Well, ya'll did it

[Captain Smollett]

Last night, I did a little Amazon shopping.  I ordered

Journey of a Hope Merchant (Neal's book; been meaning to get this one for a while)
20 Boats to Take you Anywhere (figured I could stop posting qustions this book basically answers)
By the Grace of the Sea (Pat Henry's book)

(and one on astronomical mechanics so I can finish those cel nav programs).

[oded kishony]

 Mention of the fantastic DANA 24 led me to thinking about John Vigor's
" 20 Small Boats to Take you Anywhere" book.

The boats are ranked by 'safety at sea' as compared to each other. (the DANA ranked 16th of 20 btw)
I've added some information to his statistics including comfort rating and capsize number. What I found curious is that Vigor sometimes has a boat with a higher capsize number (more likely to capsize) rated as safer than another with a lower number. Vigor doesn't get into the details of his safety criteria but I found this interesting.'

Oded Kishony

[Godot]

I wish I had his "Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat" handy; but I left it at my mothers house in RI when visiting over Christmas.  Capsize numbers are not the only criteria he uses (nor should they be) for evaluating seaworthiness.

From memory, some of the 56 or so items he uses in his self evaluation form in the Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat book....

Hull Shape
Number and type of thruhulls
Number of bulkheads
house trunk style (mine slopes and is penalized for it... not sure why)
Size of portlights
type/size of toerail/bulwark
Bridgedeck
Cockpit drains
Lifelines
Existence of bow and stern pulpits
Seaberths
Chart table
Cleats
Turnbuckles
Headroom

Going through some of the items I remember scratching my head and wondering why they would matter when evaluating seaworthiness, as opposed to comfort.  For instance, standing headroom is evaluated as more seaworthy.  I also wondered at the lack of certain items, for instance, hull thickness (although it is kind of hard to judge hull thickness without cutting a hole in the hull... he does provide a rule of thumb formula, though).

On my self evaluation, Godot scored a 114.  I believe his criteria was that a boat under 100 is probably prepared for an offshore passage, and a boat above 130 is probably not worth the effort of preparing.

A good book, by the way.

[oded kishony]

Hi godot,

I've read his "seaworth Offshore Sailboat" also a wonderful book.  I wish his "20 small sailboats....' were more comprehensive with a chapter about how he ranked the various boats, why he chose these in particular and omitted certain others. How to go about ranking a boat you're thinking of buying. What to upgrade to improve the seaworthiness of your craft etc.

I saw an ad for a new book titled something like " another 20 boats that will take you anywhere" (not written by Vigor) Anyone else spot that?

Anyway Vigor is one of my favorite boat writers.

Oded

[Captain Smollett]

I wish his "20 small sailboats....' were more comprehensive with a chapter about how he ranked the various boats, why he chose these in particular and omitted certain others.

I gathered that the 20 on the list was based on selected a number of boats from different design "classes."  Though a number are certainly similar (a number of Alberg boats...   :) :) ), they cover a range in taste and where the compromises were made.

I think the take-home lesson is not the boats that ARE in the book, but the designs that are notably absent.  In other words, I personally would be comfortable with a boat with similar design numbers to any represented.  But, if I were considering a boat completely unlike ANY of the boats in the book, I'd see that as a red flag.

Also, he clearly wanted ones that have made successful offshore passages AND those that he could get owners to make comments for his book.

Just my take.

I have not see that new book, Oded, but I am very interested to see what boats are in there.  Is it loaded with all new, 'modern' designs, perhaps in an effort to offset Vigor's emphasis of older, tested, classic ones?

[Frank]

The Folkboat is really mentioned twice in that book. The Contessa 26 is a folkboat hull with a bigger deckhouse for more cabin room. Capt S....did you mention there were a lot of 'Alberg's' in there...who is he? ;) ; :o :P

[Norm]

Good day all:
The super thing about Vigor's new book, The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat, is the rating system he begins the work with.  It really get's you thinking, balancing the necessary compromises.

Most of the rest of the book is about systems.  For my own use, I'd prefer not to be sailing a floating accessory platform.  My opinion...

Check out a book by John Kretschmer, Used Boat Notebook, in which he looks at 50 old boats with a critical eye.  The book ends with a selection of 10 boats that will take you around the world.  He claims.

It is one man's opinion.  If I'd been called to write the book, I'd have probably picked the same or similar boats.  I wonder how much experience the author has aboard the craft he discusses.

I have not sailed around the world... yet.  I have sailed in a lot of places where world cruisers are frequently seen.  All I can say is, "you'd be amazed at the boats people got to sea in."

A compare/contrast excercise is to look at the boats that keep moving and the boats that make a voyage or two and then stay on a mooring while the owners/sailors work ashore and "fix" the craft.  Little boats go.  Big boats park.

Best regards,
Norman

[CharlieJ]

Something I found really interesting. If you look at the sail calculator-

http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html

And punch in the Folkboat and the Rhodes Meridian 25 (listed as a Seafarer Meridian) and compare the numbers. I'm really amazed at how closely they match up. Makes me even more comfortable sailing our Meridian on the outside considering the renown of a Folkboat offshore.