completely empty boat, ideas?

[Publius]

As I have mentioned I just received a 26 ft Clipper Marine, I've named Reprisal.  The interior is totally bare (now that I have finished gutting the rotted 30 year old innards.  The seems in the cladding are smoothed and it is ready to be reconstructed.  I should mention Reprisal is a swing keel, so the cabin is fairly shallow.  I plan on replacing the old pop-top roof with a sturdy permanent cabin roof.  Any ideas for layout? design? I hope to use Reprisal for long distance coastal sailing.


The exterior could also use some work, the hull paint/bottom paint all needs to be completely removed and redone.  The color scheme I was thinking of is Blue, white strip at the water line, red bottom. As I've mentioned in another thread I also want to add three ports to each side of the hull, two aft in order to better light the quarter births and one forward to light the v birth.  I have no sailing experience what so ever, minimal hands on building experience but am anxious to get into both.  All the help in the world would be lovely!! :) Some of you have already helped me out a great deal so thanks again.

[Amgine]

You're entering into the game of inches.

You will be coastal sailing long distance. This means you will not require a good sea berth on either tack, but it's nice to have anyway. Design your berth(s) for you - they must be long enough, wide enough, narrow enough, soft/firm enough (after a full sleep) and with enough room above for you to sleep comfortably in the areas you sail to. Keep in mind how you will sleep in the daytime; curtains over the portholes? curtain around the berth?

Do not plan on building up the coachroof height too much. Plan the layout around moving from sitting position to sitting position. You must have a sitting position from which you can cook on the stove.

If possible, you don't want to have a porta potty, and you don't want to look at or smell the head.

What deck gear will you be installing which impinges below? Anchor locker, windlass, compression post, instruments, mast wiring, 110 wiring...

You will want a couple of good places to read, including good, focused lighting. You will probably want a permanently set up place to spread out a chart, even if it's over the top of the reefer and hob. Even if you don't have a permanent dinette (which is almost universally unused for meals underway) you will likely want *something* for in port for writing/drawing/setting laptop on or even eating at.

Although most people are concerned about tankage and stowage, I find they're usually over-emphasized in small coastal cruisers. You're almost never more than a day from a grocery, fuel, and water. A tiny galley with a sink (foot pump), a stove of some form, and a few days worth of food will do. Depending on where you plan to sail, a heater of some form may be the difference between cruising and an endurance sail.

These are things I think are important. Others will clearly focus on other topics. You'll eventually get into compromises of inches, or fractions of an inch. Those who've built their interiors extoll the benefits of full-sized in situ mockups, and I trust them.

[mrb]

This may have been brought up but you might want to think about some of the interior work serving as structurally stiffening members.  Don't know about yours but many boats are designed with that idea in mind.  Bulkheads, floors and so forth.

Melvin

[Auspicious]

I'm a big fan of pop-tops on small boats. They can make life much more comfortable at anchor, particularly in warmer regions. A pop-top with canvas enclosure should be fine for coastal cruising;  I agree that a pop-top might be less wise for offshore jumps (by my definition, Norfolk to Bermuda is offshore while Florida to the Bahamas is not; Oriental NC to the Bahamas probably is).

[Publius]

hmmm so like a pop top with an accordianing canvas?  would I be able to keep it raised while underway?

[AdriftAtSea]

Most boats with pop-tops don't generally use them underway.  They leave the boat a lot more vulnerable in the case of a capsize or knockdown.  They also create a lot of windage, and are more vulnerable to water intrusion in heavy conditions.  So, if you do add a pop-top, don't plan on using it while underway.

The point about the interior structures acting to stiffen the hull and support the cabintop, especially where the mast is located, are very important.  You need to have some structure in the boat that will prevent the shrouds from compressing the boat laterally and the stays from compressing the boat longitudinally—turning it into a banana. You also need some sort of structure, usually a bulkhead or compression post that transfer the downward loading of the mast to the keel/hull.  You also need some support to prevent the boat's hull and cabin from twisting due the forces of the wind and waves.  This is the minimum required.

Additional stringers (longitudinal reinforcement) and floors (lateral reinforcements) of the hull is probably wise as well, not only to stiffen the fiberglass hull, which is fairly flexible without such supports and may oilcan or flex and eventually fatigue, but to use as supports and attachment points for things like the settees, cabin sole, etc.

[Amgine]

This is sometimes called "egg crating". An egg carton is an amazingly stiff structure, considering how little material is used. (Eggs are too, and stronger when liquid than when hard boiled.)

The idea is to break up the interior of a hull with many smaller structures, each glued onto the hull, and in some ways passing loads (usually compression) on to the other structures, which eventually move the load back onto the hull. The result is a huge increase of strength; the difference between three pieces of coarse paper, and corrugated cardboard.

So, in the way of the shrouds you might find a bulkhead, tied into settees (back, bookshelf, inboard carlin, and at least one transverse member all glued to the hull) and the head cabinetry (outboard cabinet and lockers on one side, vanity and shelves on the other, and a forward bulkhead again.) All total you might have more than 100 lineal feet of plywood glued onto the hull which is placed near the shrouds to spread the loads into the hull.

The same idea is why bubble wrap works to protect fragile things when shipping. Lots of thin, weak connections that add up to a lot of strength.

[Publius]

wow, adrift seriously, you should maybe consider starting a school, or trade school or something.

okay, as well as layout design tomorrow ill also be looking for opportunities to reinforce ... don't wanna squished boat.

Thanks again!  :)

[dnice]

First off dont get crazy, you are not going to be sailing this boat through a hurricane (or are you??).

So with that in mind.
Amgine's idea of egg crating is great. It can be simplified though. Just build water tight compartments throughout the boat. Similar to what James Baldwin did on Atom. That will give you the hull strength that adrift is suggesting, add to that, reinforce the current mast support structure. Or at the very least, add a compression post. Either way, you will get plenty of strength for crossing oceans. I would also find a way to beef up the chainplating. Just to point out, there are plenty of Stock "coastal cruisers" out there crossing oceans right now without any these modifications.
But since you have a blank slate to start with, might as well do it right :)

I personally don't see anything wrong with a pop-top on a long distance voyager, especially on a boat that small. The biggest problem with them (that I know of) is making them water tight. I imagine its not too complicated to add some sort of water tight seal to it, add to that a way to lock it down and you should be good.

As far as the canvas goes, I don't think an accordian style thing would work unless you build a self-stowing compartment in the cabin top for the canvas. But there are many people using pop-top enclosures that are sort-of the wrap around style.

Similar to this:


I wouldn't plan on cruising with it up, unless you are absolutely sure everything will clear it, and the windage won't be a problem

As for layout options, I personally like the contessa 26 layout (very common) where the bunks are aft and the galley/nav station are forward. That keeps the important stuff from getting soaked, gives you sea-berths and leaves the forward cabin for storage or extra bunk.

Take a look at the refit of s/v fenix to see the layout and construction that I am talking about.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

[AdriftAtSea]

I didn't mean to sound alarmist.. but there is a minimum of structure that needs to be restored before the boat can be considered seaworthy IMHO. 

"Egg Crating" is a good way to do it... and to build in buoyancy.  But there are many ways to build the reinforcing structures besides egg crating. 

One boat that I've seen had been gutted and instead of a traditional bulkhead, the boat's hull and deck were reinforced with a grid of stringers and floors, and had several "laminated" trusses that distributed the load from the deck down to grid system and hull.  The boat's interior was very open.

Just remember, when adding stringers or floors—in general, they should be symmetrical longitundinally, so that the two halves of the boat are equally well supported.  For instance, if you run two stringers down the port side of the hull, you should have matching stringers on the starboard side—of equal length and similar placement.

Also, when adding bulkheads, generally, the bulkhead itself should not touch the hull/deck.  The reason for this is to prevent the bulkhead from becoming a "hard" edge in the laminate where the glass will be more subject to stress and fatigue.  There should be a small gap between the bulkhead and the hull/deck.  The space can be filled with foam, which is shaped to help create a smooth fillet to the tabbing that will hold the bulkhead in place.  The tabbing shouldn't have a tight bend, since that will weaken the glass fibers in the tabbing considerably.

[Auspicious]

The trade-off is between strength and weight. If you put too much reinforcement in you will find a wonderfully strong boat that is so heavy that it is slow, wet, and underpowered.

Furniture in the boat, if done properly, becomes part of the structure. Think that through as well. Some of the small boat design books do a credible job of addressing that.

[Publius]

wow okay thanks all great info

i think i will be going with a fixed cabin roof in order to allow a little standing space

will look into ways to reinforce on the mk26