Flicka 'round the world' trip planned

[Lost Lake]

Well I'm not as seasoned as any one of you, I have very little time in my sailboats!

I'm not trying to pick on any one post, but I get the feeling I know how Gene felt before he left.  :(

If she has a wind based autopilot, she should have tried electric.
If she gets new batteries, she should have stayed with the original ones.
If she wants to leave in a gale, she should stay.
Now she wants to come back, she should have gone to a different port.

I'm too green to know half of what you wiser men and women sailors know, so maybe you are all perfectly right, but it just seems more like Monday morning quarterbacking rather than discussing ideas.

I am completely enchanted by the entire voyage, and having her every move second guessed is taking the wonder out of the whole thing.  I don't think anyone here means to belittle Heather or boast about how great of a sailor they are. I haven't met anyone here like that. But I do see opinions being pushed when advice wasn't asked for. I can understand how a sailor who has tens of thousand of miles under his belt may resent receiving unsolicited advice pointing out his perceived mistakes. Again, not me -  I soak up your advice like a sponge!  ;D

I have no idea how far out she is, if someone knows please tell us. Maybe she's only 20 miles out so coming back is a great idea! 

[AdriftAtSea]

Lostlake—

Could you point out the post where people said she should have an autopilot???

Most people were asking about autopilots and whether she had one... and Gene came back and said some very strange stuff about autopilots and sheets... and how they didn't work under sail.

Can you point out the post where someone stated she should have stayed with the old batteries?

Some people asked about what batteries she had, and were curious as to how large her house bank was.  She only had a house bank of 150 amp-hours... which is a pretty small house bank to run lights, VHF, CARD and nav instruments, the latter of which are going to be run 24x7. 

Leaving in a gale, when going on a multi-year journey is pretty stupid IMHO. 

It means you're going to damage and abuse your boat and equipment very early on when it isn't necessary to do so.  As it was, she decided to leave after the worst of the storm had passed. 

The question of what port she chose to return to is a valid question.

Steinhatchee is an upwind beat into seas and wind that puts a lot of abuse on the boat,  Another port may have allowed her to keep making some progress towards her destination, rather than backtracking completely, and put less wear and tear on the boat.

Also, this is a discussion forum... I didn't see anyone attacking Gene or Heather.  I did see some people asking questions about gear choices, and Gene seems to have chosen to take them as attacks against him and his daughter. That was his choice, and it was his choice to leave the forum.   By the way, that seems to be a pattern of Gene's... from the other sailing fora I've seen him on.

[Captain Smollett]

I can understand how a sailor who has tens of thousand of miles under his belt may resent receiving unsolicited advice pointing out his perceived mistakes.

Heather does not have tens of thousands of miles under HER keel, at least not in command of a boat and solo sailing.  She's been sailing about a year (and still taking lessons as late as 2 December 2007), and there is NOTHING on her web site to indicate she has done anything of any distance by herself.

That her father has some experience and helped her outfit the boat is one thing, but he's not the one with the tiller in his hand THIS time; nor is he the one out there making decisions when he's averaged maybe 2 hours of GOOD sleep per day (if she's lucky) for weeks at a time if the weather's rough or crossing a major shipping area.  You know, like the Gulf of Mexico.   ;)

Perhaps what you are seeing here (and on other forums, this trip has made the web circuit like few others) is a measure of CONCERN rather than Monday morning quarterbacking.

I think it is safe to say that most of us here respect her right to follow her path, no matter her experience level.  I think this board more than most is less of the "you better do it my way" ilk.  That said, I think you will notice a LOT of the discussion on here was of the sort I'd call comparing notes.  "Here's how I do it" with the recognition that there is no Right Way (tm).

Gene has accused a lot of very experienced sailors of being wannabees and nay-sayers, just because their experience did not gybe with his or they CHOOSE to do things differently.  Dave on Auspicious summarized this extremely well with his comment regarding each of us having different priorities in the way we solve the various rigging, outfitting and provisioning problems on our very different boats.

Lake, you are of course free to view this board as you like; but, if you give the SailFar group a fair look, I think you will find no other kinder, more open set of sailors with the 'small boat, long distances' philosophy anywhere on the 'Net.  That's my opinion, at least.

Fair Winds, my friend, and have some grog.

[AdriftAtSea]

Well said Capn Smollett.  Have a grog on me. :)

[Lost Lake]

Heather does not have tens of thousands of miles under HER keel, at least not in command of a boat and solo sailing.  She's been sailing about a year (and still taking lessons as late as 2 December 2007), and there is NOTHING on her web site to indicate she has done anything of any distance by herself.

I meant Gene of course, Heather has not been here as far as I know

That her father has some experience and helped her outfit the boat is one thing, but he's not the one with the tiller in his hand THIS time; nor is he the one out there making decisions when he's averaged maybe 2 hours of GOOD sleep per day (if she's lucky) for weeks at a time if the weather's rough or crossing a major shipping area.  You know, like the Gulf of Mexico.   ;)

Perhaps what you are seeing here (and on other forums, this trip has made the web circuit like few others) is a measure of CONCERN rather than Monday morning quarterbacking.

Concern is a good word, I guess maybe I was reading some comments with a skewed view. I stand corrected.

I think it is safe to say that most of us here respect her right to follow her path, no matter her experience level.  I think this board more than most is less of the "you better do it my way" ilk.  That said, I think you will notice a LOT of the discussion on here was of the sort I'd call comparing notes.  "Here's how I do it" with the recognition that there is no Right Way (tm).

Wise words once again Captain Smollett. Grog to you for taking the time to open my eyes.

[Lynx]

I have to say that she has courage to leave when she did, however if she had waited she may have not gotton a better weather window until spring.   This is a common course in Fl and there is a lot of experience that she could have drawn from to get data.

I am waiting to here her side of the story before I make any decisions.

[Auspicious]

I'd like to point out that we don't know what Heather may have tried to do at sea, all we know is what Gene passed along to me in his e-mail. We don't know how much time Heather spend with her head in the engine space. We don't know the actual arrangement of the latch on the hatch that managed to catch and made a batch of trouble (sorry - I couldn't help myself after the first rhyme).

I'd darn sure rather be out there with her than sitting here.

[Bill NH]

I corresponded privately with Gene before he showed up here regarding a technical issue he was working to resolve, and I got the distinct feeling that he wanted to talk about what he was doing but wasn't really interested in others' input...  his choice obviously, and I decided not to try and help anymore.  It seems he wasn't really interested in discussion here either.

I think one of the real values of a board like this lies in the discussion that takes place, the shared learning and problem solving.  Yes, some of us disagree with a number of things Heather & Gene have done and are doing, but I wouldn't expect them to change just because any of us disagrees.  However, I do feel that healthy and respectfully critical discussion helps all of us in our own personal decision-making regarding our own boats and voyages. 

Veteran or newbie, anyone who has an honest question or doubt should feel free to pose the question to the group for discussion.  It's not being a Monday morning quarterback, it's trying to learn from the collective wealth of knowledge and experience here to make better decisions when you're own bacon is on the line.

Personally, I have serious concerns about someone with so little experience undertaking a voyage like this, especially someone who has had so much of the preparation done for her by someone else.  I wish Heather the best, but there's alot about the whole situation that gives me an uneasy feeling.

[CharlieJ]

Veteran or newbie, anyone who has an honest question or doubt should feel free to pose the question to the group for discussion.  It's not being a Monday morning quarterback, it's trying to learn from the collective wealth of knowledge and experience here to make better decisions when you're own bacon is on the line.

Precisely.  I've learned from discussions here, and I started sailing in 1957. If someone tells you they know it all, run. Sailing, and cruising as an adjunct, has far too much scope for any one person to know it all in a lifetime. But we can take things from other's knowledge and apply them to our own situations- and that's the real beauty of boards like this- puts you in touch with MANY like minded folks, so you can share experiences and knowledge, hopefully avoiding some "oopsies" in the process.

[Auspicious]

Precisely.  I've learned from discussions here, and I started sailing in 1957. If someone tells you they know it all, run.

Agree. Heck, I'm just starting to get a real grip on what I *don't* know. <grin>

[AdriftAtSea]

In some ways, she was kind of under great pressure to leave on a timely fashion, because her website and the publicity she and her father have sought out for her trip, have made it much more critical to leave somewhere near her publicized departure date. Given her relative novice sailing skills and experience, the pressure created by her website and the publicity may not have been the best thing for Heather.

I can understand why Gene doesn't participate in on-line discussion forums.  He's not looking for a reasonable discourse on sailing, he just wants validation for his particular thoughts and ways of doing things.  He took every comment, regardless of what the comment said or the spirit in which it was made, as an attack upon himself or his daughter.  It is a very strange attitude to take, especially if you've basically announced to the world what you're doing, the way he and Heather have.

I'm not as concerned about Heather, even given her relative lack of experience, since the boat is a well-found, proven design. If Tania Aebi, at the age of 18, could circumnavigate, I don't see much of a problem with Heather doing so.  In some ways, Heather may be at an advantage over Tania, given her greater life experience and maturity. 

Sailing, like most other worth while avocations, is a life-long learning process.  If you aren't learning something new every day about sailing, then you're probably doing something wrong.

I have to say that she has courage to leave when she did, however if she had waited she may have not gotton a better weather window until spring.   This is a common course in Fl and there is a lot of experience that she could have drawn from to get data.

I am waiting to here her side of the story before I make any decisions.

[CapnK]

<snip> I got the distinct feeling that he wanted to talk about what he was doing but wasn't really interested in others' input... <snip>  It seems he wasn't really interested in discussion here either.

Well, Bill, I think that is a nice and accurate summation. After the fact, I've been sent links by several folks to other forums where the pattern of Genes membership was much the same as what we saw here. Me, I prefer to do things a different way, but... To each his own. :)

While not contributing much to the forum in general, the publicity value and advice they received has been quite beneficial for them at very little cost, so I am sure that Gene has to have been quite happy overall with the results of his brief stay here, and that he can't have much real objection to our little corner of the 'net. Congratulations for that, and... that's what we are here for, right? :) So we did a good job. :) I honestly and sincerely wish Heather the best on her trip, and hope that she benefits greatly from the advice that was garnered here, things like the zip ties, battery situation, Panama Canal advice, etc... :)

Of course, not knowing different beforehand, I was hoping that Gene might find this place to be much like I have - fun, friendly, not too "in your face", and with a wide range of both experience and knowledge that can be drawn from. That he didn't does not, I really don't believe, reflect on us in a bad light at all.

We do have an arena here that was designed quite intentionally to foster discussion of our own particular passion, and whether or not someone finds that to their taste is an individual decision.

I for one have an enormous appreciation and respect for all of y'all who partake in our own kind of give-and-take. :) Thanks, sailFarers!

And a reminder: not everything you read on the internet is true, or even necessarily a complete representation of the facts.

Just because someone says they have thousands of sea miles under their keel doesn't mean that it is so, or that the claimed miles impart any kind of special weight to the things they post. For instance, when discussing storm tactics, I'd much more value the experience of a sailor who'd sailed down and round the Horn once, than someone who'd completed a few tradewind passages. Quality, not quantity, and it's my considered opinion that a good deal of that can be revealed in how someone comports themselves in forums like this one. I've never met a true long-distance sailor who was a real butthead, but I know several weekend warriors who know everything. Or so they think.  ;)

I bring this up because I think it is important that it be noted, especially by new sailors who are seeking to broaden their knowledge base.

Contrary to Gene's insults and implication there at the end of his stay here, I personally *know* that several of our contributors in this thread have the experience they claim, have logged plenty of bluewater miles, and feel that their experience is not the kind to have been to be trivialized in a fit of pique. I did find it dismaying when Gene resorted to that, and I apologize for his sake to those of you whose experience he obviously had no idea of, and who might have been offended by his crass personal attack. That kind of thing is *not* a part of what sailFar is intended to be. :)

[Lost Lake]

I need to talk less and listen more......  :-X

Perhaps a late resolution....

[AdriftAtSea]

CapnK-

Unfortunately, I don't think Gene was interested in hearing anything but total agreement with himself...

[Tim]

I need to talk less and listen more......  :-X

Perhaps a late resolution....

Lost Lake, you just thought you were standing up for somebody who wasn't here to do it for herself, nothing wrong with that.

And you proved you could listen by taking what was then said.

Nothing wrong with expressing your views :) That is what it is all about.

[Captain Smollett]

Nothing wrong with expressing your views :) That is what it is all about.

Agreed.

Lake, and Tim, a glass with you kind sirs. 

[Frank]

from Flicka20 site................. 



Flicka Home Page


It's dead calm out in the Gulf just now, and Heather is being towed back into Steinhatchee, with no engine. The problem could be a minor linkage problem, which I could fix if I were aboard. It gets fuel in reverse, but not in forward.


Gene Neill


01/07/2007 18:16: Back in Steinhatchee, FL

[Lynx]

I am glad that she made it back safe. We have another front comming and I would not want to be 300 miles out in the gulf stream with a broken boat. Good choice on Heather and Gene's part

[Auspicious]

Heather is safely back in port and has updated the log page of her web site ( http://www dot solo-sailor dot com/ShipLog dot htm ). She writes well. As many of us speculated there is more to the story than we knew, and I'm sure there are yet more details that it would be interesting to have.

All in all, and in my own opinion only, I think she did rather well particularly in light of her experience level.

I wasn't aware of her seasickness. I haven't been seasick (yet) so I can't imagine how debilitated she must have been. I have seen the effects on others though. No wonder she chose to heave to so she could - ah - heave.

The engine issue sounds somewhat more complicated than I thought, but I still suspect a linkage, just between the single-lever control and the engine throttle as opposed to a linkage with the transmission shift.

I still haven't installed a lock on the inside of my companionway slide, and I'm staring at the thing considering the emotional impact of being locked out. Whatever I decide to do (probably still a barrel bolt) standard procedure on Auspicious is now to unlock all the deck hatches (Lewmar Ocean hatches can be opened from the outside as well as the inside as long as the little lock tabs are flipped to open) before going sailing.

[Captain Smollett]

I still haven't installed a lock on the inside of my companionway slide, and I'm staring at the thing considering the emotional impact of being locked out. Whatever I decide to do (probably still a barrel bolt) standard procedure on Auspicious is now to unlock all the deck hatches (Lewmar Ocean hatches can be opened from the outside as well as the inside as long as the little lock tabs are flipped to open) before going sailing.

Perhaps a wire tie or rubber band on the barrel bolt to hold it in the "open" position would be cheap insurance as well?