In Distress...Or?.... EPIRB use & discussion

[CapnK]

(...or should that be "EBurp"? ;) )

Thankfully, an older EPIRB than the one being relied upon (... ::)) still worked, and allowed the CG to make a rescue...

Story here, along with lots of other Eburp info:

http://robinstorm.blogspot.com/2007/07/webexclusive-epirbs-and-sv-sean-seamour.html

[CapnK]

...and here's the log of the vessel which sunk off the NC coast during TS Andrea earlier this year:

http://artseaprovence.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2007/6/27/3049534.html

[AdriftAtSea]

That page is interesting, but some of the information on the page is wrong. 

Not all modern 406 MHz EPIRBs have a GPS receiver... in fact the majority do not.  They've also neglected to mention that EPIRBs are required to have a operating life of 48 hours and have a strobe light, which aids in the rescuers locating the EPIRB at night or in bad weather. 

EPIRBs are designed to float and operate while floating in the water. IIRC, the EPIRB ID is registered to an MMSI as well as a particular vessel or boat. Also, IIRC, an FCC ship's station license is not required for ship's that are operating domestically—but is required for ship's not operating domestically.  Domestic operation is defined by the FCC as:

Ships are considered as operating domestically when they do not travel to foreign ports or do not transmit radio communications to foreign stations. Sailing in international waters is permitted, so long as the previous conditions are met. If you travel to a foreign port (e.g., Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, British Virgin Islands) a license is required. Additionally, if you travel to a foreign port, you are required to have an operator permit as described in Section III.

AFAICT, even if you sail only in US waters, but communicate with a stations in a foreign country—ie. Canada or Mexico as an example—you would still be required to have a ship's station license.

FYI—PLBs are similar to EPIRBs but generally do not have an integrated strobe and are only required to operate for 24 hours.  They are also available with or without an integrated GPS.  However, PLBs are generally required to be held out of the water to work effectively, where EPIRBs work floating on the surface. Finally, PLBs are registered to a single person, with no information about the type of vessel or craft that they may be on—and can be used by hikers, skiers, and almost any outdoor activity enthusiast, not just boaters. 

If you need/want an EPIRB for just a short voyage, BoatUS does have an EPIRB rental program.

[mrbill]

Early this week the local news channel here in New England carried a short story of a single hander rescued off the Bahamas by a passing freighter. He had sailed from the Canaries. They showed some footage of the rescue as well as some footage he must have shot from on board during the crossing.

No details on what happened and why he had to be rescued (the boat sank), how big a boat, etc.

Does anybody have the complete story on this one?

MrBill

[AdriftAtSea]

Are you talking about William Archer??

Here's the story that was on the Lat 38 site.

Meanwhile, near the Bahamas, William Archer, 32, was rescued from his sinking 39-ft sailboat Alchemy on January 3 by the crew of the tanker Omega Lady Sarah. Archer, a Ft. Lauderdale sailing instructor, was singlehanding Alchemy from the Cape Verde Islands, bound for Antigua, when a storm shredded two of his sails and broke his boom early in his voyage. He continued getting battered by storms until he reached the Bahamas, where his engine failed and the boat began taking on water at an alarming rate. Spotting the Omega Lady Sarah on the 42nd day of his ill-fated trip, Archer fired a flare, catching the tanker's attention. After being plucked from his liferaft, which was tethered to his sinking boat, he told the crew he hadn't eaten solid food in a week. He was taken to a Nassau hospital for evaluation and released.

[CapnK]

Bill - Some info here:

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/22573279/

Not sure if there is anything there more than you've seen already.

[polecat]

I'm interested in finding a liferaft rental for the scoot.  any suggestions?  Boat Us has a good program for a epirb and will ship them with a few days notice. I normally don't carry these items but will for the scoot.  I wonder if you have to pay haz mat charges to ship a liferaft? Local Knowledge? What are you other scooters going to do?
jim

[Godot]

I haven't figured it out yet, myself; but will probably be carrying both a rental EPIRB and raft.  And almost as certainly a SPOT, though that will be primarily for position reporting to my family.

[Bill NH]

Check with your local liferaft service facility.  They often have "loaner" rafts that they will rent out and you will save the expense of shipping a raft.

[polecat]

Godot - I plan on carrying a spot also.  Family wants to keep an eye on me  heh- heh.

Bill NH - We don't have any "local" liferaft servicing going on.  This isn't the middle of nowhere but if you go a couple rungs up on the water tower you can see it from here.  Nearest Worst Marine is over a hundred miles.  Good idea though we will look around next time we go south for paint & parts.

I was just interested in making an arrangement early before the rush.  Wouldn't want to bump into a show stopper at the last moment.

thanks
jim

[Navyvet]

If you have the spot and a good dingy, even a bad one, why do you need to play with life raft and a epirb. The spot is just like the epirb but with a better build if you ask me. The epirb is just a general distress radio single that is very strong. Lets face it if you have the time to use a life raft you probally have time to hop into your dingy. When I was active duty we had a guy fall over board and not a soul noticed until muster the next morning (13 hours) this guy had a Spot with him had set it off and the coast guard picked him up during the night "Thank God for inflatable vests." and when we were doing ship over board drills we set up a life raft (now remember Military here) only about 30% of us could get into the dang thing and out of the 30% all of us where absolute misable in about 20 mins. There is no floor in a life raft just a layer of plastic that bye the time your in it is covered in water don't worry they gave you a sponge about the size of your hand to bale... If I may make a suggestion get a cheapy dingy like one from Sevylor fill the air chambers with spray foam (obviously water proof) and us that as your tender and life raft when your done sell it for nothing or trash it when you back and you spent 50-60 bucks for something with a real bottom with sides and if you get a hole in it who cares (holes in a life raft and you now in the water with plastic all around you) still floats and you can actually move it around with a paddle. This is what I as planing on using via dealing with the "top of the line" in the military and seeing just how "great" they really are. Just toss a Mre (10,000 + cal)or 2 in there some water (this is what will kill you before anything else), pin flares and a couple of glow sticks and a hand held radio keep your spot on you at all times make sure your tied off to your boat keep a knife handy and you better off then a dingy. Just thought I would toss my 2 cents in.

[Godot]

Instead of an EPIRB I may look at a PLB.  I have been told (but have not confirmed) that they are just about as effective and the price is lower and decreasing.  I dunno.  If for whatever reason I can't rent an EPIRB (BoatUS is supposed to be a good source) maybe I'd buy one of these instead.  At this point, due to a bunch of mixed reviews, I'm not sure I'm comfortable using SPOT as a primary safety device.  That may change before 2010.

If I couldn't get a raft, that would not be show stopper; but it would make my wife unhappy.  Buying a new marine raft is out of the question.  Too expensive for a one shot deal.  A very quick Google brought up http://www.landrigancorp.com/products-liferafts.htm#rentals and http://www.lrse.com/rentals/index.html and http://www.survivalproductsinc.com/rental.html.  I'm sure there are many others.

It is very tempting to use a dinghy as life raft; but unless it has some kind of quick compressed air inflation I don't see how I could count on getting it inflated in time (most time spent on a sinking boat would probably be concerned with stopping it from sinking; or, if it was sinking very fast, I don't see how I'd have time to inflate a dinghy).  If it was a hard dinghy (with plenty of flotation) or a permanently inflated inflatable (with air or foam), I'd have a real hard time finding a place to keep it.  I'm not towing offshore.

For just a little more than the cost of a one month rental (guessing around $20/day or $600/month), it might be worth considering the One Man Life Raft.   Spending 30 days alone in a raft like this would be brutal beyond belief; but assuming an activated EPIRB would bring help within a day or two, it's better than drowning.  Actually, now that I think about it, in conjunction with an EPIRB or PLB this might be the best SHTF gear to meet my needs.

I'm concerned very much about getting into a raft (I've heard the horror stories).  But when things go FUBAR we can only do the best we can do.

My opinions are evolving and may change, perhaps drastically, in the next 15 months.

(I may need to take a second job to finance this stuff)

[Navyvet]

 ;) Don't we all need a second job to finace these things. I was just trying to come up with a kiss solution for you and one that is much cheaper. I have used the foam dingy before just tow it behind and all I have to do grab the rope cut the line and cry as the boat sinks then pull yourself in and tada back in a boat. Better then nothing (because that is what he had before) and lets face it if your sailing and plan to anchor out you need a dingy so cheap is good (if the dingy grows legs no big deal get another one and go from there) P.S. Friends boat in Lake Erie 2007 not fun to watch he and I hoped in the dingy/raft at this point 2 hours of rowing and back on dry land. The boat sunk in 28 feet of water and was retrieved 3 days later his keel bolts where leaking badly. I heard his pump going asked him about it he told me not to worry(Ya that will never happen again). Someone remembered to grab a gps and mark it ;D

[AdriftAtSea]

The Spot messenger is not a replacement for an EPIRB.  First of all, modern EPIRBs are far more durable and broadcast on the 121.5 MHz SAR frequencies, so that SAR aircraft and boats can more easily locate you. The Spot messenger does not have this capability.  Second, EPIRBs are designed to tolerate far more abuse and hostile conditions than the Spot is. 

If you have the spot and a good dingy, even a bad one, why do you need to play with life raft and a epirb. The spot is just like the epirb but with a better build if you ask me. The epirb is just a general distress radio single that is very strong. Lets face it if you have the time to use a life raft you probally have time to hop into your dingy. When I was active duty we had a guy fall over board and not a soul noticed until muster the next morning (13 hours) this guy had a Spot with him had set it off and the coast guard picked him up during the night "Thank God for inflatable vests." and when we were doing ship over board drills we set up a life raft (now remember Military here) only about 30% of us could get into the dang thing and out of the 30% all of us where absolute misable in about 20 mins. There is no floor in a life raft just a layer of plastic that bye the time your in it is covered in water don't worry they gave you a sponge about the size of your hand to bale... If I may make a suggestion get a cheapy dingy like one from Sevylor fill the air chambers with spray foam (obviously water proof) and us that as your tender and life raft when your done sell it for nothing or trash it when you back and you spent 50-60 bucks for something with a real bottom with sides and if you get a hole in it who cares (holes in a life raft and you now in the water with plastic all around you) still floats and you can actually move it around with a paddle. This is what I as planing on using via dealing with the "top of the line" in the military and seeing just how "great" they really are. Just toss a Mre (10,000 + cal)or 2 in there some water (this is what will kill you before anything else), pin flares and a couple of glow sticks and a hand held radio keep your spot on you at all times make sure your tied off to your boat keep a knife handy and you better off then a dingy. Just thought I would toss my 2 cents in.

[polecat]

I wouldn't recommend using a spot in place of an epirb - but just as a way to let the family follow along.  I'd like to do things  the right way and rent a life raft all set up - inspected & ready to go.
But if these 4 man liferafts rent for 600 a month I'll just buy one & be done with it.  As I'll be needing one for 3-4 months.  Anyone on the net have experience renting one?
jim

[Auspicious]

Just as a thought, how about buying a raft (maybe used) and selling it when you get back?

[AdriftAtSea]

The disadvantage of buying a used liferaft is that you would probably want to unpack it, have it inspected and repacked, and that alone may cost a significant amount.  With a rental, the rental company should be doing and paying for the upacking, inspection and re-packing on a regular basis. IF they aren't you probably wouldn't want to be renting from them.

[polecat]

Just as a thought, how about buying a raft (maybe used) and selling it when you get back?

Ah Hah! - I like that idea.  If all goes as planned I can sell a new one as almost new and unused after the scoot.  If it don't go as planned then I don't care much about the extra cost when I inflate & climb aboard. 
Thanks Auspicious and a grog for ya.
jim

[CharlieJ]

Do bear in mind that there are levels of life rafts. There are the true offshore rafts, but there's also the "coastal" rafts, which don't have all the bells and whistles, are somewhat lighter and cost significantly less ( and are smaller packages)

I recently looked at one that was around 600 or 700 bucks, brand new, ready to go.

[Joe Pyrat]

The Spot messenger is not a replacement for an EPIRB.  First of all, modern EPIRBs are far more durable and broadcast on the 121.5 MHz SAR frequencies, so that SAR aircraft and boats can more easily locate you. The Spot messenger does not have this capability.  Second, EPIRBs are designed to tolerate far more abuse and hostile conditions than the Spot is. 

Someone always brings this up when you mention the SPOT and for the most part it is bogus.  The SPOT can work if you are in it's coverage area which we will be.  It transmits a signal to the GEOS International Emergency Response Center which contacts the appropriate agencies be they shore based or seaborne and stays in contact until the situation is resolved.  Once activated in 911 mode the SPOT continues to transmit a position update every few minutes until deactivated. Battery life is long, mine has been in use for 6 months (although not continuously) and is still functioning on the original batteries so if a new set are installed at the beginning of the run you should be in good shape for the duration.  There is also a reasonable $100K insurance policy for any charges relating to any rescue which goes for < $8 for the first year.   SPOT gives you the ability to do a less than all or nothing request for help.  You can contact your shore-based support without involving the various government agencies.  Oh and did I mention it will let people track your piston?  So if you are suddenly incapacitated and can't activate your 911 function or EPIRB and your position starts to drift around it would soon become obvious to anyone with access to your findmespot page.  In fact when I was approaching Reedville Virginia people came out to meet me.  I was surprised, but was informed that everyone knew exactly where I was.  I had forgotten that there were more people than just my Spouse watching my SPOT track. 

That said, EPIRB systems range in price from around $200 on up with batteries that will operate from 24 to 48 hours according to a quick check on West Marine's site.  If you can afford one go for it, but if you want a solution that gives you more capabilities the SPOT is worth considering, after all what do both an EPIRB and SPOT do?  Transmit your position to emergency responders.  In fact it seems to me the most affordable and broadest coverage solution might be a combination of a SPOT and one of the less expensive "personal" EPIRB systems.  Then, you might consider a SPOT and a waterproof handheld VHF (which is what I have, both of which clip to my PFD). 

Keep in mind that thousands of people successfully sail to the Caribbean every year with no such device and we are not talking the Vendee Globe here.  I, for one, am not heading out regardless of the weather.  I live on my boat and plan on doing so for a long time so putting her in unnecessary jeopardy is not going to happen.