Anchors, anchors again, & more anchors....

[s/v Faith]

A rock tied to a stick?   ;D

....Given my current understanding I won't buy anything from Manson....

FWIW, 

  I take the exact opposite position. 

I believe TOOYBRN is at least as good as the Manson Supreme.  I would never own one though.

  What I know about TOOYBRN are the propaganda streams that have flowed across the internet... I looked at one and even priced one.  I bought a Manson Supreme because I liked the design, it was less expensive, and had better certification (something other then the word of the mfg, and some altered anchor tests). 

  In 2 years of use, and 8 months of cruising my Manson Supreme never failed to set, and we never drug (dragged) once.  I am happy with what I have and comfortable recommending it to anyone.

  The nice thing is Dave, I don't hold it against you at all.. as a matter of fact I still think you are a pretty good guy and would love to run into you out there some day_{... hopefully not as you are dragging down on me in some anchorage some night...}  ;D ;) :D :o :) ;) :D ;D

TOOYBRN: The One On Your  (Daves) Bow Right Now

[AdriftAtSea]

Hmmm... That doesn't leave too many contenders out there.  As for Dave dragging... I doubt that's likely, since he's got a Rocna as his primary.  From my experience with mine, they stay put where you put them... got a bite like a hungry pit bull on a porterhouse steak.

As Dave has pointed out, the Hydrobubble looks like a junkie gimmick.  If it really depends on the bubble to set properly, what happens to it if the bubble breaks???  Also, doesn't the bubble make it "weigh" less under water?  If so, wouldn't that affect its ability to hold or set in some conditions, requiring it to be sized up compared to a less buoyant anchor. 

He doesn't mention the Buegel, Wasi or Sarca.  I doubt it is one of them, due to the stowage issue.  He's not getting a Manson Supreme... he's made that pretty clear. :)  The XYZ is a pretty big anchor, given its massive fluke size—and AFAIK, doesn't fold or disassemble.

He said it wasn't a Bulwagga—which is probably the hardest to stow of all the new designs. It also has a single point of failure, where the moving stock joins the blades, and one blade is always vertical, possibly presenting something that could foul the rode in a reversing current/wind situation.

He said it wasn't a Spade—mainly due to seller reliability issues.

He said it wasn't an Ancora Latina Raya or Raya Tempest, although the Raya Tempest does come apart according to their website.

It's not the Delta, which is the best of the "old school" anchors.  The Bruce isn't made anymore, and the CQR is just ridiculously priced given its performance. 

The Danforth, Fortress and other fluke anchors aren't good choices for a primary.  Either are fisherman style anchors. 

So what is left????  I can't think of a next generation anchor that isn't listed.  I'm stumped... I guess we're gonna have to wait 'til Dave posts some pics.

[s/v Faith]

super max?

  It kind of comes apart...  ???

[CapnK]

Bulwagga's *rock*. Argue with me all you want, but I would lay odds that if you do, you've never set one off yer bow. They grab fast, and hold *great*. Something that does that, doesn't need to be stowed - it needs to be ready to use, and used fast, if need be. :)

On to the parent topic: Did you ever consider that maybe Dave could be speaking metaphorically...?

Who is she, Dave, where did you meet her, and how did you talk her into coming onto your boat?

;D ;D ;D

* CapnK ducks and runs...

[Auspicious]

....Given my current understanding I won't buy anything from Manson....

I take the exact opposite position. 

And I will defend your right to your opinion with great vigor. I won't even try to convince you of my opinion.

I know that Craig has managed to tick off a lot of people. I think it is unfortunate because most of the content of most of his posts really contributes. He turns a phrase in ways that many find ... unfortunate. *grin*

Hmmm... That doesn't leave too many contenders out there.  As for Dave dragging... I doubt that's likely, since he's got a Rocna as his primary.

Thanks Dan. I do still believe that skill is more important than the lump of metal on the end of the rode. Better anchors are better, and reduce the criticality of skill, but skill is still a significant factor.

By the way, I firmly believe that a secondary should be just as good as the primary.

He doesn't mention the Buegel, Wasi or Sarca.  I doubt it is one of them, due to the stowage issue.

Correct.

The XYZ is a pretty big anchor, given its massive fluke size—and AFAIK, doesn't fold or disassemble.

Agreed, although with a big cockpit locker it wouldn't be as tough to stow as most one-piece anchors.

He said it wasn't an Ancora Latina Raya or Raya Tempest, although the Raya Tempest does come apart according to their website.

It came pretty close. I was ready to pull the trigger on a Raya Tempest. I will be back in touch with them to see if they are interested in some empirical testing but I won't be putting my own money in.

Bulwagga's *rock*. Argue with me all you want, but I would lay odds that if you do, you've never set one off yer bow.

I won't begin to argue with you. I like the concept, but not the stowage space (remember I have a primary already that 1. I have confidence in and 2. won't stow easily. I would like to try one someday just for the experience. As noted however, that vertical fluke does give me some concern about holding in reversing currents. It may not be a problem but my gut says it might be.

Did you ever consider that maybe Dave could be speaking metaphorically...?

Nice. You have just as warped a sense of humor as I do. I knew I like you. *grin*

Who is she, Dave, where did you meet her, and how did you talk her into coming onto your boat?

Well, as it happens, her name is Janet, I met her in a bar while I was doing laundry, and she loves sailing. That is entirely independent of my new secondary anchor.

You guys have essentially duplicated my thought process in making a selection. It would appear that there is one tiny piece of information I have that you don't have. I'm confident that if any of you had it you would *know* you had the right answer.

I still need to figure out some prize or reward in case someone figures it out ...

sail fast, dave
S/V Auspicious

[CapnK]

Jordan series drogue, or a chute, then...?  ;D

[Auspicious]

Jordan series drogue, or a chute, then...?  ;D

Just as I said -- a warped sense of humor.  ;D

[s/v Faith]

Is it one of those weird hinged 'box' type anchors that fold flat?

[Tim]

Is it one of those weird hinged 'box' type anchors that fold flat?

LOL, Well it certainly fits the "stowable" criteria  ;D

[Auspicious]

I think I'm a little too conservative to pick anything that is aptly described as weird.  ;)

[s/v Faith]

I think I'm a little too conservative to pick anything that is aptly described as weird.  ;)

Sorry Dave... Maybe I should have said 'unusual'.  ;)

  I saw a chromed folding box anchor at WM the other day.  I thought it was clever, but not something I would be interested in.

 

[AdriftAtSea]

So basically, he's withholding key information... GRR!!!!

The folding box anchors were reviewed in a couple of magazines, and the universal opinion was a plastic milk crate with rocks in it would work better IIRC.

Janet may be more of a drogue than an anchor... ;)

Hmm...

[Auspicious]

Janet may be more of a drogue than an anchor... ;)

Ha. I win. Janet is not only sufficiently concerned about my back as to do almost all the grinding (I still reef the main), she is getting darned good ar driving the boat. She went out with me last January on a 19F day, but has expressed an interest in avoiding such weather in future. *grin*

We have had a minor issue with the dinghy, so even when she is driving the dinghy *I* wear the little red safety cord.

At some point I expect she'll hook up with Laura and then the guys had better all watch out...

[AdriftAtSea]

At some point I expect she'll hook up with Laura and then the guys had better all watch out...

Or Connie... :)

[Auspicious]

The shipping folks indicate my new anchor should arrive at their depot sometime on Tuesday the 23rd. With travel, family stuff, and the holiday it's likely I won't be able to pick it up until Friday. Everyone will just have to wait until the weekend for pictures...

Hope there are lots of boat goodies under everyone's trees.

sail fast, dave
S/V Auspicious

[Fortis]

COuld it be the new SARCA II? I thought they were still mnostly twidling with the prototypes, but that info is nearly a year old, so they may have released them.

Essentially it is the trad SARCA anchour (brilliant, but not readily storable on a small boat), except that the shank detaches from the blade and the hoop fold down along the blade for stowage. The whole thing then locks back togetehr and is ready to deploy in under a minute and with no tools on deck or small connector parts to drop overboard. It is apparently impossible to have one come apart when deployed as the metal would actually tear apart before the connection points sheared or failed.

Sounds interesting, but I have never seen more then drawings and a short animation.

[AdriftAtSea]

Hmm... Well, he should have it by now, unless someone hijacked the truck... so we'll find out shortly. :)

[Auspicious]

There was an airplane and customs in the way. I'm still trying to track it down. The holidays haven't helped any. Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to close on the issue.

[Auspicious]

Apparently I'm an idiot.

My new anchor has been sitting in United Cargo bonded storage since the 23rd. I've sent containers of stuff through customs of other countries but I can't get a stinking anchor through our own? Aaaargh.

So anyway now I have all the proper guidance from some truly helpful folk at US Customs at BWI. I'll go up Monday to pay the ransom (they actually think it will not be dutiable -- cool beans!) and bring it home. Pictures and info to follow.

You'll get it here first on SailFar.net!

sail fast, dave
S/V Auspicious

[AdriftAtSea]

LOL... gotta love DHS... :) and how efficient they are.