Salvage

[wild one]

I guess I should introduce myself before I ask any ?s. My name is Tracy and I have a 26' Chrysler here at Jekyll Ilse Ga. I met the owner of S.V. Faith on thier way down last fall and he gave the addy here. I am new to sailing-self tought/learning on a 13' Chrysler I bought first by picking up info where I can and I have found this place a great source of info-so thank you for that. This site is a great source.

Now for the questions. I have been informed by a D.N.R. of a sunk sail boat in shallow water nearby. The story is they saw it float in the river unattened and watched go back and forth with the whims of nature until it grounded on a mud bank at the marsh edge where it lay over as the tide went out but did not right when it came back in. The say it now belongs to who ever brings it up. My thinking is to go to the boat at low tide and stuff inflatables under the cockpit and at the bow of the boat and fill as much in the cabin as I can find to float the boat up right when the tide is up and then pump out the remaining water. The boat was under a foot of water at the peak of high tide today when I saw it and it looks to be a 20'? daysailer but thats all I could find out for now. I am going back Wensday and looking again at about half tide for more info. I'd love to take the day off  to see it a dead low tide but thats working life. My question is how much cubic feet of air would it take to get a 2500-3500lbs boat up out of the water enough to pump it out the rest of the way or float enough to pull it to a ramp and trailer it out at a near by ramp that is really steep where the trailer should get under it even half sunk. It has be there a month now but the one winch I could see and reach is still sprins free. Maybe it would make a nice father/son adventure and let my son have the boat and take up the sailing to if the boat is worth it or just part it out who knows but it looks to be a fun challenge to see if when can salvage anyway. Thanks.........Tracy

[Bill NH]

Every cubic foot of air gets you 62.4 lbs of buoyancy in fresh water, 64 lbs of buoyancy in salt water...

[Captain Smollett]

In addition to floats, you might also consider a pump to get the water out of the boat.  If she's not holed anywhere, this might be this easiest way to get positive buoyancy.

Just a thought...

[ronc98]

A fellow C-26 owner.  What a great boat.

Good luck on your salvage. 

[AdriftAtSea]

You don't want to use regular inflatables, since most are rather easily punctured.  Very heavy lift bags are probably what you want to use.

A gasoline or diesel powered high-volume pump would really help a lot, even if the boat is holed, provided the hole isn't huge. 

You'll want to have the materials to jury-rig patches over any holes in the hull, so that you can at least tow the boat without it refilling and sinking again.

[Gus]

Hi Tracy! (good to see another chrysler sailor) Here's a link to a guy that lifted a sunken macgregor 21 http://www.shortypen.com/essays/sunken/index.htm

Good luck!

Gus

[atomvoyager]

Tracy,

Welcome to the group. We're just a couple miles from you in Brunswick and are currently working on a Catalina 320 (What! Yes, I know) at Riverside condo docks next to Golden Isles Marina. We'll be there until next month sometime when we deliver the boat to St. Thomas for the owners. Stop by if you're around. 912-222-8404.

If you check that boat when she is drying on the ebb tide you may find the leak by seeing where the water is running out. Fix the leak at low tide and she may lift herself. You can make it easier by taking off any easily removed heavy objects and bail her out first.

James B

[skylark]

When you go check it out, take a bucket and an anchor.  You might be able to get enough water out to where it will float again.  Anchor it down and finish the job when it is floating.  Then get it out to deeper water.

[wild one]

Thanks for all the help!. We went back today after work to take another look at mid tide. Still don't know what make it is but all the pricey hardware is still there. Don't know if she has a hole in it. The D.N.R. told me it had been just floating around until it wound up at the marsh edge. From the story and the way the boat is sitting I think it just would'nt right itself bfore filling up. The boat is on a mud bank with the keel on higher ground than the toe rail/ nearly 90* on it's side. Thats why I want to put floatation evenly distributed in it so as the water comes in it will right itself then we can pump her out. If there is a leak the floats will keep it up and we will drag it to a lift then repump and haul it out before it fills up-thats the plan at this point anyway. Now I am wonding what legal steps do I need to do.

[Grime]

Maybe I  am speaking out of turn here not being a sailor or much experience with boats. Just thinking out loud.

Since she was just floating around, just maybe, she floated up on a high tide, got grounded, then when the tide went out she laid over. Then over time she filled with water with the tide changes, rain  taking her even farther over. Maybe there is no hole at all.

Me I would get me a jon boat with a pump and start pumping. If I can't get anywhere with the pump then I would go to plan B.


Just a cowboy way of thinking. Sure hope you can save her.

David

[Gus]

Thanks for all the help!. We went back today after work to take another look at mid tide. Still don't know what make it is but all the pricey hardware is still there. Don't know if she has a hole in it. The D.N.R. told me it had been just floating around until it wound up at the marsh edge. From the story and the way the boat is sitting I think it just would'nt right itself bfore filling up. The boat is on a mud bank with the keel on higher ground than the toe rail/ nearly 90* on it's side. Thats why I want to put floatation evenly distributed in it so as the water comes in it will right itself then we can pump her out. If there is a leak the floats will keep it up and we will drag it to a lift then repump and haul it out before it fills up-thats the plan at this point anyway. Now I am wonding what legal steps do I need to do.

That's a really good question, I think of that often when I see so many neglected boats sitting on morings or in a marina.

Gus

[wild one]

Thanks for the input guys. I will be taking a pump with us and will be with my son and his john boat but like I said she went too far over to right before taking on water ( the keel is on the high side of a slopped mud bank) from the waves coming from the south and my thinking is with the hull stuffed with ski tubes under the cockpit and in the foward berth and fill the cabin she has no choice but to float. My son and I both have worked with fiberglass many times and a hole does'nt worry me to much but I don't think theres one anyway. With the limited time we have we are going loaded for bear to get it up and safe in one shot-or I hope so anway. Will keep checking for advice and let you know how it works out.

[AdriftAtSea]

Good luck Tracy... keep us posted.

[atomvoyager]

I also wondered about the legal issues and since I don't know the salvage laws in Georgia was not going to give advice. But since you asked... salvaging a sunken, apparently abandoned boat, even with CG blessing, does not give you clear title. From what I know, you would present your claim to a court (don't know which one) and they would decide the award - full title or partial lien - depending on the situation. The other route is to trace down the owner through the registration numbers and ask him to transfer title before you touch it. There's a small risk there that for some reason you can't move the boat and later the CG changes their story and sends you a bill for having your wreck removed.

I know just a little about this because a friend sailing across the Indian Ocean chanced upon an abandoned 30-something-foot sailboat several hundred miles offshore, towed it back to Thailand and then learned the authorities would not recognize his claim. Luckily for him the owners relatives did not contest it and he received clear title directly from them, cleaned it up and resold it. Said he would probably sail right by the next one though!

With this little boat chances are you'll have no problem. Of course, if its a type of boat that is nearly worthless on the market, it'll also be nearly worthless after all your efforts. If you strip off a few parts then what to do about disposing of the boat? Maybe just take the parts off you want at low tide if you get permission and leave her as she is... Good Luck.

Oh, it doesn't matter that the boat is heeled towards deep water, large fenders or inner tubes or whatever you have, lashed low to the down side should lift the edge to keep it from flooding - it is a light boat apparently.

James B

[Shipscarver]

 ::)
I don't know about Ga. but as an old Florida boy, I was raised on tales of fortunes salvaged, pirates plundering (some of them still drinking at the local bar), and ships for the taking.
That's not now, at least for some of it.
If you want to be a small boat salvage entrepreneur you should be aware of three important points:
1. The easiest and fastest way to salvage a boat in Florida is to figure out the registration numbers or who had it last, and contact the owner. Get him to sign over the title, Of course you may have to remind him/her of the case not long ago of the shrimper who was whacked by the Coast Guard for $200,000 to remove his derelect boat. Once you have the signed title in hand, get it transferred and you are now responsible for the hulk.
2. If the boat is on the hard, PUBLIC PROPERTY, (remember, here in Florida we have a long tradition of private property rights and of gun ownership) you start your quest for ownership by contacting the local smiling Sheriff. He will do a lost property report, and you get to pay to have the boat towed, stored, and loving cared for. Then an ad is placed in the local paper seeking the owner of the lost property, your beloved wreck. Ninety days later, (remember the storage bill), if no one else is willing to admit ownership and pay the tab, you can keep it after shaking out your wallet on the counter. At that point you have it inspected by Fish and Wildlife, and using their report and the Sheriffs report, you pay to get it registered. Congratulations. You now own a free boat!
3. If the boat is on the water, start with the Coast Guard. Bring your check book and get the tub declared a derelict, and towed, etc. (here we go again). This better be a really nice boat, the Coast Guard ain't cheap!
Now you know why the Florida coastline and waterways are littered with abandoned boats more visible than white bird waste on a fishing dock.
Strange though, they all seem to have every bit of usable gear stripped from them. Oh yeah, Good Luck with the free boat!

[wild one]

I have contacted the Coast Gaurd and D.N.R. about it and both say get it up and it's yours. Thing is they can't back it up with anything in the books. It was the D.N.R who told me about it and said it's yours for the taking. No the boat can't be worth much but thats not the reason for doing it either. The registration #s are half gone but it was from AK-Alaska? so that looks like a dead end. Whats the chances of finding the owner here even if they are still around? and thats if the boat title changed hands throuh the years. I'll try to raise it tomorrow and check more into it on the salvage rules. Lets see how well the officals stand behind me if this goes bad. One thing for sure, if we do raise and it sinks again you can bet they will make it my boat just to ream me a new one!.

[AdriftAtSea]

AK might be Arkansas... boat registration numbers don't use the postal state abbreviations.  For instance, MS stands for Massachusetts, though you'd think it was Mississippi. Get permission from the USCG and DNR in writing if at all possible. Even a fax or e-mail from them would help a lot if the owner does decide to press his claim on the boat and possibly press charges against you... it would show that you were acting in good faith on the salvage.

[Oldrig]

Also, find out what kind of title laws apply to the state that turns out to be "AK," and see if the registration is still valid.

Salvage laws are tricky. They vary from state to state, since this boat is clearly not on the high seas, I'd tread kind of carefully. Even written permission from the DNR and USCG might not help you out if the owner appears to claim his boat--although you could probably bill him for the cost of your efforts.

Just a few thoughts. I'm no sea lawyer--or any other kind of lawyer.

Good luck,

--Joe

[AdriftAtSea]

Most states have an abandoned property law of some sort...and if this boat has been there as long as DNR and the USCG seems to say it has, it probably qualifies.  I don't think the AK laws are all that pertinent, since the boat isn't in whatever state uses AK as its abbreviation. 

[Captain Smollett]

Rather than all this speculation about what the GA laws MIGHT BE, why don't don't you read that actual laws in your state?

GA Statute on Vessels in GA Waters

Then, if you have any questions about how to apply this law, talk to an attorney.

One thing that I've found that's helped in my experience (not regarding boat salvage, just in general in terms of legal cases).  Document everything.  Do you know the date you talked to the CG or the DNR folks?

Get a 'log book' or notebook.  Write everything down. The first thing that goes into your notebook is a copy of that statute above; this shows you've done your homework and are really acting in "good faith" (*). Record the date you first noticed the boat.  The date you spoke to DNR, the date you first attempted to refloat the boat, etc.  ESPECIALLY note the date that you notified DNR that you recovered the boat within 10 Days of Recovery per Statute 52-7A-15.

Attorneys LOVE this sort of thing....and here's the important part - SO DO JUDGES.

Hope this helps.

(*) It's hard to argue that you are acting in "Good Faith" if you don't know what the law actually is.