so.  People who have specialised skills (sailmakers, riggers, etc.), and where there is no local competition, can sometimes be 'overlooked' if it is done very, very quietly.  For general labour, you are displacing a local person who needs food for themselves and their families.

Addressing the thread as a whole, finances needed are really dependent on whether the sea will become a lifestyle, or if you are going on an extended vacation.

I too, had a grand plan in 1986.  But it's never been easy.  I did a delivery (cash money) early on.  Quickly realised that being paid what amounted to US$0.25/hr (at the time), on a boat with the wet stuff coming in at a horrid rate, that this was not a cost/life effective solution. 

From that time, I've turned wrenches in American Samoa and Hawaii, flogged off hardware, have done financial management stuff in Tonga, ran a gas manufacturing plant in American Samoa, and currently own and operate with partners an electronics manufacturing business in Fiji (Bebi Electronics, http://www.bebi-electronics.com, all the while sailing/cruising betwixt and between.

It's been a grand life (so far!) and no complaints, but I can't honestly say how many people I've met in life that I'd recommend it to.

[Tim]

Hi Michael, welcome to Sail-Far.
Looks like you survived New Years  at the Planters Club ;)
Good bunch of sailors here, they've got some opinions but pretty respectful, glad to have you aboard.

Tim

[CharlieJ]

Second the welcome aboard Michael, We just recv'd one if your anchor lights and are delighted with it.

I think your experiences will make a welcome addition to this forum. Please stick around.

[dnice]

Unfortunately opinions are like.....everybody has one :)

Micheal: Its always refreshing to here a first hand account... always puts things into perspective.

Volks!: unfortunately, handing out flyers is not a good idea...you don't see illegal mexicans handing out flyers for construction work do you? (erm...maybe hanging out at home depot is just as bad?) :o But there are always ways to work illegally in any country... of course there is risk, but if you are taking the risk of leaving without enough money to begin with, then you are probably willing to risk working illegally. you just need to be a little smart about it.

From what I see here, I am one of the biggest proponents of the 'go cheap, go now' way of cruising on this site... with that said, I am planning on having an appropriate amount of money saved up.
I think the most 'sensible' (I've been reading "Sensible Cruising" :) ) way to cruise, is to have money saved up, proportionate to your plans and lifestyle choices.
I am planning based on a $500/month budget... that is only because, I currently live on $500/month quite well (minus rent and the various bills that will disappear once I leave).

So if I want a six month cruise, I should have $3000 in the bank, etc.. etc..
I also think its sensible to have a contingency plan... some money put away, or maybe a credit card, that will secure your boat, and get you home in case of an emergency.

I don't think its too out of line to plan on working illegally in other countries.. but I don't think its smart to make it your only plan. If I plan for a 1 year cruise... then end up spending 3 years cruising by spending less money, and making money along the way, then hey, its all good! But the plan at the beginning should be a solid one.

Not that its not possible... I truly believe if you have the will, and some common sense, you can make it on next to nothing.
But the sensible thing to do, is plan for a cruise according to your budget (NOT planning your budget according to your cruise). If all you have is a few grand, then it should be a short cruise.... Don't plan on sailing around the world with no income or proportionate savings. There is nothing wrong with meandering around the bahama's for a year :D

[Tim]

Though not necessarily cruising, I have traveled around cruising areas some, Bahamas, Mexico, and Central America.  From what I have seen you are taking a risk not just from the authorities but also the local people themselves if you try to work illegally doing work they could be doing. It is a quick way to build up resentment that would travel with you.

There might be some skills that you could bring in that where not available but would be appreciated and bargained for I guess. But you have to be real careful you don't step on somebody's toe, because they could belong to big feet. ;)

[dnice]

Though not necessarily cruising, I have traveled around cruising areas some, Bahamas, Mexico, and Central America.  From what I have seen you are taking a risk not just from the authorities but also the local people themselves if you try to work illegally doing work they could be doing. It is a quick way to build up resentment that would travel with you.

There might be some skills that you could bring in that where not available but would be appreciated and bargained for I guess. But you have to be real careful you don't step on somebody's toe, because they could belong to big feet. ;)

I agree completely... I don't mean to suggest anybody should go to a low-income, bad economy area,(or any area) and take jobs away from the locals... But (as you said) having an in-demand skill in any country does not take away from the locals (generally speaking). then again, having an in-demand skill, will most likely be a good way to get a legit work permit.

Having done construction in New Orleans for years, I have plenty of respect for immigration laws... But at the same time, I worked along side with illegal aliens and they were not taking money out of my pocket. Granted, every country/state/city will be different.. thats why I suggest being "smart" about it. Not only to keep from getting caught.. but also to be respectful of the locals.
Working illegally in any country will be similar to illegal workers here in america... you take what you can get, and you don't complain, and keep you nose clean, and you stay out of trouble...
The people that are hiring illegal aliens are likely to understand what that means, and therefore, not likely to put you into a situation where your safety will be at risk. Of course, again, that is all dependent on where you are and what the specific situation is... Just be smart.

I am only basing this on the reading I have done, and from what I see, there have been plenty of people who have done ok working all types of jobs in all types of countries...I am definately not saying this is the way to go!!!!! I am just suggesting that you shouldn't fear it, and if you are careful and hungry, you can work anywhere.

Or if you were really smart, save the money and leave without having to worry about work :)

[David_Old_Jersey]

Although I have spent a fair amount of time in foreign countries (albeit without boat) I have never worked abroad - basically out of laziness, and of course Visa / Work permit issues  ;D But their are always Western folk "getting by" - although some better than others..........

My plan would be (is?) to work out in advance where you will be able to find work and plan your trip accordingly - and just accept that in some places this is unlikely or only for fellow cruisers. In general the best places to work illegally would be in a western style economy, but not exclusively. And of course you have the opportunity to not only work for other people but for yourself, especially if you are comfortable trading - of course speaking the local lingo is a big advantage, if not essential - at least to improve your take $$$ wise. And just because you do not intend / need to work somewhere doesn't mean not research the place for work opportunities as next year you may do......and sometimes things turn up unexpectedly which would be silly to turn down.

I also would not be afraid to decide that the best place (Dollar for effort / time) to work is home (wherever that is) and to hop on an aeroplane back if no longer in sailing distance. That is something you can plan / research for before you leave. Indeed no reason why hopping on an aeroplane back to somewhere else you already know could not be an option, if the numbers $$$ stack up.

The longer one is in a country the easier it is to understand yourself in practice what is doable and what is not advisable.....hence maybe having places to work on your circuit as returning to areas and people / contacts you know already saves a lot of learning curve.

I've gotta get off me backside myself  ::)

[Volksdraggin]

I have duel citizenship for Mexico so I am not worried about being illegal but I don't mean to come off tactless or even racist, but when I lived in Mexico, I noticed many people who found it reassuring to have a blonde haired/blue eyed person walk their dog down the beach while they cleaned their boat or other trivial bits of labor they needed tended to buy were to shy/scared to ask a local.  I will be stopping near family property about 80 miles Southwest of Cancun where I am looking to go for a month or so before I decide where I plan to bum about next. I have also considered working at resorts for a short period of time to bring in a little income.


Gosh and I figured I was being clever with my little flyer.  :-\  :D

[David_Old_Jersey]

I have never been to Mexico, but if you are a "local" and also speak the lingo that's a big big plus coupled with knowing how to deal with the Gringos (no idea if that is a non PC term  :o) you describe and what they want then could well be onto a good thing........from my experiances of "abroad" foreign visitors tend to trust (and over trust) those of their own foreign nationality or at least those who share a native tongue or are a fellow Westerner........especially those who accidently (or deliberately) isolate themselves from day to day ordinary life and lack the lingo skills and confidence to deal with the locals......not saying this is good or bad thing, I reckon just human nature (I can be as good or as bad as anyone else on this).....albeit, as I said, I have never been to Mexico.

As they say "cut out the middle man"....or be one  8)

[Michael Homsany]

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome, I promise not to wear it out.

Volksdraggin, David_Old_Jersey  has things pretty much sussed in his post about working.

I've been thinking more about the people I know who have survived for long-term sailing (>20 years) without large amounts of cash, or trust funds, and what they have in common.  In addition to what David_Old_Jersey wrote:

...My plan would be (is?) to work out in advance where you will be able to find work and plan your trip accordingly ...etc.

, these are our (this is a joint effort between Kendra and I) thoughts:

First is attitude.  Just like 6 people in a life raft will die in the first week (without teeth marks  ;D ), but the 7th will make it 190 days, not accepting anything less than thriving is key.

Second is personal skills.  All of the folks I'm thinking of are highly skilled in at  least one field, most many more than that.  I'm a firm believer that the best investment a 'wanna-be' cruiser can make is in themselves, not gear and gizmos (but don't let that hold you back from buying our lights, I meant everyone else's stuff!  ;) )!  My Uncle Eddie told me when I was young that if I had a trade AND a profession, I'd never go hungry, and he's been right.

Third is a willingness to live at a level approximating that of locals.  Lots of beans and rice, light on alcohol (a very expensive hole which is all too easy to fall into).

Lastly (at least for right now) is flexibility.  If you are a surgeon, but the only thing open is pouring concrete, learn to love concrete!

[Marc]

I'm beginning to think that I may not be able to make the scoot,  but now my tentative date for leaving on a cruise is mid may 2o1o.  I am planning on taking some cash , have money in my debit card available, taking some items to barter with and doing handyman jobs.  That 's my plan for now depends upon how the lawyers come out.  Marc

[Volksdraggin]

Purchase some gold.  :D

[chris2998]

May I sugest DON'T USE YOU'RE DEBIT CARD because say you go buy something and they double charge you well that money is GONE, out you're account. I would say it would be alot safer to use a visa card or whatever that will be accepted anywhere in the world. I recently bought a book and was double charge now I got it all worked out but learned it is safer to use a visa card then a debit card or you can have a debit card just make sure when it is empty it is empty and have someone back home put more money on it. This is what I plan to do when I take off
not sure how much cash I will have on me I'll figure that out when I leave.

Chris

[AdriftAtSea]

Using a "debit check card" is a really bad idea.  Any losses from a debit check card are far harder to dispute, especially if you're overseas at the time of the loss and the losses are overseas where you are.  The money that is "charged" to a debit card is cash taken out of your account electronically, and gone forever in most cases.  I generally recommend carrying an ATM card, which can be used for cash withdrawals and can be often used to purchase things, but requires a PIN code.  Copying the name, number and expiration date off of it does nothing for most common thieves—unlike a "check card".

[okawbow]

Some credit card companies have "disposable credit card numbers". You can make a purchase online with a one time number, and not worry about someone stealing your card info. I would think there would be a use for one time numbers on a cruise.

[dnice]

I recently got an online-only account from hsbc, (hsbcdirect) it comes with a debit card, and you can move money to and from any bank accounts you have with other banks.

I was thinking this would work out well while traveling.

I could keep my kitty in my main account. Keep all the account info/cards/checks safe at home. Then once a month or so, get online and transfer whatever I plan to spend that month into my hsbc account. I could then either withdraw cash from atms or use the debit card for purchases (or a credit card if need be), with the security of a worse-case loss of one months funds. If need be, hsbc can also cut a check from your account and mail it to you. Deposits are done by mail as well.

In the case of a total loss from the hsbc account, I would still have access to my regular account at home by the usual bank-to-bank transfer, or get something (a card or check) sent by mail.

BTW: as far as I can tell, even the 'debit only' cards, can be used at POS without a PIN... maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't seen an ATM-only card in years :) the debit cards these days work just like a check card, but with the option of using a pin at the store (usually for a fee!!).
Are atm-only usually available and i just haven't  seen them, maybe on an ask only basis??

[David_Old_Jersey]

Then once a month or so, get online and transfer whatever I plan to spend that month into my hsbc account. I could then either withdraw cash from atms or use the debit card for purchases (or a credit card if need be), with the security of a worse-case loss of one months funds.

I was thinking something similar - maybe with a regular standing order monthly transfer from Deposit to Debit card account.....which I could top up online as and when needed. The internet access thing to online accounts makes me nervous when abroad, unless I was using my own connection rather than from an internet cafe.

Was also thinking of having 2 (or even 3?) Debit card Accounts (whether at the same bank or not), so that if I ever lost a card I could still easily access funds (15 years ago I had an ATM eat my card when abroad - really frustrating having money, but simply not being able to access it  :() I haven't had any Credit Cards for around 15 years, but I would probably apply for one as an emergency use only back up.

My plan is also to have my mail sent to someone I Trust back home to sit on for me, but also so that if I ever need a replacement card they could DHL it to me anywhere in the world. I would probably also leave them a couple of signed cheques so that they could Western Union cash to me. But I only have a couple of people I would trust with that one  :P But it is something I have done before when down in Asia for extended periods and works ok for me, as well as opening a local bank account if in an area for quite a while.

BTW: as far as I can tell, even the 'debit only' cards, can be used at POS without a PIN... maybe I'm wrong, but I haven't seen an ATM-only card in years :) the debit cards these days work just like a check card, but with the option of using a pin at the store (usually for a fee!!).
Are atm-only usually available and i just haven't  seen them, maybe on an ask only basis??

In this part of the world (UK) it is now normal for POS to require a PIN. Same in France, can't remember elsewhere in Europe  ???. For a Debit Card to work internationally the bank needs to be part of an international network. IME Visa seems to be the most widespread...........but I have not been to the Carribean. (I can't remember if Mastercard is still seperate  :P but also a good one, not sure whether the US banks routinely have the symbols for these on their Cards - both Credit and Debit).

American Express also now sell "Travellers Cheques" in the form of preloaded Debit cards. I have not used them yet or checked their cost closely, but as usable the same way as a Credit or Debit card (ATM or POS) seem a tempting way of keeping some emergency cash onboard (not sure whether they have an expiry date though  ::)).....even though the downside is no interest on your money.......

[CharlieJ]

Quite interesting is the number of establishments I've seen lately with signs on the registers or doors-

"We no longer accept American Express"

Wonder why?

[Frank]

Different cards charge the retailer different fees.Wondering if amex has upped their fees?

[okawbow]

We don't take American Express, because the fees are close to 5%. That's almost twice as much as other cards. Everyone seems to have a Visa or MC anyway, so we don't lose any sales.