Mounting & use of Jacklines and tethers and sharks. Oh, my!

[OptiMystic]

I think I will continue to sail my N17 in the upper Pamlico and my arm chair out in the briny blue for now. There have been some scary numbers thrown around.

[David_Old_Jersey]

I don't have "the answer" either  :-\ But a thought provoking thread nonetheless.

Me first boat was a 21 foot Corribee and small with it (the price of good looks  8)) - lifelines at well below knee level, main benefit was to use as hand rails / lifelines if on all fours otherwise I just regarded them as potential trip wires. I never used jacklines or a tether, my MO was to crouch when going forward (to lower my C of G) with one hand on the cabin roof handrail. But sometimes sliding along on me bum along the coachroof. When at the mast would always keep one hand either gripping the mast / a halyard or if I needed two hands an arm was wrapped around the mast or if sitting down using my knees. Depending on what I was doing (and the conditions) I may be sitting down (or up and down a few times). As no roller reefing dropping the foresail meant going forward of the mast and quite often this was done sliding along the coach roof on my backside. Not always possible to use one hand to gather in the foresail, but usually sitting down with my feet securely planted and at least one hand was gripping the sail.

But apart from following the maxim "One hand for you, and one for the ship" the other big "safety" precaution I took was situational awareness. Not getting too engrossed in what I was doing by keeping one eye on my surroundings and looking around to be aware of other vessels / wakes and waves and windshifts.

Of course I did not always follow my own "rules" and it is quite possible that I have used up a chunk of my luck quota.....but looking back I am still comfortable with my approach. Probably a big risk of going overboard is at anchor, not only when setting or lifting the Anchor, but just walking around the deck when "safe".

If I had "Liza" again I would want a fixed ladder on the stern (indeed one of things planned for my current boat). and jacklines run down the centre line, Two cos' carried forward of the mast. and short tethers - as in addition to keeping you attached to the boat they are something to grab to try and regain balance, if not too long.

On my current boat (30 foot and heavy / solid with it) am also contemplating a fixed harness point at the bow. And two tethers. Fairly short and very short! Just in case the Roller Reefing (or something) needs work at the bow. or am setting a Parachute Anchor  :o (which I don't have!).

Over amidships and connected by Tether? If it is me alone then I think I am fooked.

[Pappy Jack]

All things being said, I don't think that this is one place to skimp on safety or money. So bite the bullet, spend the money, and do it right... your life might depend upon it.

Fair winds,

Pappy Jack

[Captain Smollett]

Question:

Who here has documented evidence of a jackline/tether failing, of a crew person being lost overboard because a jackline or tether broke?

I've never heard of it - but that certainly does not mean it's not happened.

[Shipscarver]

Well, for what it's worth, the only time the boat took me out for a walk, we were well helled over and I hit the water before the the boat pulled my leash. When I got fished out, the only real visable result was a neon bruise on my leg. But, then again, we were moving slowly, not at storm speeds. It was not fun, although very funny to everyone else.  :'(

[newt]

Perhaps I could maybe add two cents here-
And take this advice for what it is worth- free...
I was a climbing instructor and alpinist for many years before I went to medical school and found out I wasn't immortal. Falls are a big deal in cllimbing, and I have taken two zingers. One 120 feet (talk about the G-forces in that one!) and one about 35 feet. The long one only broke my leg, while the short one broke my back, leg and ribs. The difference was the impact. I feel into avalance snow with the first one, and on flat rock with the second fall. Acceleration is not near a fatal as deceleration impact and being thrown in the water is really a good thing, as long as the water slows us down and not a tether and jackline with no stretch (which probably does not represent the actual system- I am sure there is stretch.)
I feel that this system could be improved in a couple of  ways- somehow designing a jackline- tether system which would either 1. keep you glued to the boat, or 2. eject you far away from the boat that the fall is absorbed by the water and not the tether. 3. design a tether with steps or some way to climb it back into the boat.
I too have looked at the deaths and experience of MOB solo at sea, and I think getting tethered and being forced into the side of the boat/pinned to the hull may be a really bad thing. Perhaps a quick release could be build into the tether.
Finally, I know what I said may be wrong, but there is one way to prove these theorems. We need to go out and at different speeds get in the water with different tether/jackline combinations and find out what works and what doesn't.   I think a gentle slip into the water at slow speeds may tell me alot about my system, and that is what I am advocating. And not alone on the boat. I have some ideas for making a self rescue/MOB, but you can bet that I will not be doing this testing solo... :)

[OptiMystic]

Perhaps a quick release could be build into the tether.

I thought that was a basic requirement; every one I have looked at has a quick release that can be opened even with a load on it.

[Cmdr Pete]

As kids, we used to drag eachother behind the boat with a line tied to a cushion.

If you went faster than about 4 kts, you created your own bow wave making it difficult to breathe.

Something to think about. You could experiment, its fun. Or use your kids

[newt]

Andy,
You are correct, mine does have a quick release.  That does not explain to me why people drown while attached to the tether. >:( Panic? Sounds like I need to get into the water with my tether to find out. I have dived on my boat when it was just limping along, and I learned a lot then.  I just cannot accept the fact that "I will never fall in so I am not going to think about it"  After all we did live MOB drills on dingys. I am just going to make sure my helmsman has a vested interest in my survival.

[Auspicious]

Perhaps a quick release could be build into the tether.

I thought that was a basic requirement; every one I have looked at has a quick release that can be opened even with a load on it.

Not all -- I have a couple with locking carabiners for the harness connection. I don't use them without carrying knife on a lanyard.

[newt]

Another experiment I may do is : how long does a line need to be to grab if you fall overboard at hull speed? I could have this line attached to the tiller, causing the boat to come about and stop sailing. That way you could have a backup if the tether made it impossible to breathe after MOB release and grab the trailing line. (This is not my idea, but it would be interesting to see how practical it is)

[OptiMystic]

I think people don't release while they are conscious enough to do so because they know their best odds (by far) are staying with the boat. Quite possibly many of them were trying to pull themselves toward the boat, maybe even making progress, when they lost consciousness. That's my theory because that is what I would do. If you are single handing and there isn't a boat right beside you, if you release and the boat moves away from you, you are probably done for. I am starting to understand the "really short tether" school of thought.

[newt]

But the short tether is probably what holds your victim  to the side of the boat and causes drowning...what if a tether would have a quick release that would give you 20 more feet- enough to get around to the back of the boat, step into a trailing line with footholds in, and get back on the boat? I don't know, it may not be a good idea- but the only way we can know it to try out various scenarios and see what works.

Bravely looking to go where no sailor has gone before ;)

[AdriftAtSea]

newt-

the idea of a quick release that gave you a longer tether is an interesting one.  You'd probably want a secondary release that would free you from the tether completely though.

[OptiMystic]

newt,

The "really short tether" idea I was referring to is one I mentioned earlier as being suggested by someone on SailNet that makes tethers - so short that you can't go over the side. He was a really strong proponent of the thinking that a tether is supposed to keep you on the boat, not just with the boat. I think there are practicality issues with that and I also would be concerned about the possibility of a capsize in a boat that was righting slowly. You would have to unclip to come up for air and then could easily get separated from the boat. Hopefully, most of these scenarios are pretty far fetched. I think one intangible thing it will do for you to clip in is to remind you how serious the consequences are and help keep you attentive.

[Shipscarver]

I love life's little coincidences! :o
The new issue of Practical Sailor has a review of, "Inflatable PFD's with Harness."
It says, "Any tether that leaves you in the water is too long. Tethers should be short enough to keep the wearer out of the water should he go overboard."
It also seems to validate my old belief that most MOB who drown do so because they are dragged face down (although IMHO most of those are out cold when they hit the water).
Side note: All jokes aside, do you know how to normally tell if a floater (body) is a man or a woman? Men- face down, women -face up. Hey! I said no jokes!

[newt]

I take Practical Sailor too, but I seem to have trouble making this jack line on my Compac 23. The problem is both on the bow- ( how do I work my anchor rode over my dingy with a tight tether to the mast, because the bow pulpit gives me too much play) and in the cockpit (I am thinking about putting eye bolts next to the traveler because I have nothing inside the cockpit that is secure)
I am thinking about modifying a seatbelt device which would allow slow release, but freeze up on  quick release. On maybe like a dog walker, only beefier.
I think that when Practical Sailor spouts dogma like this...well, they arn't being very practical for us small guys are they? :o

[s/v Faith]

  My Ariel has generous side decks compared to many other similar sized boats I have been on.  Running the jack lines down the sidedecks puts them less then 2' from the rail.  If you ran them down the centerline of the boat they will still be less then 4' from the rail (better not have a dodger... a must for small boat cruising IMHO).

  Like I said in an earlier post... even if you ran the jacklines through the 'D' ring on the harness with no tether you are still going to be able to go over the side.

 

The new issue of Practical Sailor has a review of, "Inflatable PFD's with Harness." It says, "Any tether that leaves you in the water is too long. Tethers should be short enough to keep the wearer out of the water should he go overboard."

  I think this was written with 'Sail' magazine size boats in mind.  IHMO it is fantasy onboard a small boat.  The only exception I see is Dave's idea of having a padeye in the cockpit... and that will only keep you aboard if it is down low and the tether is not very long.

[CharlieJ]

Our hard point is in the cockpit, right beside the companionway. It's a 1/4 stainless bow eye through bolted with the back up plate in place. The bulkhead at that point is 3/8 inch solid glass.. With our tethers we can go to the mast, stay in the cockpit or go below and stretch out on the seaberth all while hooked up. While in the cockpit there is VERY little chance either of us will go overboard. The last rearward stanchion, double lifelines plus the bimini frame make a "cage" around the cockpit that you simply cannot crawl out of, even if you tried. You COULD go through over the laz, but the tether would stop you before you reached the stern. So we are only exposed when we go to the mast or have to clip going forward. Then I'll have jacklines running the side decks and a shorter tether.

Of course we have one advantage- offshore there are always two aboard.

[TJim]

My tethers have two ends, one is 6' and the other is 3'.  I use the 3' on deck and the 6' in the cockpit.  I have plenty of room to unhank, hank and stuff sails with the 3' tether and I can't fall off with it.  I have room to move around in the cockpit with the 6' tether attached.  I don't go out of the cockpit without the 3' tether attached when I'm the only one on deck.  I keep the 6' attached when I'm the only one on deck.
This applies for cruising only, not day sailing.