Show me your little Dinghy / Tender / what have you....

[CapnK]

'Butt' Dan, how many people have truly pointy posteriors which poke holes when perched upon? ;D yukkity yuk

Sure, I understand there are bad scenarios possible, but I really don't think it likely that the occasional use of the rolled dink as a seat would make that happen. The inflatable I had, when rolled, was basically a solid mass - pressures on it when rolled never had such a deleterious effect. Ask "Psyche", who bought it - it looked almost brand new. The things are tougher than you would think, or at least than I thought they would be.

And this - life rafts, made from similar or the same materials - think about how tightly they get packed - yet they can sit like that for years, but must inflate and hold air (possibly for months!) when deployed. I would think that those probably get some *serious* creasing, to be able to fit into such a small package.

Anywho - how about some Possibilities, with your concerns in mind: Wayne could put one of the seat slats on the top of the roll, inside the bag, spreading the/his weight across more surface area, or maybe he could incorporate a cushion onto the outside of the bag for the same effect, whatever... With reasonable caution, it wouldn't harm the fabric if it was sat upon. And being up on the foredeck, it _will_ get sat upon, accidently stumbled and stood on, etc etc...

Lynx - That particular day was really light air with a rolly sea, and I was basically on a run - not the best conditions for that boat, only making a knot and a half or two, really slow sailing. I tried running the dinghy far out, close in, off either side, two lines, etc etc, but regardless she would race back and forth as swells passed under her, and then jerk up short and hard against the tow line, almost yanking the CP23's stern around. The kind of stuff where you just cringe every time you hear the snap of the line and the creak of the cleat.

What I really could have used was a 6-8' piece of tubing, PVC or maybe even rigid hose material, so that I could have made a more solid connection between the boat and the dink. It would have been a much better arrangement.

Frank - yer right, and I feel the same as CJ - if it's towed, it's expendable if need be - it has to be.

As an aside, tho' somewhat related - There's a book out there, out of print now, titled something like "The Boy, The Cat, and Me". It's the story of a guy who traveled from NYC to the Keys in a small sailboat (25'ish), way back in the 30's or 40's, IIRC. (I believe Craig/Faith is reading it now.)

Basically, they did the trip well before there was an ICW like we know it today. The funny thing: the 'dinghy' they towed was 15', with a motor. !!! It did cause them some trouble, but a couple of times it helped to save their bacon, too. Neat story, and doesn't have much to do with Frank's comment, but I just thought I'd put this out there. If you can find the book, it's a good one. :)

[WayneS]

Charlie3, it's likely you've taken a look at the Achilles LT-2.  That's the smallest hypalon inflatable I know of, and folds up into a pretty small and lightweight package.  I suspect it might be too small for some small-boat cruisers; probably good for two people and a few groceries.

I enjoyed the "sit on it" debate. 

[AdriftAtSea]

Achilles has a new small inflatable... the LS-R2U, which is the smaller sibling of the LS-R4U, and seats two people.  I just got one back in April at Defender's annual sale.

[CharlieJ]

Actually we are sorta searching for one of the planing boats- the sport boat type, rather than the dinghy type. I hadn't found info on the newer ones as yet. We'll be seriously looking later this year.

Found a Mercury with wooden floors, but it's PVC. We are debating whether that would hold up long enough to make it a good buy. Probably packed away a good bit of the time, it would. But the small Mercury is exactly what I'm looking for- wooden floor, inflatable vee bottom, planing boat.

Of course I'm going to have to sell my 12 foot Achilles sport boat first  ;D

And it fitting two people is fine. Laura is 5'2 and I'm only 5'8 and 165 pounds. Together we weigh less than 275, so a small boat is no problem.

[Fortis]

Ummm...Pretty much every inflatable is a PVC, Hypalon is justa  spray on coating that protects from UV and binds the surface against some abrasion. Want to take an educated guess about how much hypalon coating is left on most boats that are 5 years old or more?
As soon as you need to do your first patch, and they get you to either mechanically (sandpapaer) or chemically (primer) strip off the hypalon layer so your can glue direct to the PVC...that it. The hypalon will shred and peel away fomr that point until its no longer on that pontoon.

Fortunately...You can get hypalon reviver in a can from zodiac/bombard/sevylor. It may even provide a coat to a baot that has never had it before.

Personanaly, I think the best protection for an inflatable is a boat-bra. a giant tea-cosy type cover that the boat wears. made of ripstop nylon with that vinyl inner layer, it weighs almost nothing and protects totally form UV, somewhat form abrasion by sand and such and fom anchoring sealife like barnacles. It also means you can take the cover home and throw it in the washing machine to amke your boat all new and clean again.

Ours was custom made and we had zippered pockets sewn in that hang into the body of the boat. Great for storing stuff (torch, couple of flares, some spare rope, a little double-action inflator and a compass are permanent residence of one pocket. If we could afford it, a hand held VHF would join the list. I am not afraid of dying on my yacht, but the possiblility of motoring back to the boat from some beach party at 2am, not knowing about a local rip, having the engine faulter and being swept out of the bay in the tender is a scenario I would rather avoid. Which is why the front pocket hold the folding anchor and some rode.)

Alex.

[AdriftAtSea]

Alex-

Actually, IIRC, both PVC and Hypalon are coatings over a base layer of cloth, usually nylon or polyester based.  Many hypalon boats are generally made with a laminate of hypalon on the outside, the fabric, and then neoprene on the inside. PVC boats are usually just a layer of PVC-coated cloth, which is why PVC boats are often lighter than their Hypalon counterparts. Hypalon boats do not have PVC in them as a general rule.

A good read on the differences between Hypalon and PVC inflatables construction/features is here.

Some newer inflatables are being made from a polyureathane-based material.  The Zodiac boats made from their Strongan fabric are an example of these.

[Captain Smollett]

Found a Mercury with wooden floors, but it's PVC.

I understand the hesitation to go with PVC.  It will be years, if ever, that we spend long periods in the tropics or with the dink in high UV exposure.  It spends far more of its time folded in a locker or the back seat of my wife's car.

Personally, I am looking at PVC dinks to replace the one I have now (also PVC, being replaced due to size and some other features, not wear and tear).  Everything has to be weighed on a cost-benefit basis, and the added initial cost of hypalon is, to me, not worth it right now.  ANY inflatable dink that is used will get worn and torn and will require repair, so higher initial cost is the key deciding factor, for me at least.

YMMV as usual, but I just wanted mention that I too was thinking about swimming against the hypalon current.  In an ideal world with unlimited funding, sure, I'd go hypalon.  Here in the real world, I have to compromise.

[CharlieJ]

Yeah- my 12 foot Achilles is Hypalon and I bought that boat in about 1980 or 1981. It's still in excellent condition even after being packed away for years. It did travel all up and down the east coast, either being towed behind the tri or upside down on the netting up forward.

But it's just plain too big for us on Tehani. So I'm intending to sell that one and purchase something in the 7 foot range. So far the Mercury looks pretty good for size, weight, features and cost.

[Fortis]

I have spent most of this week performing laprascopic surgery on an older Bombard that is made of Hypalon. I called the official dealership/repair shop to get some advice and was told that they are indeed a hypalon coating over PVC over fabric (I left out the fabric bit in my initial post, it seeemd entirely obvious).
This is why the glue they use for patching s indeed a PVC glue (never contact adhesive).

The varying weights you mentioned have far more to do with the thickness of the fabrics and the type of join, and its assosciated overlap. The machine zipped PVC dinghies made by mercury and quicksilver (same beast, different tag) are lighter because the PVC coating is just plain thinner over the fabric core, and because the seams have virtually zero overlap.

The older Hypalon Bombard and Zodiac boats had hand glued seams and they had a LOT of overlap...like 3 inches or more depending on the diameter of pontoon. there was then a vinyl wear strip glued over the top of the seam to cover and protect it. This is a heavy!

The modern zodiacs have gone over to a propriatery mechanical welding system that does use an overlap (actually it uses a roll-around seam and a cord of something that becomes consumed int he welding process, leaving a seam that "grips" itself and is very strong, efficient and lightweight...Until something goes worng, because you will never ever be able to fix it properly out in the field. (that is if the seam goes, normal patching is unchanged).


Alex.

[Lynx]

When I was in Marathon Fl this March, the VHF said that there was a dinghy found and was looking for the crew. The boat was latter found and the captian said that he had to cut the dinghy off. There was about 4 hrs searching for them. Latter that week there was another 2 dinghy's reported to be cut loose for safety reasons.

If you do loose your dinghy while under way, please report so that there is not a needless search.

Towing a dinghy all the time does have it risk of loosing it. I do wonder how many dinghy's have been lost just because the line was worn due to abrasion or Sun and could have been prevented with $ 30 worth of line.

This raises the question - When do you replace the dinghy paniter/tow line?
In the tropics with poly lines it is recommended to replace (on edit) every 6 months due to U/V damage.

[Fortis]

Well, firstly I would use nylon instead of poly rope. Poly is cheap...that is about the main argument in its favour. If you would buy a ferro cement hull because it is a bargain, then you should use poly rope to tow around expensive gear.

Its a false economy.

Hmmm...I think I am having an especially grumpy day in the light of the dinghy repair failing.

Secondly, there are ways to "tow" your dinghy that radically reduce your chances of ever losing it, and decrease drag.





See, even on a small boat there is a way.
Only the ends of the pontoons trail in the water, it does not twist and drag and bump.  And it will not snap its painter or get wrapped up around a pilon that you have to do a tight manuever around (seen that!).


just a thought.

Alex.

[AdriftAtSea]

One reason a lot of people use Polypropylene for their dinghy painters is that it does not sink, and is far less likely to wrap up around a prop. However, given how weak it is, and how easily degraded by UV it is, it isn't such a great idea for long-term use.  I would recommend using one of the new spectra core lines, like New England Ropes T-900.  It is a bit more expensive than plain nylon or polyester rope, but I believe it makes sense.  I believe that T-900 also floats, due to the Spectra core, and the polyester cover gives it far more abrasion resistance and UV protection than polypropylene line has. 

[Fortis]

Nylon Tow-weave floats. It is what we use in coast guard for our tow lines.

It is pretty UV stable.

I would hesitate to use spectra based product (or even double braid) because the nylon has some shock absorption and stretch...and spectra just doesn't (though it may well be "slick" enough to slip a really well tighed knot).
It probabaly does not make a huge difference, but anything that has some give to absorbe wave shocks and spare the attachment point on the dinghy from just tearing out one dark night rather appeals to me.

If I was towing with spectra or double braid, I would make a catenery weight (does not need to be much 4-5kg would do) and slide it to half-way along the rope. One of the best such things we ever improvised was a fender half full of water. It could still float when it was in the drink, thus not posing a threat when the yacht slowed down and the rope got pulled under, but heavy enough to put a curve in the rope that needed to be unbent before a shock load could be registered.

worked really well, and still finctioned as a fender afterwards (albeit a heavier one).


I like arguing with Mr Drifty, it forces me to consider and weigh my conclusions and assumptions. I just happen to be confident I am right about this one.

;D


Alex.

[cubemonkey]

Interesting discussion here. We don't have a dinghy (yet) for Averisera. I like the pics of your solution Alex. We have a very tight stern as well, and that my do the job. I haven't even started looking at dinghies, so this discussion has gotten the brain cells working.

-elizabeth

[Lynx]

The poly line does float. I have docked and watched my polly line touch my outboard with the prop just 8 inches underwater and the poly line did not get sucked into it.  Nice.

There has been some discussion  on dinghy line streach, The point is - Will the weight of the dinghy actually streach the polly line unless it is Very thin?

I bought this one - 5/8 - 60 feet long to tow my Portland Pudgy in the open water. I keep it close when it gets crowded. Only towed 225 miles so far.
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product/10001/-1/10001/51953/10001/391/390/23

Cheep enough to replace every 6 months.

[tafelice]

I was using a rather large inflatable relative to the s/v.  In open water unable to have it on deck in an inflated condition I chose to tow it.  I knew it had a good chance of being expendable at sea.  I tied it astern crosswise (bow to port rail, stern to starboard rail) with the starboard side of the inflatable raised as high as I could get it, so that the port side of the dinghy dragged in the water.  I also crosstied it so that it would not shimy around.  I can't claim that this is the way to do it but it worked for me.  It took on only a few pints of water with largish following and cross seas.  Honestly I was surprised and thought I was pretty lucky.

that's it.  btw I posted this idea somewhere else but in response to not being able to make decent emergency repairs I offer again the suggestion to jettison the pvc or contact cement patch glue and get a can of PVC pipe glue like a plumber uses.  I like the blue one.  Works great on the  inflatable.

tom
s/v joanie joan

[s/v Faith]

A friend and slip neighbor of mince has assured me that my dingy 'Mr. Smiles' will be a source of misery in the islands.   :P

Denis is a Flicka Sailor, and I respect his opinion.  Anyone made any progress in the quest for the 'perfect' inflateable?

[CharlieJ]

 >:(

No, but I'd sure like to make some progress.

Got to sell my current Achilles 12 Sport boat first though. It's too large for Tehani.

[Captain Smollett]

>:(

No, but I'd sure like to make some progress.

Got to sell my current Achilles 12 Sport boat first though. It's too large for Tehani.

I would like to have found a used one in the size range I want ( 9 ft or so ) to save some $$, as your 12 footer is likewise too large for us.

But here is the 9'6" boat we are buying:  Saturn SD290.

I was hoping to put off the purchase of a new dink at least until next year, but Tuesday's mini adventure makes about the fourth repair need on that boat in about two weeks.  It just was not heavy duty enough for true tender service.

[s/v Faith]

Just a couple thoughts on what is working for us WRT inflateables.

As I mentioned in the 'dingy' thread, I have gone through a small fleet of inflateables.

  One of them was an older Avon Redcrest, that I had hoped would stow well since it has a soft transom.  I was not impressed with the way it stowed, or rowed so I sold it.

  Shortly before Rose and I left on our trip, I was persuaded that the hard dingy we had 'Mr. Smiles' was not going to cut it for us in the  anchorages we were headed for.

  I started looking for another inflateable, all the while getting Mr Smiles ready to go.  I was out on the dock one day, putting a fresh coat of paint on it when the guy I sold the Avon to walked up.  He mentioned that he was looking for a hard dingy as he was now going to be on a mooring.  He asked if I would swap the Avon for the hard dingy and I agreed.

30 year old dingy

  When I registered the Avon, I was surprised to learn that it was actually manufactured in 1977!  It is in amazingly good shape for a 30 year old rubber raft!  I think that Halypon is some pretty amazing stuff.

  It has the older style A-4 valves, and they don't seal too well, but with the caps on them they do not seem to leak.  I have added a couple pumps of air a week to it since we left, but it has never needed much more then that.

  Anyway, I wanted to share a couple of the things I have done to it that have made it much more useable.

Solid Floor

  First, I had a plywood floor that came apart in sections to stow.  It was a major pain to install and take a part.  I was talking to my friend Dennis, and he suggested a single piece floor of 1/4" plywood painted in fiberlass resin.  I took the break apart floor as a pattern, and made a one piece floor that was just about 8" shorter on each end so that it could be installed.  I also cut an oval that was about 8" x 14" near the stern so that I could bail out the water that was bound to collect between the floor and the plywood.

  Dennis was right, and this single modification has made the dingy much more rowable, and greatly increased the comfort for passengers.  I guess the flexable floor absorbed too much energy when it was rowed... it is much easier to use now.  The week we spent at anchor near Beaufort SC we did not even mount the outboard.

Noodle Keel

  Next problem was the lack of directional stability.  Rowing was easier, but a slightly uneven pull would cause you to slide sideways.  I did not want to invest in an add on inflateable keel, so I went to the dollar general store and bought a pool 'noodle'.  These foam tubes are hollow, and will take a piece of 1/2" PVC pipe nicely.  I wrapped the ends of the pipe in a generous amount of duct tape so they could not get to the halypon floor and cause chafe.  I then ran some line down the center and tied it to the lifting eye inside the bow and to the floor aft.  This keeps the 'keel' centered.

  It did work well in assisting tracking while rowing, and makes it much easier to steer when being pushed by my little 3hp johnson outboard.  The benefit that came as a suprise was that it also tows much better.  I guess the 'V' bottom holds the tubes higher out of the water, but it does not seem to drag nearly as much.

The 'Potty Barge'

 

Security

For security, we have a padlock on the motor mount, and one on the motor when installed.  We can attach a light piece of ss cable to either lock at the dingy dock.  I know that wire can be cut, but it is better then nothing which is what most of the dingies use.

Security II (Patches)

  In looking for a patch kit for my spares kit, I learned that West gets almost $70 for a tube of glue and half a dozen patches!  I found another kit they sell for $30, and it comes with the same tube of glue and twice as many patches!  It is packaged in a Grey canister, and if you peel off the 'West' label you see it is actually the 'Avon' patch kit!  For half the price.  So I looked all over for one of these, and found it.  I later came across 3 more in the 'clearance' section of another West store.... I guess they wanted to get rid of the competition for their own kit.  I bought them, and then used the first one to patch any and all spots that looked like they might be ready to fail.  The net result is a dingy that looks like it was regularly hung on a cactus to dry  :o .... hardly the dingy a thief would see much resale value in. (I hope).

Registration Numbers

  Our bow numbers are simply painted on with spray paint.  I see the number stencil packages at West, and see they get something like $30 for them.  I used some extra 3" peel and stick letters.  First I taped off a 4" x 30" area on either side of the bow, then I painted it white (color chosen because I happened to have it on hand.)  I then placed the 3" peel and stick letters on the white paint, and painted over them with grey paint.  When it dried, I just peeled the letters off, and it actually looks great.  A couple months of daily use later, and they are holding up well. 

Oars

  I have a set of the break down, wooden oars that came with the other Avon Dingy I once owned (and R-280).  The problem is that they are in like new condition, and retail for over $150.... so I am afraid to leave them in the dink.  I was going to buy a cheap set of aluminum shaft oars like I had from Mr. Smiles, but even the cheapest set was $22 an oar...   I looked all over, and finally found a pair of paddles at K-Mart.  They had the same paddles ('Sea Clear' I think) in the marine section for $17 each.  I found mine in pool toy section, near the pool rafts.  They were $10 each, and have worked well.  I actually find I like the small 'T' at the end of the paddle, they let me wrap my thumb around them and gain a little control.   I have the good oars stowed aboard if I need them, but the paddles are working great, and I like the way they work.