Propane camp stoves, refillable bottles..

[lastgreatgeneration]

So for a while now I have been using a Coleman camp stove with the propane bottles that run about $6 for a 2 pack. I have been exploring looking into a propane stove setup for the next boat and I keep coming back to simplicity. I wonder if it would be worth carrying around a tank and then decant propane into a smaller 1 Pound containers. So far I use about 1 pound of propane every week or so.

I know someone that has done this for camping purposes and they say that you cannot entirely fill the smaller container but it worked well and you just had to fill it more often. I have also been exploring kerosene setups as I plan on having a diesel/kerosene heater and kerosene lamps. I would like to keep all of the systems kerosene but propane is nice to cook with.

However the cost of retrofitting propane hose, sniffer and cooktop would be quite expensive, so I'm looking for alternatives. I was thinking on a small boat limit the fuels to gasoline/kerosene or just diesel/kerosene.

I read the thread about the kerosene cook stoves and it doesn't look like there are many options. I like the diesel fired Dickinson floor mounted heater with the cooktop, it would be handy in the wintertime.

Thanks.

[cap-couillon]

Wouldn't like refilling bottles on board... to much chance for a leak and a later boom... Make for a bad day.  Propane is nice for the speed though (if your'e in a hurry) 

I like my Origo alcohol stove.  Basically just a couple of giant sterno cans. Quiet, safe (you can put it out with water if needs be) a gallon of denatured alcohol lasts me a month or better on average cooking coffee in the morning and supper in the evening. Slower than propane but a couple extra minutes to bring the soup to a boil is not a big deal in my world.

Haunt e-bay and craigs list... Got my 2 burner "drop-in" for around a hundred bucks. 

E-bay Listing Here

[SailorTom]

We used a Coleman camp stove for a year or so before buying a way overpriced "marine" stove/oven. I'll not waste money on that rig again >:(

For the Coleman I bought an adapter line that allowed me to connect a 10lb refillable LPG bottle to the Coleman 1lb connector. IIRC I bought it at Wal-Mart and the cost was more then covered by the cheaper cost of refilling the 10lb bottle then the throwaway 1lbs. At the time(2010) 10lbs of LPG cost about $8 in Annapolis MD.

I never bothered with a sniffer and all that jazz. I'm of the school that most "safety" devices simply deceive people into being less careful. I ALWAYS closed the valve at the bottle when not in use and it was kept in a locker that drained overboard. A also ALWAYS sniffed with my MK1 nose, yes on my knees down low, before igniting a flame.

I like LPG due to the higher BTU output. I could boil water for my coffee in a couple minutes, my old Origo alcohol stove took 4 times as long at best. Sure alcohol is not pressurized and supposed safer but the open flame is on much longer for a given cooking situation. YMMV that's just what we did.
Good luck. 

[CapnK]

I've got the refill adapter; if you do it "right" (chilling containers down and all that), you might get between 3/4 and full on a refill. At ambient temps, though, I seemed to get more like 1/2 bottle or so.
It *is* convenient to have one, so that you can use it when needed, but as far as the main way to go, my try at it suggests it is not that. :)

I too was worried about the possibility of a 'bang' while refilling, but did some research and what I read suggests that these containers are *massively* overbuilt for their capacity, so I don't think that is much to get worked up about.

Much easier to run a line from a big bottle, when all is said and done. :) And I'm with SailorTom vis a vis the safety requirements - they put the stinky stuff into propane for a reason... ;D

[lastgreatgeneration]

Well that is interesting. Thanks for all of the great replies.

What do you call the adapter that does the bulk container to stove?

I have done my rounds with a double burner origo and a single. Never again! I almost caught my first boat on fire when I overfilled the wick/resivoir. I almost threw the whole setup on fire right into back creek. Wet towel did the trick. I even started ordering the alcohol by the 5 gallon container from Home Depot, still wasn't worth it. Between the smell, the constant refilling and the fuel dries up quick about a week or so. You will find yourself saying " I just filled that"!

I know someone that put in a basic marine propane 2 burner for around $700. I don't want to have to have so many dang fuels on a small boat!

[CapnK]

One other consideration with the refills: if you do that, make ABSOLUTELY sure that the valve (re)seats itself properly when you remove the small canister from the adapter. There was a guy in the anchorage here who had one with a sticky valve which ignited belowdecks, and it turned into a small, hot flaming rocket that wreaked havoc inside his boat - setting him *and* parts of the boat on fire - before he managed (luckily) to get it out of the companionway. He came out of it pretty much OK, and wiser. :) The boat had some good scorch marks.

[CharlieJ]

Make D A M N E D sure of that even on a new bottle. They don't always close when you unscrew from a stove. And store them outside.

In the Bahamas, 2010, alcohol stove fuel was $30 gallon!!

Personally, I still prefer my Kero stove. Although I burn 100% Mineral Spirits. Been using that fuel aboard my boats since the mid 70's and plan to continue :)

[ralay]

Charlie, what kind of cooking vessel do you use on that stove?  Can you put a frying pan on there with the gimbal?  Or does it have to be a little pot or something without a handle?  Have any action shots?

[CharlieJ]

Ralay- I can put most anything on there, from my kettle, to my 4 qt Pressure cooker. I do have to open the pot holder way up to get the wok on. The three prongs rotate inward as the lever is moved

This is a Sea Cook stove I modified from Propane to attach the kero burner. NOT a Sea Swing. I much prefer the mounting and pot holders on the Sea Cook


Couple of shots. First one is n old coffee pot, being used under way. Pic is rotated to level the pot, so you can see the angle.  If I recall correctly, we were sailing across Mississippi Sound

Second shot is the Wok, loaded with shrimp -

[lastgreatgeneration]

Ralay- I can put most anything on there, from my kettle, to my 4 qt Pressure cooker. I do have to open the pot holder way up to get the wok on. The three prongs rotate inward as the lever is moved

This is a Sea Cook stove I modified from Propane to attach the kero burner. NOT a Sea Swing. I much prefer the mounting and pot holders on the Sea Cook


Couple of shots. First one is n old coffee pot, being used under way. Pic is rotated to level the pot, so you can see the angle.  If I recall correctly, we were sailing across Mississippi Sound

Second shot is the Wok, loaded with shrimp -

Hey that's really neat. I noticed something aluminum at bacon sails a while back, I think it was just the gimballed part. If only they made a decent boat kerosene stove. The first boat came with some ancient stove that was kerosene it leaked at every fitting and the preheater turned into a fireball. I chucked it in the trash. Maybe I should have explored a rebuild kit for it. I wonder if there's a way you can gimball one of those pressurized Coleman single burner jobs that have the small tank attached.

[CharlieJ]

Raylay-look at http://www.base-camp.co.uk/ for parts and info. I baked on mine using Pressure  cooker -bisquits, cakes, potatoes,etc and canned meats while at anchor

I know you don't eat meat but still :)

[CapnK]

I cooked on one of the Coleman single burner multi-fuel stoves for a while, thinking a stove which could use gas, kero, mineral spirits, etc... would be a good option, but I noticed that if you use a large pot on them, or just have a pot on there for a long time (pasta, for instance), the fuel canister gets *really* hot. Dangerously so, it seemed to me. For that reason I abandoned the idea. they work great for backpacking/kayaking/biking, where you fire it up for 10 mins to boil 2 cups of water, but beyond that, well, I am not sure they are designed for that type of use.

Optimus makes a real nice multi-fuel stove (Polaris Optifuel) with the tank separate from the burner by a 6-8" fuel line that will burn all of the above *and* use isobutane canisters. It ain't cheap, but it sure is nice. Not sure how or if you could rig it to gimbal. For that, I would look at the old-school Optimus "Roarer" type stove. Though it has an integral tank like the Coleman, the flame distance from the tank is greater so I don't think the heat build up would be as critical.

Force 10 makes a little gimbaled stove which uses 1lb propane canisters, but the pot size on it is ridiculously small, and the whole rig itself is quite tall. I think of it as being more of a "make hot drinks in a blow" stove, than a food making stove for regular use.

[CharlieJ]

Have canned meats on my kero stove. Would likely do the same on a proper Propane- just am a troglodite :

Hot packs meat takes a good while. No probs

Done at anchor in Boot Key Harbor

[lastgreatgeneration]

Hey, I found these stoves that are used in the developing world. "Butterfly" stoves. Take a look.
http://stpaulmercantile.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=73

I'm looking at the two burner. Some pop rivets and some aluminum you could easily fabricate fiddles. Also some bolts and some wing nuts could hold it down. Most of these stoves use wicks instead of pressure. They even have a 14,000 BTU canning model.

Anyways, enjoying the site as always. Sitting at anchor. Oh did anyone see jimmy Buffett at the Boatyard in Annapolis?

[CharlieJ]

That butterfly stove is very much like the burner and tank I have in my stove.  Be very aware- that is a "roarer" burner. The only way to regulate it is to bleed off pressure. Had one originally in mine. the site I posted a link to sells regular Primus burners, that have a needle so the burner can be turned quite low.

I have one of the Butterfly stoves sitting in the shop now that I will be fabricating a gimbal arrangement for, for a friend. Will document the process, but it's going to be several months before I begin.

Two pics- first, the "roarer" burner, then the Primus style

[ralay]

You know Charlie's a legit sailor when you go to his house and all the glass jars in the cabinets have socks on them... 

I'm not in the market for a new stove, but Charlie's stove looks like it'd do the trick. 

[CharlieJ]

Hey now- Thought all the sox were stowed BEHIND the jars :)

[lastgreatgeneration]

That butterfly stove is very much like the burner and tank I have in my stove.  Be very aware- that is a "roarer" burner. The only way to regulate it is to bleed off pressure. Had one originally in mine. the site I posted a link to sells regular Primus burners, that have a needle so the burner can be turned quite low.

I have one of the Butterfly stoves sitting in the shop now that I will be fabricating a gimbal arrangement for, for a friend. Will document the process, but it's going to be several months before I begin.

Two pics- first, the "roarer" burner, then the Primus style

I like the primus you linked to. It does not appear they sell parts not a complete unit. Is the butterfly with the roarer burner the same stove? If not what is the best course of action to find a decent primus? I have noticed that is the choice stove for many small boat sailors. There must be a good reason why.

[CharlieJ]

Yes, the butterfly stove I have in the shop came with a Roarer burner. I replaced that with an adjustable. They interchange

You kinda have to burrow around on the UK site to finds things, but if you will email them questions I've found them extremely helpful

[Sunset]

I don't refill the one pounders anymore, just to many leakers. Like already said above I could only get about half full, following the directions.