Outboard motors; Cruising, dingy, tips, maint, & reviews

[Lynx]

If your motor is long shaft/sail drive, it should be the high thrust prop.

I cannot advise on if it is worth the additional cost but a replacement prop and sheer pin would be. I do carry a spair prop.

[BobW]

Well, I agree I should have the high thrust prop.  But I am having a hard time finding one to fit my Evinrude.  The prop is no longer in production so it cannot be ordered through "normal" channels.  As I noted above, none of the four old/used/out-of-production sources has responded to email inquiries.  A fifth source - with the prop listed on their website - responded with an apology that they no longer have it in stock (and haven't updated the website).

I also agree I need a spare prop and shear pin.  I guess I'll order the next best prop that is available.

[AdriftAtSea]

Do you know what the specifications of the "high-thrust" prop were?  It might be available from one of the aftermarket composite prop manufacturers.

[BobW]

Dan - 

The prop I'm looking for is OMC Part No. 392183, 9 1/4" x 6 1/2", for an early 80's Evinrude 6 HP outboard.

Two local dealers told me it has been discontinued. 

Sea-Way Marine in Seattle specializes in old outboard parts.  They don't have the prop, but referred me to:

P.Y. MARINE LTD (PORT ALBERNI  BC V9Y4H6)  (
SCHERMERHORN HARBOR LLC  (HAMMOND  NY 13646) 
CROCKER'S BOAT YARD INC (NEW LONDON  CT 06320-4971)
EAST HAMPTON MARINA (EAST HAMPTON  NY 11937-2069) 

None of them have responded to my emails.

I did find the prop listed on Advantage Propeller Discount Center's website.  They did reply to my inquiry (tried to order it), telling me it is a discontinued item and they are out of stock.

I have looked at every website I could find searching for just about every combination of "OMC Parts," "Propellers," "Evinrude," "High-Thrust," "Discontinued," "Used," and anything else I could think of.  Still haven't found it.

Any other ideas or suggestions?

Thanks.

[BobW]

Decided on a slight redirection.  I have a Mercury Mariner 8 HP long shaft motor.  I'll use that instead of the Evinrude.  I ordered a 9 3/4 x 5 1/2 prop from Advantage Propeller Discount today.

8 HP is more than I need, but the Mariner is in better condition than the Evinrude, has the long shaft, and weighs about the same as the Evinrude.

[AdriftAtSea]

BobW-

I was going to recommend that you look at a composite prop, like Pirahna Propellors.   I know they make a 9.5" diameter x 5" pitch, and a 9.5" d x 7" p prop blade.  I have the 9.5 x 7 and will be trying it later this month, when I put my boat back in the water.  :D 

I've been using a 10" x 9" blade set, but think I might be able to get a couple more knots, with less slip if I go down to the 9.5" x 7 prop.   If that works, I might even order a set of the 9.5" x 5 blades to see if they improve things even more.

Dan

[BobW]

The new prop arrived today!  I'll take it out to the boat on Saturday and put it on the Mariner.

Dan -

I checked out the Pirahna Propellers site.  Interesting concept.  The results of a search for a prop for my Evinrude came up empty.  They have a prop for the Mariner, but the cost for all the components came to better than $140.   

[AdriftAtSea]

Odd.  that was about the price I paid for the entire propulsion kit—which consists of a hub, six blades (two full sets) and a prop wrench. 

[BobW]

The $140 included a hub, 3 blades, and a tool.  Plus shipping.

I paid $68 for the prop from Advantage Propeller Discount (plu $7.50  for shipping).  I'll probably order another one to have as a spare in the not-too-distant future (I lost the prop off the Mariner a couple of years ago, so I don't have the old one as a spare).

[s/v Faith]

OBTW,

  Make sure your spares kit includes an impeller..... I had one for my main motor, but somehow overlooked adding one for the dingy motor... 

  Just a thought.

[klubko]

Hi,
I am new to this forum. I just followed the 'outboard motors' thread, but didn't want to hijack it. We are thinking about removing inboard in our 31', 4.2 ton Hallberg-Rassy Monsun and replace it with outboard (currently thinking about Tohatsu 2-stroke 8HP). We never used outboard to push our boat, so looking for advise. We don't motor much (mostly in/out of berth in tight marina's), other than that we ran the inboard mostly to keep it in shape.
Our biggest concern are waves. Are there any tricks to get the most out of the outboard even in bad conditions? Anything else we should think about?
Many thanks

[Fortis]

I think a 31 footer of that weight is almost totally incompatible with safe and comfortable outboard motoring. There are a few (usually home built form plans) boat builders that use outboards to power boats in this range, but like Bolger (Ugliest boats in the known universe!...And it takes a lot to win that prize away from Roberts) they use a special well or engine platform/engine room configuration in the designa dnc onstruction stage to get the motor in more or less the right place.

Then your problems are all about revs and torque.

Basically, I think you are proposing a bad idea.

This is me, who has specialised in trying some really insane boat building ideas....It is not exactly like I am closed minded to the "out there" in how to do boat stuff....And I think that staying with the low rev/high torque, safe fuel (and if you go over to gasoline you will need to more then triple your tankage for the same range in fuel, a little more in the two stroke), and propellor in the best possible place option is the way to go.

I have some various wild idea on how to dispense with inboard diesels as they are today and how to optimise boat space and efficiency...but at the minute they all cost more then doing it the standard way, and none of them involve slinging an outboard off a bracket on the transom.


Alex.

[klubko]

Many thanks. We really intend to motor only in ports and marinas with the outboard, so we wouldn't definitely take much petrol anyway. We are mostly using the boat as if she was engineless, but we are naturally cautious to take out the engine out.

[CharlieJ]

Well there are several schools of thought on this.

I had a friend in Florida who powered his 39 foot steel Roberts design with an outboard on the stern. He had a center cockpit and it was a royal PITA to use, but it moved the boat ok. He eventually decided to install a small diesel, just because getting TOO the OB was such a pain, not because it didn't work

I had a friend in Florida who powered his 36 foot Piver trimaran for 6 years with a Honda 10 HP in a well in the cockpit, well offset to starboard. He made more than one or two multi year cruises in the Bahamas with that set up and was happy with it.

I have a friend on the east coast who is seriously contemplating removing the inboard from an Alberg 30 and building a well in the lazerette for an OB.

I can't recall his name but the guy who makes the Cape Horn self steering gear used an outboard on a side mounted mount on his Alberg 30,  Jean Du Sud,  during his circumnav and still uses the same set up today.

James Baldwin powers Atom, his Triton, with a 3.5 HP Tohatsu on a stern bracket. He and Atom have been twice around and he often just doesn't mount the engine.

And of course Lin and Larry Pardey sail a heavy 30 footer with no engine at all and have done 2 circuits of the world now, engineless.

We power our boat with an OB in a well I like having it in the well because it's easily operated from the cockpit and the prop is far enough forward that we have little problem with it ventilating. We've run it in six foot seas down wind with no problems. Of course my boat is only 2.5 tons. Our engine is an 8 HP four stroke and fuel consumption is very low. 1/3 what we used with a comparable sized 2 stroke. I'd think a 4 stroke would be the only way to go, but they ARE heavy.


Having said all that, that is a big boat to be running with an OB. If you are really well versed in sailing basically engineless, it should work. Although I'd take a close look at where the thing would be mounted and how you'll be accessing it. starting, shifting running the throttle, etc. Some engines make it easy- Yamaha for example has remote tillers you can obtain to move the one off the engine into the cockpit. But that's an area you'd have to really look hard at.

And I don't think that one engine or the other or even having one at all is a matter of "safety". Depending on an engine isn't being safe- it WILL fail you, often when you need it most. So I'd say analyze your own sailing and make the choice based on what YOU do and how you sail your boat. If you learn to SAIL the boat and exhibit good seamanship in going into places, you should do ok.

It IS a big decision I know, but boy- the storage space you'd gain doing it would REALLY change your cruising abilities :D

[AdriftAtSea]

Welcome to sailfar.net.

A Monsun is a bit on the large side for using an OB as an auxiliary engine.  There are two problems you would have.  The first is mounting the OB in a location where it is low enough to properly work, since the Monsun doesn't have an outboard well or mount of any sort.  The second is getting a prop that is pitched properly a boat of your mass and displacement. 

If you do decide to go this route, I would highly recommend you get a high-thrust version of the Yamaha 9.9 HP outboard, which was essentially designed for use on sailboats and has an extra long shaft as well as a slightly different prop and gearing than most other outboards. You would definitely want a remote throttle and transmission setup for your boat, since reaching down to get the tiller of an outboard mounted off the stern is not feasible or safe.

My boat is outboard powered, but weighs considerably less than yours, massing about 4000 lbs, and was designed for an outboard.  It also has a 20 HP outboard.

Another problem I see with you using a small outboard for powering your boat is that the outboard would be sadly overmatched in any sort of heavy wind or current, and probably suffer in any sort of chop or rough seas. 

Hi,
I am new to this forum. I just followed the 'outboard motors' thread, but didn't want to hijack it. We are thinking about removing inboard in our 31', 4.2 ton Hallberg-Rassy Monsun and replace it with outboard (currently thinking about Tohatsu 2-stroke 8HP). We never used outboard to push our boat, so looking for advise. We don't motor much (mostly in/out of berth in tight marina's), other than that we ran the inboard mostly to keep it in shape.
Our biggest concern are waves. Are there any tricks to get the most out of the outboard even in bad conditions? Anything else we should think about?
Many thanks

[Fortis]

If he had a tri or cat, mya dvice would have been different. The characteristics for pushing a heavy mono displacement hull as opposed to a multi-hull by outboard engine is really markedly different. A point frequently driven home to me by the nearly totallly different engine characteristics between two coast guard boats I work with. Both are fitted with twin 200HP Yamahas with hi torque props (helps with the towing). One boat is a displacement hull with retractabe planning plates, the other is a tunnel hull (essentially a catamaran). Identical engine rigs, comparable ages of hull, both motor setups less then a year old.
TOTALLY, FREAKILY, DIFFERENT HANDLING CHARACTERISTICS in terms of how the hulls responds to their engines and where your power bands and "rough" bands are.

On a different note, While I have a great deal of respect for the gentleman with Atom...I do not think his ways are for everyone. His approach and philosophy of cruising is very idiosyncratic. It works for him, and I admire that....But ye gods and little chompy fishes, I would not do it the same way.


The notion that engines will fail anyway, so best to treat them with bland disregard as if they are of no practical use beyond being an oar to get your in and out of the pen is a very OLD way of looking at things. It is all lubberly, but it is nowadays very obsolete. Think of your engine like a parachute, maybe one that you did not pack yourself. When something really bad DOES happen, sure it may not open, but having it is way better then not having it at all...and you certainly would spend a moment of fall-time wishing that you had either taken the time to pack it yourself or hoping that whoever did believed in it instead of being a fatalist.

Sure engines fail, so does everything else, but if you treat the engine like the same valuable peice of gear that could be a major player in getting you out of trouble and keeping you and your boat alive, then in a situation where all else would be lost...it just MIGHT have a chance of doing that.

One of the best books I can recommend for the old-timey sailing crowd on this is Smeeton's Once Is Enough, Complete with Neville Shute's introduction.


Alex

[CharlieJ]

Quote from Alex-

"Sure engines fail, so does everything else, but if you treat the engine like the same valuable peice of gear that could be a major player in getting you out of trouble and keeping you and your boat alive, then in a situation where all else would be lost...it just MIGHT have a chance of doing that."

Of course.

But I see way too many people who are motor sailors, rather than sailors. They rely on that engine to the exclusion of knowing how to SAIL THE BOAT. And lets face it- on a sailing vessel those sails ARE your primary "engine" the other one is an auxiliary and should be USED as an auxiliary NOT the last ditch safety device- that's your sails.

I see them motoring, with sails all nicely covered,  in areas where if the engine did stop, they'd be screwed before they could do a blasted thing. In and out of inlets with rocks on both sides, around bridges- You have seen them too.

We use our engine quite a bit, regretfully. On two trips to Florida via ICW, we found we HAD to use it- cannot sail in the ICW in eastern Texas and western Louisiana. Plus getting out of our marina entails a 4 mile power straight upwind until you get to wide enough waters to safely sail. But I've always got the sails ready to go if I have to use them. Same as always having an anchor ready to let go instantly. Hedging your bets is seamanly.

And I wasn't trying to talk him INTO doing away with the engine- just giving him something more to think about.

[Cmdr Pete]

Well, I'll say it....

Switching to an outboard would be foolhardy--unless the diesel is shot and there is no budget for a re-power

[CapnK]

If the primary intention is to use the engine for docking situations, or other short-term situations, have you considered an electric motor?

Here is a very interesting thread of a fellow who did it (been a while since he's updated any info, however). He removed a venerable Perkins 4-108, replaced it with pancake electric motors. Neat stuff, and great food for thought.

Taking everything into consideration, if the above use is what you intend, then electric might be the way to go...

[CapnK]

Oh, and BTW -

Welcome aboard! :D