Westerly Centaur

[doug]

what is the difference between ball valves and a seacock?

[CharlieJ]

Well made ball valves work just fine- almost the same method. It's GATE valves that you really want to avoid.

Difference is, with either ball valves or sea cocks, you can tell by the handle position if the valve is open or closed. A 90 degree turn does the job.

On the other hand, a gate valve ( like your home water faucet) screws a gate across the opening, and if something happens to get in there, there is no way to know if it's really closed or not.

[Lost Farmboy]

Another major factor that makes the ball valves superior to gate valves for seawater is simplicity. Ball valves simply require the handle to rotate the ball (as you can see, the ball valve on the left in the picture has failed in this regard - though the resistance to operating the handle is similar to the other, functioning ball valves). Gate valves require undamaged threads, both on the stem and bonnet of the valve, a good connection to the wedge, and an unobstructed seating surface, as Charlie stated. If any of these fail, the valve will no longer function properly.

As far as seacocks go, I'd rather stay with ball valves (though bronze rather than 37% zinc brass) while probably using a flanged adaptor (Groco sells them, don't know if others do)  to go from the through hull to the valve. This would make switching out a valve far easier than if a traditional seacock was used.

[CharlieJ]

Or Marelon valves. Problem with Marelon, in both ball and seacock versions, is that they have to be "exercised" once in a while or they can get sticky. Just close and open each one once in a while. The literature that comes with them  tells you this.

But then bronze valves should be also, if for no other reason than to be sure they DO work. Even bronze ones can get "sticky".

I can't say for sure, but the ones in the picture look like non-marine, brass valves to me.

But again- I solved the problem on both Tehani and Necessity with fiberglass and epoxy. Neither boat has any fittings below the waterline. Tehani has a pair of deck drains, leading to bronze ball valves, but they are above the boot top.

[s/v Faith]

A couple of ball valves that will not be returning to my boat. Can you identify the major problems?
(hope the picture shows - if not clear, a code on both these valves is "MS58")

Ah yes!  The rare 'high flow' ball valves... I had one like that.  Rare, but sadly not too rare....

Glad you got them off before you tried to close one to service the hose!

[Lost Farmboy]

Took off the one remaining old ball valve today, tried to disconnect it from the elbow. The adapter between the elbow and ball valve shattered, with the metal's appearance and way it broke reminding me of a terracotta flower pot. Bronze valves and fittings will be replacing these; I considered Marelon, but it does not inspire as much confidence in me as bronze does.

Charlie- I will be looking at moving the cockpit drains to above the waterline in the future, but would like to see how removing the inboard affects the waterline and trim prior to doing so. Previously, there was normally water just below the level of the cockpit floor in the drains, hopefully this will change.

[Lost Farmboy]

Haven't updated for a while, wish that I could say more had changed on the boat. Here's what has happened:

-Inboard diesel & related components are gone (amazing how much space there is available back there)
-Wood stove is sold, chimney replaced with mushroom vent
-Went underway for several months, while underway analyzed finances and recognized that either I could keep boat or duplex, aiming to move onto boat in late February, at which point it should be moored at local marina, all else follows from this choice
-Holes below waterline and in cockpit from head and motor closed up by boatyard (decided it was best for them to do it due to lack of experience, cool weather, and very limited available time)
-Purchased shop refurbished '73 Evinrude 6hp (22" shaft) for propulsion and outboard motor mount to put it on
-Painting bottom following preservation of keels with CRC rust converter, sealing around keel / hull joints (Life Caulk), and checking tightness of keel nuts.
-Installing 120v, 30A shore power system (2 dual outlets & expansion room on switchboard)
-Planning to start installing basic 12v system, charging to be done by shore power only initially
-Groco ball valves ordered to replace the old ones serving as seacocks
-Installing different cleats (used ones of Herreshoff type); previous cleats were some of first items to be removed due to pulling through deck; much heavier backing will be used on these

What to cook on is something that concerns me at the moment; had intended to use my old propane camp stove temporarily, but it is two wide for the space set aside. However, while cleaning out lockers today, I found the wood stove's predecessor (according to the previous owner) which I had forgotten about in one of the storage compartments (along with many more items than I would have thought). There's a picture of it attached, from my limited knowledge/understanding of these things, it is not a pressurized stove, but it uses liquid fuel. Would it be a kerosene stove? It does have small pans beneath each burner which might be for preheating. The only labels which I have seen on it thus far are on the knobs, and read "Vulcano Alemania", which I am fairly certain translates as "Volcano Germany". Does anyone know anything about these stoves, and would it probably be usable / safe?

Thanks!

[maxiSwede]

I have never heqrd of thqt brqnd for a stove. but kerosene it is not unlesss you cqn locate q pump to pressurize the fuel and a tqnk too. Kerosene neesd to be pressurised to burn with q hot blue qnd soot free flqme.

My guess is it. either propqne or alcohol then, You should be qble to figure thqt out from the look of things. like burners, fittings if qny etc..... hope this helps

[rorik]

I believe that's a WWII vintage German Army field stove. Runs on gasoline.

Start here:

http://www.spiritburner.com/fusion/showtopicforreply.php?iframe/1/fid/232/tid/29692/pid/257771/post/257771/

[CharlieJ]

I have a Vulcano stove. Had it since the early 70s. But it's a one burner and burns kerosene. Looks very different from that one.

I agree that it isn't kero- must have a pump for those. I'd bet alcohol. which used to be quite popular.

Alcohol is probably THE most expensive fuel going, for long term use.

[CharlieJ]

I believe that's a WWII vintage German Army field stove. Runs on gasoline.

Start here:

http://www.spiritburner.com/fusion/showtopicforreply.php?iframe/1/fid/232/tid/29692/pid/257771/post/257771/

Got that exact stove- runs on Kerosene. That's the one I refer to in the last post. Working to refurb it right now. Need a couple gaskets and it'll be back in use aboard Necessity.

I'd post a pic, but it says the folder is full.

[CharlieJ]

stove

[CapnK]

Noticed this in one of the spiritburner.com photos; it says "Use Only Kerosene", although somewhat illegibly, just to the left of the datestamp:

[Lost Farmboy]

Looks like it is an alcohol stove (definitely can't pressurize tank with vented cap) - functionally identical to the Vulcano 261 here: http://www.spiritburner.com/fusion/showtopic.php?tid/26809/post/new/#NEW

Probably would have been good to show the underside of mine as well.

[Lost Farmboy]

Some things have been accomplished since I last posted:

Through hulls-
Decided that trying to save money by using the old was not wise. Removed the old through hulls  and the wood backing pads, as well as the drains in the cockpit (same fittings as through hulls) and will be replacing the sink drain. Replaced with new bronze Groco through hulls, ball valves, and flanged adapters using composite decking material for backing. Added xbronze elbows and hose barbs as appropriate to reduce bending of hoses. Replaced hose for cockpit drains with Trident VAC XHD Sanitation hose (PVC reinforced vinyl), used 2x SS T-bolt hose clamps at each end of each hose to ensure secure fit. Replaced hose for sink drain with Shields Multiflex (PVC reinforced vinyl), using 2x SS AWAB hose clamps at each end of hose, planning to keep through hull shut unless required to be open for use.
Intend to switch to above the waterline cockpit drains in the future  (figured out a possible way to do it partway though work on current through  hulls.

Keels-
Spent at least 24 hours using air scaler on keels to remove the majority of the rust. Followed up with 2-3 coats of Corroseal, followed by 3 coats of Interprotect, followed by fairing compound / epoxy mixed for fairing (depending on area), following up with 3 coats of MAS epoxy with a relatively small amount of colloidal silica thickener for a barrier to moisture (2 coats complete), following with bottom paint.

Stove -
Decided that it would be best to sell the Vulcano alcohol stove and go with a gimballed single burner. Bought a Seacook stove with original propane burner, had a "leg" for one of the cooking surface supports break while trying to loosen that support to allow for adjustment, "repaired" with JB weld & reinforced other legs with same. Plan is to convert over to kerosene when an appropriate stove is found.

Topside-
Removed boards from cockpit seats - badly weathered and leaking around many bolts - filled holes
Installed cleats - 12" pair replacing the single previous anchor cleat, 10" pair replacing previous cleats aft, heavy backing blocks and improved bedding for all.

Rebedded - All chain loops (not exactly plates) for standing rigging, mast tabernacle, old diesel tank fill, and handrails

Dewatering system-
Previous 1.5" exhaust overboard is now bilge pump outlet (replaced through hull, added 90 degree street fitting and cross fitting with plans to add on as necessary to make a manifold for 2 or 3 bilge pumps to be plumbed to the same outlet using independent hoses - previous setup was pvc "T" fittings in the cockpit drain lines, with one for a manual bilge pump, one for an electric bilge pump, and both below the waterline. Bilge pumps  will initially be a manual Gusher 25, electric (using Groco pressure sensor based level detector) Jabsco pump (about 6 gpm, for removal of condensation and minor leakage while boat is docked and I am away)

Mainsail-
Purchased a used main from Masthead Sailing Gear out of St. Petersburg, FL. Main was originally for a B-25 (sailboat, not bomber) and has more features than the original main - 1 reef and a flattening reef, loose footed, cunningham , leach and foot lines - while being (if my calculations are correct) nearly identical in its measurements, which was my primary concern. Due to the mast being removed, I have not actually had the chance to see if my measurements were correct...

Mast-
Removed old anchor light, using Davis light for replacement (mounted on short piece of SS pipe epoxied into mast cap), painted cap of mast to protect epoxy (chose gray, as it is not overly different in color from the oxidized aluminum of much of the rest of the mast).
Added steaming light/foredeck light combination (no steaming light previously)
Disassembled, cleaned, and reassembled original winch on mast; will be leaving main and jib halyards at mast rather than running back to cockpit due to various reasons and will be utilizing this winch once more.
Ran wire (5 strands, independent grounds for anchor and combination lights) up mast, bound together with zip ties roughly every 2 feet (31' mast), used small marelon thru-hull to run wires out of mast, with the threaded portion to the outside; will use the same through the cabin top and run a 2-3 ft length of hose between the two to keep water out of both the mast and cabin.
Replaced plastic Seaway blocks with Tufnol blocks; like how the other Tufnol blocks and cleats have lasted for the past 40 years with minimal signs of wear.
Switching to using rivets for holding on the mast cap and foot, previously had stainless steel machine screws threaded into aluminum alloy foot and those screws that came out took the threads with them. Rivets seem more practical.

120v AC Wiring
Made the mistake of starting on installing a very small system (2 outlets + charger), did not realize until too late that I could have paid for a solar panel or two with the expenses this small system has incurred in parts. Using 6 position Blue Sea distribution/breaker panel, 2 gfci outlets with covers intended for outdoor use, Noco Genius Gen1 charger (10A maximum output, single bank; should be sufficient for group 27 battery which will support minor DC loading),  30A Marinco socket, and upon recommendation from boatyard's electrical specialist, installing hull mounted grounding block  to ground the AC safety (green) wire and negative DC wire to the water. This is to continue to provide protection if the marina (or any other boat) has incorrect or degraded wiring.

Lighting & Heating
Initially using nothing but kerosene lamps and a kerosene lantern - 2 "Fastnet" style lamps are on order for the main cabin, and a "Petromax 150 cp" knockoff lantern is also on order, also for the main cabin. The kerosene lamp (by Weems and Plath, I think) that was in the main cabin will be moved to the v-berth. An electric radiant oil heater will be used for supplemental heat as needed for the time being.
Also, due to my lack of experience with combustible lighting/cooking and associated ventilation requirements, I decided that it was prudent to purchase a CO alarm/detector; it is rated for a 7 year life, has a display of CO levels, is battery operated, and at $37 is a worthwhile investment for  learning what ventilation is required to keep CO levels at safe levels, and warning me if I failed to keep them at safe levels. I do not expect to be replacing it after the 7 years are up, as I expect to have learned what ventilation is required for safe operation of lamps, lantern, and stove by that time.

That's about it at the moment. I'd be happy to answer any questions.

[Frank]

great update....you've been busy!! any pics??

[Lost Farmboy]

Will have pictures up, once I stop forgetting and leaving my camera at the boat. It's been up there (43 miles away) for the past four days when I've meant to bring it back each time. Hopefully tomorrow later today I'll get it.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Pics would be of interest  8).

Also would be interesting to hear how you get on with the Petromax 150 cp (knockoff lantern) - I like the look of them, just read mixed reviews on the internet........

[Lost Farmboy]

Here's a couple pictures, one is a progression on refinishing the keels, the other is a view of the oddball approach that I set up for routing bilge pump hoses. The photos are thumbnails, click to enlarge.



Progression of Centaur keels (from top left, pictures vary between port & stbd keels): 1) before starting work, with exception of running needlegun along top edge  2) after one pass with the needlegun  3) after two passes with the needlegun  4) immediately after applying Corroseal (rust converter)  5) after Corroseal dried (used about 4 or 5 coats total)  6) after application of Interprotect (3 coats)  7) after fairing completed, and three coats of MAS epoxy with colloidal silica applied  8) after Amercoat 671 (if I recall correctly) was painted over the epoxy



Future hose run for bilge pumps, inside cockpit locker - on right, manifold of 1.5" bronze, using (replacement) through transom/hull fitting, previously intended for engine exhaust. Vertical 5" sections of bronze (1.5" one visible, 1/2" one blocked from view) used to reduce possibility of backflow down another pump's hose as the same overboard fitting is used for both pumps. Plugged fitting visible to camera is for future expansion.  - on left, 4" PVC is fitted to a closet (toilet) flange bolted to matching flange below (both with stainless steel bolts between their stainless steel rings to prevent ingress of water into cabin/engine compartment from locker. Engine exhaust hose was previously routed through smaller, broken off pipe that was mounted in the same location.

I'd be happy to answer questions about either, and will post more pictures at a later time.

edits: added blurb about thumbnails, added descriptions lost in transfer to Imageshack, disabled smileys to permit " 8) " to show correctly

[Frank]

Thanks for the pics....the keel looks great!!  Grog to ya