Flicka 'round the world' trip planned

[FLIGHT]

Yes, Lynx, my wife and our youngest daughter, Christa, and I were in the Abacos recently in our little diesel Bristol Bay Troller (not Trawler).  I took the boat from Miami to Bimini alone, Dorothy and Christa joined me there, we motored up to Walker's Cay, and cruised from there down to the Jumentos Cays - then back home to Miami.

So we've kept up with developments in the Bahamas.

Thank you very much.
Gene

[Lynx]

Gene - COOL. Most people go the other way first.I have only been on the boat for 2 months and have changed a lot of what I thought that life would be like on the water. A lot of what I have learned coastal cruising has been modified. It has been said by many cruisers that curising is its own extreme sport and usually require time at it to become good. What you have done in your coastal waters will help but the real life knowledge of draging anchor and having to move the boat at sunset to find another location to sleep at night being 500 miles from home makes one start to think about cruising in a different way. I am sure that she will work it out. Great boat and not really hard, just different.

It looks like her course is very good and easy enough that she can do it. A few miles, then stop for a few days and then a few more. Recope and repair if nessarry.

I may have to go back to work by the time she makes it to the Bahamas but I hope not.

[FLIGHT]

Hi Lynx -

Thank you for the nice note.

But, forgive me, most people do not "go the other way first", if you mean circumnavigating West to East.  You would miss the trades that way, which would otherwise carry you 70% of the way around the world.

Perhaps you're thinking of Yankees who sail down to the Bahamas from up North, then on down to the Caribbean and over to Panama.  But that's not us.  We're Rebels from way over on the Gulf coast of Florida.  To go to the Bahamas from here and then down to Panama would be many thousands of miles out of the way.

No, I've never done any coastal water sailing.  The east coast of Florida is rough and non-fun sailing, and the west coast of Florida is worse.  Except for the Bahamas and the Caribbean, Florida is not a great sailing state at all, believe it or not.  Except for bay sailors.

And no, I've never dragged anchor yet, but I've always gone overkill on anchors sizes and numbers.

We've gone way out of our way to avoid the type of sailing which is a "few miles, then stop for a few days, then a few more."  "Harbor hopping", as it is called, is the very most dangerous sailing of all.  The land is the sailor's enemy.  The open ocean his friend.  Voyagers do not get in trouble out in the open sea; they get in trouble when they are near land.  And she'll have several stretches of some 50 days out of sight of land.

Very best wishes,

Gene

[Lynx]

Gene - I was thinking that she might just head over to the med and cross through the cannal and then indian ocean to the pacific. But this is not done much as you said.

I dragged anchor because I did not check it. I was on rock and it did hold for a little. I should have checked it.

You bet that the land can be the ememy of the sailor. A lot of stuff in the water and no place to go when things get out of hand.

It is good that you like the blue water. If I had the money to get a better boat I would have done so in my earlier years. I would need a big boat now for my tender body.

It looks like there is a weather window is the 2nd or 3rd. I hope that she has a good 500+ mile trip to Mexico. I have always wanted to do that trip.

[FLIGHT]

THINGS ARE DEFINITELY NOT LOOKING GOOD, GUYS.

Lemme start from the beginning:  I bought this AIR-X wind turbine from Hamilton Ferris Company.  Took me two weeks, 10 hours a day, to install it properly.  Then I was going to buy two new batteries for Heather, and I figured I'd get the same ones which came with the boat in the first place.  And I called Hamilton Ferris, and the guy I talked to said, "Sure, they'll be perfect.  No problem."

So I installed the batteries.

NOW THREE DAYS BEFORE EMBARKATION DATE, MR. HAMILTON FERRIS CALLED HEATHER AND SAID, "No, your system is not going to work at all.  Those batteries are all wrong.  You need a different battery, and you need at least three of them.  And you need an additional regulator, and you need a dump circuit.  But don't worry, Heather can easily install the dump and the regulator."  Etc., etc.

So we bought the two new batteries from him and the new regulator - which is to be installed IN ADDITION to the boat's Yanmar regulator.  AND THE INSTRUCTION MANUAL FOR INSTALLING THIS NEW REGULATOR IS EIGHTY PAGES LONG, AND IT'S A HUGE AND HEAVY MACHINE!

But he couldn't find a dump circuit.  Not yet, at least

And now he tells us that - if we don't have at least three batteries and the regulator and the dump circuit, the batteries will never charge all the way up.  The Air-X will shut down before they are fully charged.

WE'RE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO POSTPONE THE DEPARTURE.

Heather will be out there on this boat probably at least five years or more.

And she could not install these things by herself, and no Mexican nor Panamanian mechanic is going to have any idea what the dump circuit nor this new regulator is.

WE'RE JUST GOING TO HAVE TO POSTPONE THE DEPARTURE UNTIL WE CAN GET AND INSTALL THE THIRD BATTERY AND THE DUMP CIRCUIT.

We can get the 3rd battery by Tuesday the 1st.

But we don't have any idea about the dump circuit.  Maybe a day or so - we hope.

Heather cried when I told her she was going to have to postpone.

I just got furious.

BUT THIS IS THE WAY IT HAS TO BE.

IF YOU EVER THINK ABOUT INSTALLING A WIND ALTERNATOR, MAKE CERTAIN THE DISTRIBUTOR TELLS YOU ALL THE BAD NEWS RIGHT UP FRONT.

WE STILL TRUST HAMILTON FERRIS AND HIS COMPANY.  IT WAS THE OTHER GUY I TALKED WITH THERE WHO CAUSED ALL THIS CONSTERNATION.

Sorry to disappoint you guys - I'm very sorry.

We'll keep you posted.

Cheers anyway,
Gene

[Zen]

Don't try to push a river!

[FLIGHT]

Folks push rivers all the time - dam them up, divert them, etc., nothin' to it.

It suppliers of electrical parts you cannot push.

Gene

[oded kishony]

Hi,

This is clearly the right decision! We're cheering and rooting for you to have a fun and safe trip. I, for one, will be taking this trip with you vicariously.

Best of luck
Oded Kishony

[Auspicious]

Gene,

You don't have to have a dump circuit to charge the batteries fully. The function of the dump circuit is to avoid overcharging the batteries by turning extra energy into heat instead of trying to push it into the battery bank. You can perform the same function by watching the state of charge and turning off the wind gen. It isn't a five year solution (in my mind), but it is a possible expedient.

Check with Hotwire (www.svhotwire.com) -- they are well-regarded cruisers who have a small business in Florida in alternative power generation. I know they carry dump circuits and may well have something in stock.

sail fast, dave

[Lynx]

Salt Sea Air Land Technologies
(305) 289-1150 keysweb.info
2109 Overseas Hwy, Marathon, FL 33050

Give these people a call. I bought my solar pannels from him and he has a good inventory.

Great prodjucts

[FLIGHT]

YOU'RE AN ABSOLUTE ANSWER TO PRAYER, AUSPICIOUS!

John, the owner of Hotwire Enterprises will be driving up here in the morning to solve all of Heather's electrical problems.  He sells his own brand of wind turbine, and sounds to me as though he really knows whereof he speaks, including knowing all about our Air-X system.   In fact, he said, "I don't know why Ham (Hamilton Ferris) would have said that to Heather.  You don't really need more than two batteries....", etc., etc., etc.  I didn't understand all of his electrical talk, because I'm fairly ignorant of matters electrical, alas.

But he said he will make up his own dump system, and bring it with him when he comes.

And fortunately he's not too awfully far from Heather's boat, possibly a three hour drive.

So thank you so very much for the tip!  You're a lifesaver!

In the meantime, Heather had to run her engine for about an hour to get it warmed up enough to adjust the stuffing box drip rate - which she now has down to about three drops a minute.

Thanks again!


Gene

[Auspicious]

That sounds like John. His wife's name is Libbie -- the often travel together in a small RV so you may get to meet her as well. I haven't heard an update in a while, but John and Libbie's boat sank earlier in the year and I believe they are working to rebuild her. I thought you would like to know that.

The KISS wind generator Hotwire carries is actually made in Trinidad by yet another entrepreneur cruiser; John is a US distributer. For the record it's a very simple, straightforward well regarded product.

Funny that John would say what you reported -- that was exactly my thought when I read your post, except the words were more along the lines of "Why the heck would he have said that?" <grin> I'm not familiar with Ferris so I'd rather not cast stones.

What I expect John will help you do is double check the Air-X install, check the wind-gen regulator (I do agree that you should have one of those -- you can live without it, just as you can live without a dump load, but then the *sailor* becomes the regulator, manually switching off the gen when the batteries are charged), make sure the engine and wind-gen regulators are installed compatibly, and put the dump load in somewhere appropriate. The dump load can get quite warm when the batteries are charged and the wind continues to drive the generator. I don't know the layout of the Flicka to make a specific recommendation, but bear in mind where Heather will sleep and where perishable stores are kept in helping select a location.

Does Flight of Years have a battery monitor (like a Link or TriMetric) or just a voltage meter? If you have a battery monitor, the negative charge lead from the wind generator should be on the side of the shunt away from the battery bank (just as the main negative line from the engine alternator should be). John will check that also I'm sure.

Please tell John I'm sorry to have missed him at the Annapolis Boat Show. I did have a parking place lined up for him.

[FLIGHT]

Hi John -

To bad you're not nearby so you could come over and give Heather a hand on these charging problems!

How on earth did their boat sink???? 

Made in Trinidad???  I've spent a lot of time in Trinidad, and can't imagine anything of quality coming out of that hole.  But if you say so . . . .

I'd be happy for John to check the Air-X install, but it is flawless.  Understand, the thing has been working flawlessly now since Heather put the boat in the water a month or so ago.  Worked fine throughout her so-called "shake-down cruise", though the wind was so light much of the time, there was little charging.  Thus the wind gen regulator is working flawlessly. 

When you say make sure the engine and wind-gen regulators are installed compatibly, you mean the wind gen regulator in the Air-X or the new additional third regulator?  Oh never mind, I would have no idea anyway.

I don't know what a battery monitor is.  It has some sort of battery meter on the circuit breaker box, and you can switch it from one battery to the other, but I have no way of knowing what it shows other than voltage.

No, the Air-X people told me to attach the Air-X to the house battery, which is where I attached it.

Too much trouble.....!

Thanks for your help!

Gene

[Auspicious]

Gene,

I'd be pleased to come help if I could. I'm a bit far and a little limited by some health issues. It was kind of you to say you thought I'd be of use.

I must admit to being confused. I did not realize (or gather from your posts) that the Air-X had a built-in regulator. I tracked down the manufacturer's web site (www.windsun.com) and read their page on the Air-X Marine. It is clear that there is a built-in regulator (they call it a charge controller, a term usually used for solar panel regulators, but a reasonable synonym).

I'm not sure why Ferris sold you an additional external regulator, unless he/they are out of date on Air-X products. The Air-X website says:

Improved battery charging: Previous AIR designs required 300-400 amp hour battery banks so the trickle charge of the wind turbine could be adequately absorbed. The AIR-X's charge controller periodically stops charging, reads the battery voltage, compares it to the voltage setting and if the battery is charged, it completely shuts off all current going to the battery. This function is performed within a few milliseconds. The closer the battery is to reaching its full state of charge, the more often the AIR-X's circuit repeats this action. This means any size battery bank from 25 to 25,000 amp hours or higher can be charged safely. When the battery has reached its charged state, the AIR-X will slow to an almost complete stop. Only when the battery has dropped below its voltage set point will it startup and resume charging.

That means there used to be an issue with having enough battery capacity for the old internal regulator to work correctly, but that is no longer the case. I hope Ferris did not sell you something old out of inventory. Perhaps a phone call to Northern Arizona Wind & Sun with the serial number would be useful.

I never have heard any sailor complain about having too much battery capacity though, so a larger bank than you originally planned may be an ultimate benefit.

The internal regulator seems to apply a brake and shut down power generation. If true, I don't understand why Ferris told you that you need a dump load. The point of a dump load is to consume power generated by the wind gen after the batteries are charged. If instead there is a way (as appears to be the case) to stop power generation then a dump load is extraneous.

I expect the external regulator does have terminals for the dump load (good external regulators assume no control over the upstream power source, so if power is coming it has to go somewhere), so if there is any shortfall in the internal regulator, the external one and the dump load are indeed the right answer.

I looked for a copy of the schematic or even the owner's manual for the Air-X online without luck. John's reputation is sterling however and I have confidence he will give you the straight story.

It sounds as if Flight of Years has a volt meter only. That means no shunt to worry about. For background information, voltage of a battery bank is an inaccurate way of measuring state of charge (although it was all we had for years and years and will serve in the absence of other means). A battery monitor actually keeps track of the energy flow into and out of the battery bank (in amp*hours or watt*hours) and provides an indication of state of charge. The Mastervolt-built unit on my boat has a read-out in percent of full charge and in amp*hours; I believe the Link, TriMetric, and competing brands do the same. The Xantrex-made Link battery monitors are the most widely installed battery monitors in US outfit boats. Four weeks ago I would have suggested squeezing one into your plans and budget, but it seems to me that it is time to push off and the marginal benefit is relatively small. I do think Heather should take a hydrometer (available at auto parts stores for less than $15) and test the batteries every month or so (not underway). The graph here ( http://www.engineersedge.com/battery/specific_gravity_battery.htm ) should demonstrate the issue; John may be able to explain better than I. If he differs from my opinion please let me know and go with his advice.

I don't remember what caused S/V Hotwire to sink. I recall she went down at the dock, and was recovered after about 10 hours. Shore power and 12V power were all energized at the time and there was a lot of damage to the electrical system. Fortunately that is John's forte. I hope they are recovering. The boat and RV are the only homes they have I believe.

The KISS wind gen is made in Trinidad by a cruiser (American or Canadian I think) who landed there and never left. He does use some local labor but the design and quality checks are his. My understanding is that Trinidad, while definitely still a third-world country, has developed a fairly strong reasonable quality marine services industry, principally as a result of insurance companies driving sailors to get out of the hurricane belt during the season. There is a large ex-pat community there now, many of whom run those service companies.

So having told you how to build a watch when you just wanted to know what time it is, I hope all goes well straightening out the wind gen issue. I'm beginning to suspect that your the victim of poor advice from Ferris. If so that is most unfortunate.

best regards and wishes for happy new year,

dave
S/V Auspicious

[AdriftAtSea]

It could also be that Ferris sold you a current model but is unaware or has forgotten the change made by the manufacturer.   If the AirX unit has been working properly, and it hasn't fried Heather's batteries, which are together only 150 amp-hours or half the necessary capacity for the older design... then the additional batteries and regulator shouldn't be necessary.

[Auspicious]

I agree with Dan. If the internal regulator meets the need, I would keep the extra batteries (can't have too many batteries!) and return the external regulator. It would mean John from Hotwire diagnosed himself out of business unfortunately.

If true, it doesn't speak well of Ferris however.

Gene -- please let us know how it all works out so that accolades and lashes are distributed appropriately.

dave
S/V Auspicious

[CharlieJ]

Auspicious- I posted that same quote some time ago in this thread. I've been more than a tad suspicious of the tale since reading the website from Air-X.

SOMETHING is definitely not right here, and I would tend to go with the Air-X site, over whoever this "Ferris" guy is.

Hopefully the guy coming to help can get it all straightened out.

By the way, I had a wind generator on my trimaran for years, with no special equipment outside the unit- just hooked directly to a battery bank- all the controlling was internal. That was in the early 80s, so I'm sure progress has been made since then.

[CapnK]

Gene -- please let us know how it all works out so that accolades and lashes are distributed appropriately.

Funny, Dave - but a good idea. :) Keep us informed, Gene!

[AdriftAtSea]

I agree with Dan. If the internal regulator meets the need, I would keep the extra batteries (can't have too many batteries!) and return the external regulator.

Good point, I do think that 150 amp-hours is a bit small for a cruising boat's house bank, even if it is a boat as small as a Flicka.

It would mean John from Hotwire diagnosed himself out of business unfortunately.

True, but he'll probably gain a good deal of business for his honesty and willingness to fix someone else's screwup.

If true, it doesn't speak well of Ferris however.

Gene -- please let us know how it all works out so that accolades and lashes are distributed appropriately.

dave
S/V Auspicious

Yes, the beatings do need to be properly distributed. :)

[Captain Smollett]

SOMETHING is definitely not right here, and I would tend to go with the Air-X site, over whoever this "Ferris" guy is.

Not to defend the advice of Ferris on this issue (because I too am puzzled), but Ferris is one largest dealers of off-grid power products.  The company seems to cater more to off-grid and backup systems for homes than for marine/mobile use, but cannot see how THAT would lead them to comment as they have in regard to Flight of Years.