Long term (ish) boat "rental" in Europe - of interest? / how much?

[David_Old_Jersey]

Early doors on this - but am kicking over a couple of ideas that might fit in with having a boat (or 2?!) available for extended use by others. Not my own though! Amongst other things am looking into setting up a sailing charity for low and no income sailors locally (with the emphasis on folks who want to simply mess around in boats, rather than the organised end of things - let alone racing) - the boats (2 or 3?) would likely be sub 23 foot and used locally on a daily / weekend basis. However once (if! at the moment) that was set up might be possible to include 1 or 2 larger vessels into the fleet, by larger I am talking 27 to 30 foot and likely from the 60's / 70's (i.e. cheap and also robust - at the price of all mod cons and possibly some performance).

For the larger boats am not looking at a fully commercial or a Moorings style charter operation (or vessels!), more towards the Sailfar style and basically equipped - for folk to "rent" for a year (or even 2), nonetheless the boats would have to be self funding in operation (plus at least some beer money / funding into the Charity).

Obviously no decisions will be made based on what a few folk on the internet say, nonetheless I would be very interested in what others think of the idea - whether for self or in general, especially on how much would be willing to at least consider.

The rough idea is:-

Boat around 27 ? 30 foot
Very basically equipped (for coastal cruising and not transocean) ? the Renter could nonetheless add things if they wished (whether by self or by funding upgrades in advance ? details of how that would work still to be puzzled through). By basic will likely not include any electronics or a fridge. Likely a cooker and a Khazi though.
Boats would have bilge keels (otherwise would need to be marina based here  - and for that the numbers would not add up)
Boats would be based in Northern Europe (Here in Jersey ? English speaking, but only 15 miles from France) ? but would be allowed to travel anywhere in Europe including the Med and possibly also on a 1 way trip (details also still be puzzled over).
Boats would be good for at least 2 people to live on (possibly also a couple of kids) for extended periods nonetheless they would not be ?modern? layouts and space (i.e with beams half the length of the boat!) but nonetheless above camping afloat (and likely to have full headroom ? apart from for basketball players ? at least somewhere in the saloon). Therefore would be a niche sailfar style market.
Cost is the biggie, am pretty sure that FREE would work, just that it could not be done for that. Am thinking in the ballpark of a couple of thousand a year, maybe cheaper for the 2nd year, but the contingencies for (non-insured) damage would also need to be puzzled through ? especially on things like the engine.
Obviously the figures I am talking about don?t allow for a boat to be made into and then kept fully coded for charter ? my intended workaround is that the renter gets joint ownership (percentage to be decided) with the buyback paperwork sorted in advance. I still have a bit more work to do on that side, but am 99% would be all kosher given the length of time of the usage period.

Anyway, as I said, all thoughts welcome.

[Equator]

An interseting concept. From my point of view, it would be more useful to have a three month rental term available. That's all the time a non-EU person can spend in the EU without jumping through the visa hoops.

Would sticking to outboard motors simplify things? I like the idea of keeping it "small boat" and simple. I would assume you'd have to outfit the boat with the basic safety gear, of course. Additional gear that a traveller would not necessarily bring with them could be offered for rent.

Another option would be to have someone purchase a boat and then donate it to the charity. The charity would provide the basic maintenance for the boat and would have it available for its use for nine months. The donor would be able to use the boat for three months of the year.

Stephan Knopf does something similar with motorcycles out of Heidelberg, Germany although his is a commercial operation. In addition to bike storage and rentals, he offers a comprehensive package of short term health and accident insurance, roadside assistance and emergency coverage, etc. He rents luggage, gps's, cell phones, and protective gear as well. www.knopftours.com

Pete

[David_Old_Jersey]

An interesting concept. From my point of view, it would be more useful to have a three month rental term available. That's all the time a non-EU person can spend in the EU without jumping through the visa hoops.

Fair point ? but that fits in with the overall concept of not being for everybody. But IIRC, 90 days is the Schengen Visa thing. Not everyone in the EU falls under that and even those that do have own visa schemes. And of course not every bit of Europe is in the EU. If this ever gets off the ground it will be one of the things I look at closely and poke on a website to present options for folks even if those do involve applying for Visas.

Would sticking to outboard motors simplify things? I like the idea of keeping it "small boat" and simple.

Yes ? and outboard will be the route for the smaller charity boats, albeit possible that one of these could go out on a long term deal. But for larger I am not so sure that outboard would be the best way, certainly one to mull over a bit more.

I would assume you'd have to outfit the boat with the basic safety gear, of course. Additional gear that a traveller would not necessarily bring with them could be offered for rent.

The boats will be fully equipped with ALL safety gear as required by the Flag she is registered under. As that will be the British Flag and a non-commercial operation as the person renting is actually a co-owner that means SFA. And same goes for Skipper qualifications, albeit for some places you visit a piece of paper may be useful in practice even though not actually required in theory.

My thinking is that most / all will require some safety gear but what is a matter of personal choice. IMO too expensive to fully load a boat just in case, folks can have onboard whatever they want. And go and buy it themselves, whether new or secondhand from e-bay or even from me or own gear brought with them. On that side am thinking of allowing people to use my own address as a delivery place in advance of arrival, including for E-bay items so no need to rush around for a week after arrival trying to buy and then fit everything. The boat will probably be wired up for most things electric / electronic so the installs should not take too long. Might even offer a guaranteed in advance deal for the equipment at the end of the rental or ability to use my address to e-bay items or just help on getting the stuff shipped home, but more thought required on all that. The idea with the people owning the equipment is that breakages are not my problem and folks can fit as little as they need rather than paying more for a boat that has stuff they don?t want.

Another option would be to have someone purchase a boat and then donate it to the charity. The charity would provide the basic maintenance for the boat and would have it available for its use for nine months. The donor would be able to use the boat for three months of the year.

Certainly something to think over ? am mulling over something similar for the smaller boats, albeit no 3 month solid deal for those.

One of the big potential problems are boats going on 1 way trips to places like the Med and presently thinking my way through that. The principle is no problem it is just that away from home the boat becomes more expensive and difficult to look after and also to moor or store. Am thinking of something like charging a relocation fee in advance, refundable when boat returned home but a return home likely would only work for 6 month or 2 year or 2 season rentals. More puzzling for me.

Stephan Knopf does something similar with motorcycles out of Heidelberg, Germany although his is a commercial operation. In addition to bike storage and rentals, he offers a comprehensive package of short term health and accident insurance, roadside assistance and emergency coverage, etc. He rents luggage, gps's, cell phones, and protective gear as well. www.knopftours.com

Pete

Cheers for that, am having a read through.