Ariel owners (or knowlegable thereof) I need help

[Tim]

My companionway hatch had been reworked when the dodger was put on and now I am trying to get it back to original (or close) I have tried to search the Ariel website for a pic to no avail, and am loathed to have Bill harangue me if I asked so I thought I would try here first.

As you can see from this photo there is nothing to keep the sliding hatch from lifting off.

What gives?

[Capt. Tony]

Tim,

I will pull out a couple of my CDs loaded with photos and see if I have a clear shot of the original set up.  It will take a day or two as I am working out of town the next two days.

[Tim]

Thanks Tony, no pressure at the speed I am getting this done

[Frank]

hope this pic helps

[Jim_ME]

Tim, I just took a look at my Corinthian 19 hatch slides hardware, and it seems to be a similar design, so I took a couple photos--maybe they will be of some help.

It has the stainless steel 1/8" x 1+" flat bar slide rail that is fastened to the fiberglass hatch combing with screws and extends outboard of it to create a flange.

In the first photo you can see the ss flatbar, and on top of it is a strip of what appears to be wood. It is attached to the hatch and slides with it along the top of the bar. I cannot see how it is attached to the hatch. There are no fastener heads visible on the top (outside) of the hatch. Perhaps the strip is glues to the hatch with FG resin?

In the second photo you can see that there is another metal strip, the part of it that is visible shows an "L" (angle section) with one leg vertical against the outer edge of the wood strip, and another leg around the edge and horizontal under the ss flat bar flange, which holds (clips) the hatch to the ss flat bar. I cannot see how this metal L strip is fastened to the wood strip. Possibly it is (was) screwed along its edge before the wood strip was glued/fasted to the hatch. The downward turned edge of the FG hatch now covers this area, so I cannot look at that face of the L shape and wood strip.

Someone else may have taken their hatch off and know how these are fastened. If no one does, I can take my hatch off and get a better look.

It looks like your hatch may be missing the wood strips and metal L keeper strips? If you cannot see any evidence of how they we fastened, that might support the theory that the wood strip was glued to the FG hatch?

On my boat the wood strip ends a couple inches short of the aft end of the hatch (and the ss flat bar rail beneath it), which is puzzling, since I would have expected it to be the same length/extend to the aft edge of the hatch, since that would provide the hatch with support all the way aft. Maybe there is a reason that it doesn't that I don't yet understand?

I can see from Frank's photos that the Ariel has a wider teak rail and the sliding mechanisms are covered inboard with a piece of teak trim, which the Corinthian lacks (or maybe mine has been painted white, but is beneath the slider rail and leaves its edge exposed).  You can see from the photos of his boat that the FG hatch sits up off the slider rail bar (whereas yours is sitting directly on it) so his must have other similar slider and keeper strips attached to the underside of the FG hatch.

[Update: It does not seem that I can remove my hatch by sliding it off the rails aftward, since the forward FG hatch downward flange hits the upward combing. Nor can it slide off forward, since the hatch hits the mast step base (on my boat), and it looks like that at the aft underside of the hatch would also hit the forward combing. All that I can think off is that I would have to remove one of the ss slider flat bars, removing a couple screws, then sliding the hatch and removing the rest, and then that side of the hatch would lift off with the slider bar and I could move the hatch sideways so that the keeper L would disengage from the other slider flat bar flange/edge. Maybe there is an easier way to remove the hatch, but if there is, I don't see how.]    

[Tim]

Thanks guys, so far it looks like there should be a couple of wood strips attached to the hatch that would create a slot for that metal rail to sit in. This is kinda what I was thinking I would have to do. Unfortunately with the current sea hood on, I have no idea how I would put it together.

[Jim_ME]

Tim, Here's a rough (not to scale) sketch of what I seem to have on my Corinthian...

[Tim]

Wow Jim, that is great. A grog for you! Clearly I will have have to figure out away of putting it on in spite of the seahood, but that  looks like the right way to do it.

[Tim]

 :o  :'(  Looking back at my photo, I have this sinking feeling I am going to have to redo the seahood. I sure wish the PO had taken a little more time to do this stuff right  >:(

[Captain Smollett]

It has the stainless steel 1/8" x 1+" flat bar slide rail that is fastened to the fiberglass hatch combing with screws and extends outboard of it to create a flange.

In the first photo you can see the ss flatbar, and on top of it is a strip of what appears to be wood. It is attached to the hatch and slides with it along the top of the bar. I cannot see how it is attached to the hatch. There are no fastener heads visible on the top (outside) of the hatch. Perhaps the strip is glues to the hatch with FG resin?

In the second photo you can see that there is another metal strip, the part of it that is visible shows an "L" (angle section) with one leg vertical against the outer edge of the wood strip, and another leg around the edge and horizontal under the ss flat bar flange, which holds (clips) the hatch to the ss flat bar. I cannot see how this metal L strip is fastened to the wood strip. Possibly it is (was) screwed along its edge before the wood strip was glued/fasted to the hatch. The downward turned edge of the FG hatch now covers this area, so I cannot look at that face of the L shape and wood strip.

This is a very similar set-up, though not exact, to my Alberg 30.  My sliding hatch does not have the strip of wood that rides on the metal track, nor the metal "L" piece.  However, the "L" is molded into the hatch itself, so mechanical concept is the same.

[Update: It does not seem that I can remove my hatch by sliding it off the rails aftward, since the forward FG hatch downward flange hits the upward combing. Nor can it slide off forward, since the hatch hits the mast step base (on my boat), and it looks like that at the aft underside of the hatch would also hit the forward combing. All that I can think off is that I would have to remove one of the ss slider flat bars, removing a couple screws, then sliding the hatch and removing the rest, and then that side of the hatch would lift off with the slider bar and I could move the hatch sideways so that the keeper L would disengage from the other slider flat bar flange/edge. Maybe there is an easier way to remove the hatch, but if there is, I don't see how.]    

Because of the "L" lip going 'around' the metal track, I cannot remove my hatch by lifting it upwards.

It will not slide off aft:

(1) The hatch molding stops the aftward movement, but this is easy to remove.

(2) At the forward end of the hatch, there is a piece of wood screwed to the sliding cover that catches on the forward coaming of the hatch opening.  This would have to be removed as well to remove the slide hatch cover by slide aft.

Now, as for (2), it USUALLY resides inside the sea hood.  Thus, there is typically no convenient way to remove the sliding hatch on my Alberg 30.  I happen to have the sea hood off right now, so I have access to that forward blocking piece.  Obviously, the sea hood prevents it from sliding forward, but so does the shape of the aft end of the hatch itself (again, would hit the forward coaming of the hatch opening).

But, even though the sea hood prevents removal of the sliding cover, the cover itself is 'attached' to the boat independently of the sea hood.  It gets none of its strength or 'integrity' from the sea hood.  The hood is just that...a hood.

I'd be suspect of a design that required the hood to "hold" the hatch cover on or that relies 100% on watertightness of the hood.  In my opinion, the hood should augment an already "okay" design, only adding to the dryness of the hatch.

I'm not making myself very clear, but I guess I'm saying that in the photo you showed, Tim, it looks to me like there's nothing holding the hatch on or preventing water ingress.  Personally, I'd fix that and make it "right enough," then independent of that decide if I want to reattach a sea hood (I would as I'm a fan).

[Captain Smollett]

Okay, one thing I see that I misunderstood...I thought you already had the sea hood off and were wondering if you should reinstall it.  Now I get that it's there and you don't want to HAVE to remove it.

Sorry.

[Tim]

Needless to say the hatch cover was NOT secured on independently and the only thing keeping it from being removed was that aft end of the seahood was overlapping and fairly tight. Which now makes it impossible to correct the sliding mechanism without redoing the hatch.

[Jim_ME]

You're welcome, Tim.

Looking at the (apparent) design on my Corinthian, I'm not thrilled with the way the metal keeper L strip is fastened to the edge of the wood rub strip, and then that wood strip appears to be glued to the underside of the hatch.

If I was starting from scratch, I would think that I would consider a heavy rail of hardwood/teak with a rabbet for the ss slider flat bar strip, fastened with staggered ss screws through the FG hatch, something like this...

If the original design was relying on the strength of the 1/4" wood strip, and the metal L strip being screwed to the edge of it, wouldn't a heftier strip of wood as a keeper, with mechanical fasteners be at least as strong? If the strips are removable with the screws, it might also provide an alternative way of removing the hatch. Or you could glue and screw the wood strip to the hatch and remove one of the ss flat bar to remove the hatch, as before? [Again, I'm starting with a design for a 19.5-ft boat, and maybe the larger Albergs already have a more robust design, as John may be saying?]  

[Tim]

Yes, that is what I am thinking some kind of removable keeper strips. I am still going to have to redo the seahood as it won't allow the added height when the wood guide strip are glues onto the hatchcover, but something like that will allow the installation after the seahood is in place. Great drawings Jim, you obviously have some experience in this field.

[Jim_ME]

Thanks, Tim. Glad to help. Good luck with your work on it.