Getting high... Mast steps, and other methods of going aloft.

[Bill NH]

Since I primarily sail singlehanded and also have an extensive climbing background, I've moved away from a bosun's chair to a climbing harness and a pair of Petzl Basic ascenders with etriers (webbing foot-ladders) attached to each.  I use a webbing runner from the harness to each ascender, and with feet in the etriers can pop up the mast in half the time that a gorilla could winch me up.  It's ideal when you don't have a (dependable) person to help on deck, and by running the ascenders on two different tied-off halyards (jib and spinnaker, for ex) you have built-in redundancy.

Several decades ago many practices in climbing were borrowed from the sailing world...  today we're starting to see good ideas, techniques and gear flowing the other way!

[AdriftAtSea]

Bill-

That's basically what the ATN Top climber is....  The climbing harness I use is made by Petzl, as is the sailing harness I use.  :) Spinlock makes their deck harnesses in a joint venture with Petzl. :)

[CapnK]

Disagreement time again! Woo-hoo!  ;D ;D ;D

Climbing a line stretched between deck and masthead while underway is *extremely* difficult, and that is actually an understatement, IMCO, because of my own personal, direct experience in trying it.

I have to ask - has anyone else ever actually attempted it, in any appreciable seaway?

I have - using a pair of Petzl ascenders, with a Black Diamond climbing harness - and you simply get battered, within feet of the deck. These were mere 2-3' roll-y seas. There is no way to both hang on to something solid (to keep from swinging) and climb at the same time. Traveling perhaps 6-8' vertically and back down again took me 20+ exhausting cursing swinging bruising minutes, so making it to the masthead and back down was well nigh impossible. I *might* have been able to do it, had you pointed a gun at me. Might. But even then, I doubt it. Perhaps a world-class gymnast might be able to do it, but even they would suffer many bodily indignities and take quite a while, I'd wager. :D

Think about it - 150+ pounds suspended on a line that on any of our boats will likely be in excess of 25' long - there is no way to get it taut enough to keep it from snapping you back and forth. Maybe if you use a large diameter line, and put it under truly enormous tension, maybe then it might prove stable enough. But even then, I doubt it.

Just go try it sometime. :)

Regarding corrosion at the steps - yes, it's certainly a possibility. Just as is corrosion from a number of other things likely bolted, screwed, or riveted to your spar. Having an easy way to go aloft frequently and check on said fittings (as well as the components and rig themselves) is to my mind a good trade-off.

One of the reasons I chose my boat is that the spar is wa-a-ay oversized (Ariels have the same mast and rigging that the Triton uses, at nearly double the displacement), and so there is a very large safety/strength factor built in.

Plus - If you are in conditions that are capable of snapping your well-attended spar, I think it will be more likely to fold at the spreaders, where the compressive forces are located *and* the holes in the spar wall are much larger.

Everythings a gamble, and a trade-off, eh? :)

Ideally, I would be in the type of physical shape where I could simply shinny up the mast, but, being on the backside of 4 decades now, that possibility will likely remain a remote fancy. :D

I've seen boats with ratlines to the spreaders, and steps beyond that. To me, that seems the ideal compromise, and I'll be testing it on my boat. Especially before putting steps all the way down to deck level.

[Bill NH]

That's basically what the ATN Top climber is.... 

Similar, but not the same.  The topclimber has both feet on the same ascender, and the bosun's chair on the second.  In glacier travel a similar rig (harness instead of seat) is known as "Texas prussics" (although what connection Texas could have to glaciers totally escapes me).  When ascending with a topclimber you first raise your feet, then stand up in the loops and slide up the seat ascender, and continue alternating feet, stand, feet, stand, etc.

My system is based more on big wall climbing, with one foot in an etrier on each ascender.  I have two webbing loops (sewn slings) from the harness tie-in point to each ascender, but these stay pretty slack while I'm ascending.  With my rig I ascend left, right, left, right, like climbing a ladder.

The reason I prefer my system is that I waste very little energy in "body gyrations" and remain upright using my leg muscles.  With the Topclimber one involves more of the core "situp" muscles in the process...  check out this guy fron the Topclimber site...



My system is a bit more complex to rig & use safely with the harness instead of the seat, but certainly isn't rocket science.  Plus (if I didn't already own the gear) I can put my setup together brand new in a climbing shop for less than half the price of a Topclimber...   (like anything else sold for use on boats! ;))

As to the swinging around issue, well yes, it's not going to be easy but if you're going aloft in rolly conditions you probably have a good reason.  You can't rely on halyard tension to stop swinging, it has to be controlled laterally.  In conjunction with my setup described above,  I've used 2 webbing slings & carabiners clipped around the mast and a shroud (or around two shrouds if the main is set) when underway.  It minimizes the swinging and allows me to pass the spreaders by moving one sling above, then the other after the first is attached.  The traditional way (ratlines) is much easier and safer though...  All in all CapnK is right though, going aloft underway is definitely difficult, and I'd prefer not to do it underway unless absolutely necessary.

[CapnK]

Bill -

My setup was basically what you describe, a "DIY" very similar to the TopClimber. Part of the difficulty was in ascending a one-line setup - you can only inchworm up or down so far per thrust, with both ascenders on one line (as is shown in the picture you posted). It takes a while, and is pretty tiring even at the dock.

It occurred to me that having a 2-line setup like you use would be much better, easier, and quicker to use. A line-per-ascender would allow farther travel of the ascender in either direction of travel, and use muscle groups better suited for climbing as well. But the experience I'd gotten of the swinging basically put me off of the whole climb-a-rope idea. The day I really need to get up the mast (and fast!), for some reason I just doubt that that day will happen to be sunny and flat calm...  ::) :D

[Frank]

Capt K....what's this stuff about 150lbs suspended in the air??? try 218 ;D

[CapnK]

Franky -

Clearly you fall into the "+" category.  ;D :D ;)

[CharlieJ]

 ;D ;D ;D

That's why LAURA goes up and *I* do the hauling

;D ;D ;D

Her 108 pounds is way easier to get aloft

[CapnK]

Well, I just read today about this guy named Francis Joyon ascending his spar recently.


Actually, he went up it *twice*, while at sea.



Oh - it's a 105' tall spar.

:o



And he did this while setting a new singlehanded circumnavigation record - 57:13:34:06 - which included a new record for farthest day as well 614nm/675.4sm... :)

8)

Some people... ;)

http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/auto/newsdesk/20080014102603ymnews.html

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5ihqQ9BEZ1zPQzXKlU-kOfFLEaYNQ

[AdriftAtSea]

And he did it on a boat with training hulls... :)

[s/v Faith]

Ben, a member here and the owner / admin for SailingPensacola.com had a new take on going aloft;



Read about it here.

[AdriftAtSea]

I'd like to see Ben pull that trick off on a mooring... or at anchor... :)

[Amgine]

I'm quite surprised no one here has mentioned Hervey Garret Smith's Patent Mast Climber. Better known as a rope ladder. (See The Marline Spike Sailor, pg 49 in my copy.)

I made my first one three boats ago. It was easy, the mast head was only 20', but I made it of 3-strand and it was bouncy as all heck. For the last boat I made it in dacron double braid, and other than an unfortunate twist in the loop it was very satisfactory at 22'. The current ladder is 28', a touch longer than necessary, but again it works great.

Just attach it firmly to deck fittings or gooseneck, and hoist on a halyard. Tension more firmly than you would for a heavy wind. Use a harness and your preferred safety technique as you climb the ladder to the masthead (I admit I usually use a rolling hitch on about a 12" tether sliding up the halyard fall, which involves a bit of jigging at the spreaders.) If you're going to be there a while, by all means figure out how to get a bosun's chair up there because yes, your feet are going to get uncomfortable on the 'treads' of the ladder.

It usually takes me about 5-10 minutes to get up to the masthead on this ladder, a bit more getting back down carefully. Longer about the third time I'm coming down for some vital tool I set down between trip one and two (and *that* one was because I forgot the part I was going up there to install/replace to begin with.) It's usually at that point that I sort of regret doing the maintenance aloft without spotters/help. I've never used it in a sea way, but have done so at anchor and tied to the doc.

[GregX999]

Hi all,

Okay, this is my first of many noob-questions I plan to ask over the next few months as I research sailboats in order to figure out what I should look for, avoid, aspire to, learn how to make, etc.

The question is... What are the pros and cons to "mast steps" (steps for climbing the mast, not where the mast is stepped)?

Here's an example:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/displayPhoto.jsp?&photo=5&boat_id=1957297&boatyr=1969&boatname=Alberg+30+%28Yanmar+FWC+Diesel%29&photo_revised_date=1218354926000&photo_name=Mast+Steps

I would *think* they'd more trouble than they're worth unless you like to climb your mast everyday. Wind noise, chances for lines getting caught or tangled, wind-resistance when sailing upwind, creating turbulence for the sail?

Greg

[LooseMoose]

Since we just got dismasted and having to replace our rig we have been spending a lot of time looking at how the new rig is going to be. Short form is the new masts will be free standing.

One of the downsides of going with freestanding masts is we have to give up having mast steps which come in quite handy. We never had problems with them snagging lines or excess wind noise ( stays are much more likely to be the real noise makers in that regard) we had this sort http://foxyurl.com/Nqa but if I were building another stayed mast I'd go with a folding composite sort like this one http://www.maddogoutfitters.com/products/Mast_steps/Mast_steps.htm.

Hauling yourself up a mast and various other cunning plans that involve hardwear don't work as well and when you need t be able to free up a halyard or change a bulb mast steps make it a simple no brainer operation.

Bob

http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
http://islandgourmand.blogspot.com/

[s/v necessity]

Bob,
   Alright I'm going to have to admit total ignorance here (yet plenty of curiosity).  Why does a freestanding mast necessitate giving up mast steps? 

[LooseMoose]

Because the new rig is going to be balanced lug so the masts need to have nothing that will hang p the sails.

Bob

http://boatbits.blogspot.com/
http://fishingundersail.blogspot.com/
http://islandgourmand.blogspot.com/

[s/v Faith]

Bob,

  I went ahead and merged this thread into the existing one.  You may want to go back and read the last few pages of discussion on the merits of mast steps and other means of going aloft.

Hope this helps,

[newt]

Maybe this is a stupid question, but one that came up reviewing this thread.  Has anyone placed cleats on the shrouds on one side and built a rope ladder to the spreader? I am thinking about those cleats that attach over the wire but do not crimp (or weaken) it. That would leave mast steps only from the spreaders to the top, and would leave a ladder that is secure, but could come down and stow away easily.

[Captain Smollett]

Maybe this is a stupid question, but one that came up reviewing this thread.  Has anyone placed cleats on the shrouds on one side and built a rope ladder to the spreader? I am thinking about those cleats that attach over the wire but do not crimp (or weaken) it. That would leave mast steps only from the spreaders to the top, and would leave a ladder that is secure, but could come down and stow away easily.

That's similar to how Yves Gelinas' A-30 was set up on his solo circumnavigation.  He had ratlines on the lowers and mast steps the rest the way.

He made a helmet cam and in his movie, there is one scene in which he filmed while climbing to the masthead.