Hard Dodgers

[Godot]

New member Skylark just signed in on the Welcome thread and posted some pictures.  I was going to respond there; but figured this is a more appropriate location. 



I've been wanting a dodger.  If it rains at all and the hatch is even cracked open an inch, the cushions on my dinette/convertable double get soaked.  I've come up with some other solutions to help here; but a dodger really seems like the best bet.  A little shade in the summertime heat helps, too.

With that in mind I've been thinking (can you smell the smoke?). 

I am very comfortable working with wood. 
I am not at all comfortable working with cloth. 
I like the added physical structure of a hard dodger. 
I like the ability of a soft dodger to fold out of the way if the wind is going to really kick up. 
Hard dodgers provide a marvelous place to mount solar panels. 
Soft dodgers seem to more often look right on a boat. 
It would appear to be difficult to get a hard dodger to look half way decent.
Hard dodgers probably last longer.

What to do?

With those thoughts I'd like to ask skylark how his has been working for him.  Any changes you would like to make?  Best feature?  Worst feature?  Would you do it again?  I would really like to know.

Oh, btw, welcome to Sailfar.  And I really like cruisenews.net (I visit there all the time).

[skylark]

Its not easy designing a hard dodger with flat surfaces that fits the style of a more traditional sailboat.  The Tanzer is a somewhat modern flush deck design, so I wasn't so concerned about destroying the lines.  I kind of went for the workboat fish tug look and I am happy with how it turned out.  But I sail on the great lakes where yotty tradition is not that important.  It would be much more difficult if I had an alberg or triton or other classic design, which I consider very beautiful designs (I still like my Tanzer though).

I built a dodger because I needed a place to put a solar panel, I needed a way to get out of the sun, and I needed to be able to leave the cockpit hatch open for ventilation when it rains.

Some things to think about when designing:

Make sure rainwater runs forward away from the cockpit
When sitting, can you see through the windshield?
When standing can you see over the top?
When exiting the cabin, is there a support beam to crack your head on?
Are the handholds in the right place to give you a sure grip the whole way forward and back?
Make sure you can grab the dodger with one hand to steady yourself while steering with the tiller
Make sure the dodger goes far enough back that if you sit in the companionway you are covered from rain or sun.
Build it sturdy enough to sit and walk on.

Some things I like about my dodger:

I can stand up and sail, it gives a good place to hold on to.
Good handholds going forward.
I can sit at the mast with one leg braced on either side and have two hands to haul or cleat off halyards.
I have good handholds the whole way forward and can pretty much pull myself forward while crawling on the deck if I have to (if its too wavy).
I can leave the cockpit hatch open when it rains unless it is very windy.
I have a place for my solar panel.
I can store things next to the cockpit hatch opening inside of the dodger and they don't get wet or roll away.
The weight and bulk of the dodger does not seem to negatively affect the movement or sailing characteristics of the boat at all (I worried about this a lot).
I built a cockpit hatch seat that lets me sit under the dodger in the "driving position" while sailing.
It is a nice place to sit, with your butt on top of the windshield area, and your feet forward on the lower house.
It helps a lot in cold weather to hide from the wind.

Some things that could have been done better:

The dodger is about 2" too wide on each side, I bump into it with the side of my knee and I need a little more room when going forward.
The flat top drips onto the cockpit seat from rain or dew.
The window opening could have been made larger, I didn't really need a 4" framing board along the bottom of the window.
I have to move around to get a good, complete view forward.

Design:

I didn't really draw it up on paper, except for some sketches and lists of measurements. The shape was drawn up right on the plywood, then cut out. There were many many thinking hours spent trying to figure out how to design it. I also looked at every hard dodger picture I could find on the internet.

Materials:

The plywood is 1/2" MDO plywood, the kind with the paper/plastic layer over the wood for use as signboard.
Most cleats are 2"x2" with some 4" framing
I added a few plywood gussets in the corners for strength
Deck screws (I live in a low corrosion area)
3/16" plexiglass windshield and side windows (sides not yet installed)
Handholds are plastic decking material (fake wood)
The adhesive was PL Concrete and Masonry Sealer
Cracks in the framing were filled with caulk (window caulk?)
Latex house paint

Construction:

Use cleats to fasten the plywood parts together. Build a frame inside of the plywood shell. To mount it, use two 2x2 cleats through bolted and adhesive caulked (5200 I think) to the deck.  The house base and deck cleats are constructed at the same angle (fore and aft), so the dodger is carried on deck and slid back to contact the cleats. It was glued and screwed with many deck screws. The windshield was installed with pan head machine screws, no adhesive or caulk. To make handholds, take a board, bore circles into the board at regular distances, make cuts with a sabre saw connecting the circles, then cut the board in half.

[AdriftAtSea]

You really don't have anything in the way of side decks on that boat do you... I guess I'm kind of spoiled since I have a fairly decent side deck as well as the amas to go forward on...

[Godot]

Thanks, skylark.   I have many, many projects in line; but this is something I have been thinking about.

I understand that one of the beefs with hard dodgers is that they are basically permanent windage (although, it looks like yours is removable at dock if a hurricane or something is coming to town).  I've been thinking, though, that with large, removable, windows, that disadvantage could be reduced some.  Big, scary weather coming to town?  Remove the windows and let the breeze in.  Perhaps securing the windows in some breakaway manner (velcro??) would alleviate the damage that could occur from a wave breaking over the boat (~shudder~  :o). 

My boat isn't exactly "traditionally styled"; but with the sloping cabin I'm not sure if I could pull something like this off visually.  Maybe a very low dodger with a heavy crown?  I will keep thinking on it.

[skylark]

Something like this might work on your boat

http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/5471/chalupaprep.htm

[skylark]

Another idea.  This US boat was photographed in Australia and was on its way to Chile.

[AdriftAtSea]

Actually, given the angular design of s/v godot.... a hard dodger might look quite nice...nicer than the softer lines of a cloth dodger.   

[Ol' Coot]

A little off track here, but grog to Skylark for posting the link to Chalupa.  BTW, a little dodger like the one on Chalupa would probably work great on Godot also.

[skylark]

It looks like it would be difficult to mount a hard dodger, given the angled deck.  I'm sure it is possible, but you would have to build it on the deck.  I built mine in a workshop and carried it on to the boat.

The only advantage a hard dodger has to a fabric dodger is handholds and the ability to sit on it.  The fabric dodger is lighter and it folds down if you need it to.  Given the shape of Godot, I would use a fabric dodger. 

Get some pipe benders and awning fittings, and make some test parts in electrical conduit.  Sewing is not that difficult once you get some basic instruction on how to route the thread and set up the machine.  Make a preliminary version out of dollar bin fabric and then get someone to use the first try as a pattern for one out of sunbrella fabric.

There is a plan for a pram hood in Practical Junk Rig, if I get a chance I will scan it in.

[Godot]

One of the things I really want the dodger for is to have a decent, safe place to mount solar panels.  Keeping rain out of the cabin is important, too.  And having the hand rails is a significant bonus.

The thing I like about hard dodgers is that I am very comfortable with working wood.  Tube and fabric is a new game to me.

I've actually been thinking of a possible plan that would have a dodger extend to the sides of the house.  The sides of the dodger would be on the same angle as the house sides, and the top would have the same crown and follow the same slanting lines as the house.  When I think about it in my head it comes out fine.  When I think about it while staring at a picture of the boat, I have a hard time picturing it.

Maybe I'll get some poster board and just put together a simple mockup.  That should tell me if I'm on the right track or not.

[oded kishony]

I've wondered in the past why a 'windshield' like the ones on old sports cars, that folds down, couldn't be adapted for use with a dodger? It seem that those flexible plastic see thru things that you normally find on dodgers are fragile and have a short life span.

Oded Kishony

[oded kishony]

I've also seen boom gallows incorporated as part of a dodger/bimini

~OK

[BobW]

Thanks, Skylark, for the link to Chalupa!  I can use that dodger idea for Prelude.  The Columbia Challenger 24 has a flush deck similar to the Cal 20. 

[AdriftAtSea]

BobW-

I take it you don't have much headroom down below.. ;)

[BobW]

Plenty of sitting room, and just a ton of stretched-out sleeping room.   But no, no standing headroom - unless you are very, very short.  ::)

I wouldn't mind having some sort of soft dodger over the companionway to open up the cabin as it were.  It's something to think about and work on.

[AdriftAtSea]

I guess I've been spoiled with about 5' 10" of headroom below.  But you can probably stow more stuff than I can... stowage is the bane of the trimaran...the center hull is very narrow, and doesn't have much in the way of storage spaces... unlike cats...

[skylark]

The flush deck boats have lots of room below.  That is the big benefit of flush deck designs.  My boat feels like an apartment, I even have room to hang a hammock.  One down side is that it is hard to find a place to grab when going forward.  Before I built my dodger, I always had to go from the cockpit to the mast in one sprint because there were no convenient handholds along the way. Now I have the best of both worlds with lots of room below and plenty of hand holds the whole way to the mast.

[skylark]

Back to hard dodgers...

http://www.writebyte.net/writebyte.dll/GetPage?PageId=HardDodger

[CapnK]

Gotta say that I like the dodger on Skylark much, much better than the one on Wrytebyte. Regardless of a boats design, things added to it should, well, add  :) to the appearance. Paul did a great job of that.

Adam - to me it looks like the best way to go will be with a dodger which mimics your house lines, which will almost certainly be a tube/fabric construct, unless you get into some pretty serious cold molding. The shape of the house on Godot is very similar to the shape of most canvas dodgers already, it seems like it would be a natural fit. :)

Oded - I saw a link to a company based in the NE (IIRC) who is making dodgers that the different sections can be folded up/down independently of each other. Sounds kind of like what you are talking about. I'll see if I can find that link...

[CapnK]

Here 'tis -

http://www.geminicanvas.com/cuttingedge1.htm