Porter's Boat Search

[Porter Wayfare]

FWIW dont tell someone that their boat "doesn`t suit your eye".

Noted. Sheepishly.

[Jim_ME]

The CD25 that I chartered was a dinette version, which has the advantage of extending the seating area out from under the side decks [to the area] under the cabin trunk. I am 6 feet tall and found it to be comfortable. However most of the CD25s that I`ve seen do have the settee berths layout. I`m puzzled about why this is, as I personally favor the dinette layout. Perhaps, the dinette may seem to extend into the cabin space more and diminish the feeling of space. The double berth that the dinette converts into may be less versatile than the individual settee berths. The settees would be better sea berths on passages, but for typical coastal cruising, the dinette seems to me to have many advantages.

I recall reading somewhere that when Cape Dory got the molds from Allied, they added 3 inches to the hull freeboard height (which added 9 inches to the LOA), so they must have recognized that this was an issue and tired to mitigate it somewhat. The boat displacement also went from about 3300 pounds (same as the Sea Sprite 23) to 4000 pounds. The designs in this range that are considered more comfortable--CD25D, CD26, Ariel26, Meridian25/26, are all over 5,000 lbs, so the CD25 was probably more of a compromise from a smaller boat (the Greenwich 24) that may have been intended to be more of a Sea-Sprite-like weekender than a true small cruiser like its bigger sisters.

Often in my experience, my choice was cost driven, there seem to be some of the Allied Greenwich 24s and CD25s on the market for relatively low prices, such as this one for $2,000 whereas a CD25D would usually cost 5 to 10 times that. So even though it was indeed a compromise, there were also benefits. In my experience, it worked well to keep the total cost of the boat on the more affordable end of the cost spectrum, especially initially. After a few years, if everyone is positive on committing more of the household budget to sailing, then it is done with a commitment based on some real experience. I made the mistake of getting too large and expensive a boat initially, and that can impose a cost-benefit calculation aspect to the experience that can prevent the love of sailing from ever taking root. My advice is not only to keep it simple, but to err on the side of keeping it comfortably affordable, especially in the beginning.

[skylark]

Come on down to South Haven and take a look at my Tanzer 28.  It is a modern design but has plenty of room for a liveaboard.  The price is pretty good too.

http://cruisenews.net/tanzer/03VII2009/

[Cruise]

Paraphrase from other replies:  
 "Sailfar is a good innoculation of that dreaded two-foot-itis disease."

 Sailfar might be a good inoculation, but I think that the only cure comes after one upgrades to the point of incompetence. That comes when you have your nice big boat loaded with gadgets and a nice day comes along and you can't find crew to help you sail her.
 I've seen that in Oriental a lot. I will be talking to folks, mentioning that the weather is nice and that I plan to sail across the Pamlico Sound out to Ocracoke, and a person with a boat in the 40 foot range will say that he would like to go if he can find crew.

 As for your boat search Porter, you mentioned Albin Vegas in your original post? They won't be the easiest boat to trailer and launch, but I don't think that they will be the hardest either - no harder than some of the other keelboats that you have mentioned.
 The Vega is 27' with an 8.0' beam. and the draft is 3'10". Also, the boat only weighs 5070 lbs. If you run the numbers on a Vega, it wouldn't seem that the Vega would be as good of a sea boat as she really is, but with 3000 boats built and many circumnavigations under their keels, real sea experience speaks for itself. (In the book 20 Small Sailboats to Take you Anywhere, the author ranks her sixth overall, right between the Westsail 32 and the Southern Cross 31).
 I lived on a cruised on a Vega for years, and she was a great boat. Mine had the diesel removed which added a great amount of storage, and she had 5'10"  headroom. (She also has the most clever table design that I have seen, one that can be mounted in the salon or cockpit).
 With so many Vegas built, they are usually not hard to find used ones for sail.
 Well, enjoy your searching, and hold out for the right boat, understanding that there is no such thing as the 'perfect' boat (except maybe my Allied Seawind  ;) )

[Porter Wayfare]

Cruise,
When I look at the Vega I wonder about the cockpit coaming holding a lot of water. What's your take? Otherwise, yes it's very nice.

[Cruise]

Hey Porter,
The coaming never worried me at all - in fact it is a great help in keeping water out of the cockpit. Here is what the above mentioned book says on the subject, "The cockpit is self-bailing and small enough not to cause concern about pooping, but big enough for two people not to get in each other's way on long trips".

[s/v necessity]

Porter- just keep looking. You won't find the boat- the boat will find you. You'll climb into one or another and the boat will say "THIS IS IT!!!"

Just remember that if you dont go alone a boat might find your significant other first! :)  That's what happened to me.  I decided that it was worthwhile for it to be my "wife's boat" though.  Now she has an investment in this whole sailing thing!  I just wish she had fallen in love with someting in better shape.

[Cruise]

Porter- just keep looking. You won't find the boat- the boat will find you. You'll climb into one or another and the boat will say "THIS IS IT!!!"

The man has a great point. I swear that when I first saw my current boat, the Allied Seawind, I had the feeling that the boat wanted me as much as I wanted her. Sounds kinda weird, but it does happen, and you will know it when it does. 

[Porter Wayfare]

You guys make it sound almost cosmic. I once had a couple of horses I felt that way about. I had a tractor I really liked too, but it wasn't what I'd call cosmic.

I am becoming increasingly interested in a Rhodes Meridian, though. But I heard or read somewhere to stay away from late 60s and onward versions. I cannot remember why. Do any of you know what that may be about?

And how much trouble is the iron ballast?

I do know something about getting knocked over the head. At the risk of going way off topic, here is a poem I wrote about it.

Exceeding a Cosmological Absolute

Well before the golden fall light that fell
on your cheek when you stepped from the shadows
got itself turned around and started on its way
to my eyes where I would receive
my first and forever stunning glimpse of you
my heart was already at your feet.

OK.
Porter

[CharlieJ]

Tehani is 52 years old and the cast iron keel is still intact.

I coated it with coal tar epoxy.

[Porter Wayfare]

Greetings,
I could really use some perspective on a Paceship Eastwind 25. They look really good to me, but I'm having trouble finding out anything about them. Built in Montreal about 1962 through 1971 or so. Full keel. Compares really favorably to a CD 26 on Sail Calculator site. An bit odd cabin profile....

Here's hoping somebody knows something!
Porter

[Jim_ME]

Here is a boat that you might want to look at...[in your area?]

It is an O`Day 25 on a tandem trailer...
http://swmi.craigslist.org/boa/2823602600.html

It is a design that I considered for a trailer-sailer, mostly for the room it provides in a 3962 lbs (see specs here, similar weight to the Allied Greenwitch 24/Cape Dory 25), and has the advantage of the shoal keel/centerboard design (I believe that it is 2-ft-6-in draft with board up). With its 8 foot beam, it has a roomier cabin, that you may find acceptable. Granted, it is no Alberg, but it might be a reasonable compromise, leaning toward trailerability--especially for the price. Not Cape Dory build quality, but I had an ODay Rhodes Mariner 19, and I thought that it was good. [Others here may be able to offer an opinion based on their experience.]

I noticed that the ad states that Any serious offer will be considered.

There were ads for several here in Southern Maine recently, including a 1976 keel/cb model (without trailer) reported to be in very good condition for $1200.
[Update: I had saved the phone number of the seller and called this afternoon to see if it was still available. It is, even though the ad had expired. He has a galvanized tandem trailer setup for an ODay 25 that he had planned to keep, but might also sell for an additional $1500. If you should want his phone number just PM me and I can send it to you. May be too far away, but perhaps useful as a comp reference?]

I think that you can get a good used galvanized tandem to carry that weight for $1000 to $1500. You may be able to find other sister boats online for comparables to help in evaluating what a good reasonable offer might be.  

Here is another boat that might be worth considering if easier trailering was a priority...an ODay 23 (specs here)
http://boston.craigslist.org/nos/boa/2869993034.html
Near Boston, MA, but on a trailer and towable.

[Porter Wayfare]

Greetings all!

First to Jim_ME,
If I have to take care of it, and that looks to be the case, then I need a more traditional looking boat than the O'Days to induce me to do it, but thank you for the thought. Sincerely.

And to the rest of you: So, then does anyone have any experience with the S&S Capri 26' built by Chris Craft? Here is a link to the specs: http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=578

I may have a line on one. It looks like a Meridian knock-off, doesn't it?

The water is starting to melt around here in the Thumb of Michigan. I'd say that's about three weeks early.

Porter

[Captain Smollett]

And to the rest of you: So, then does anyone have any experience with the S&S Capri 26' built by Chris Craft? Here is a link to the specs: http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=578

I may have a line on one. It looks like a Meridian knock-off, doesn't it?

Keel shape is off to be a Meridian knock-off.

I knew a guy with a Chris Craft 26' and while I'm not sure, I do think it was a Capri.  If so, nice boat and seemed well built.  I'd think one could hardly go wrong with an S&S design at any rate.

[CharlieJ]

Kinda resembles on top, but it's a much lighter boat and is a fin keel at 3920 disp. Meridian is 5300 dry and full keeled. Interior is way different also.

Not knocking the boat, understand- just pointing  out differences. Could be a really nice boat. Don't know anything about them though.

[Porter Wayfare]

Yes, I see what you mean. I was looking mainly at the above water profile.

Here's a question. I'm also looking at a Pacific Seacraft Flicka, LWL about 18'. I imagine almost all my sailing will be on the Great Lakes. Am I right in understanding that the waves on the Great Lakes are generally shorter and choppier? And if so, am I setting myself up for a miserable ride with such a short boat as the Flicka? It looks like it would have a pretty good tendency to hobbyhorse, if that's what you call it. But it sure looks like a nice boat.

Porter

[Oldrig]

I'm also looking at a Pacific Seacraft Flicka, LWL about 18'.

Porter,
The Flicka is a wonderfully seaworthy little boat--I believe several have made it around the world and, if not, I know that more than one has crossed the Atlantic. It is also supposed to be very slow and, because of its short waterline, not terribly comfortable in severe conditions. Also, Pacific Seacraft boats, especially early ones, were superbly constructed.

I tried to find an affordable Flicka when I ended up with my Cape Dory 25D (also called the "East Coast Flicka"). I sail my boat on Buzzards Bay, which, like the Great Lakes, has short "square" waves. Maybe it's because I grew up sailing those waters, but I find my Cape Dory handles the chop beautifully.

BTW, my boat's waterline is 19'.

Once again, good luck in your search.

--Joe

[Mario G]

http://www.seafaring.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24070

not trailerable but these seem like great deals

[Mario G]

Theres a 19' " Adrian" catboat for sale near the Vero beach city marina forsale with trailer.

[Porter Wayfare]

Mario,
I'm not much for catboats, but thanks for the thought.
Porter